What do you think the new engine should be? [Poll]

[jayhova]

I'm going to have to fatly disagree about FC being the closest in look and feel. Half-Life 2, hands down, has the most realistic urban settings around, and that much is definitely verifiable from watching videos. Far Cry has some nice rolling terrain and jungle (though I personally feel it's worth pointing out that these tend to be artifically constricting, even if they manage to impressively do this without feeling too oppressive), but it sure doesn't have any urban/indoor stuff worth caring about in terms of premade testing stuff. But all that said, I do think that's a fairly insignificant metric to go by and not, for the most part, worth taking into consideration when picking an engine— not, at least, when there are much bigger things to worry about.

I don't think that discussing HL2 as a possibility has any point to it. If we were to judge on videos I would go with STALKER but as with HL2, STALKER not only does not have an SDK it is still vaporware. Quite simply you can mod a video. Period. Nor do I feel it's possible to judge the look and feel of a game by the video.

 

[gal-z]

I doubt all these graphics are actually used for better gameplay... Games like AA:O and even inf have very reasonable graphics, and the main problem I see you talk about with the current engine is coke can collision, ballistics and alike.

 

[MP_Duke]

True. But I would also add polygon limitation for maps. This is the main reason why I stopped mapping. Every time you try to add some detail, it means your map will be slow. Not to mention the terrain builder is a POS, that slows down even more with the extra triangles. UT just can't handle what I have in mind anymore.
UT2004, on the other hand, 100x more freedom with this

I doubt all these graphics are actually used for better gameplay... Games like AA:O and even inf have very reasonable graphics, and the main problem I see you talk about with the current engine is coke can collision, ballistics and alike.

 

[Logan6]

Found a really good article on Far Cry with 36 awesome pics of the game.

Far Cry Article

Also, a good movie showing off the gameplay and physics of the game.

Far Cry Movie

Infiltration would fit far cry like a glove.

 

[{GD}SolidSnake]

It's up to Sentry Studios, I'll play whatever they choose. I don't care what engine it is. As long as it's playable and fun. I don't go for graphics. I go for gameplay

 

[Logan6]

Well, the graphics are secondary for me. I like the huge maps that can be done, which would allow for vehicles and aircraft. And from the watching the movie, which was demonstrating the gameplay, and the AI, the gameplay looks IMO better than UT. And yeah, of course its up to Sentry Studios what they want to do, Im just trying to get the community interested in what Far Cry has to offer.

What I thought the movie really shows well is the physics in the game, and I love the part where the mercs are repelling out of the Osprey VTOL aircraft. Now that would be awesome in Inf.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Concerning the physics does it work in multiplayer. As far as I understand it is very difficult in UT2K4. In Doom 3 the physics is what is causing all the problems in multiplayer. How well does Far Cry handle it or does it? For example having a stack of barrels fall and roll down a hill in may work well in single player but what about putting that data across a network.

Before anyones says that the barrels don't have to be replicated exactly on each client, they have to plan and simple.

 

[ravens_hawk]

Posted by Logan6

What I thought the movie really shows well is the physics in the game, and I love the part where the mercs are repelling out of the Osprey VTOL aircraft. Now that would be awesome in Inf.

LOL! Half Life (the original) had that, granted the heli had fewer ploys but so what? A lot of those scenes in the trailer looked like scripted events rather than "physics."

Here's my question(s)
A) Do we care about MAC users? If so then afaik UT2K4 is the only way to go to allow them to play INF.
B) Can we get some hard data on what the engines can and can not do. What's a reasonable max poly count per map? What kind of system would it take to run it? How much can we change the code? Can we setup a free aim system? Can we get rid of the coke-can hit detection? If we can how powerful a system do we need to run it now?

And no I don't want to see someone post the system requirements of each system, I know what they are. What I'd like to see is the frame rates (min-ave-max) of the recommended and minimum system of each and some screen shots of what they look like (ie at that particular resolution/display settings) but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the requirements for a lot of these engines are very high to begin with, and modding them will only make it higher.

 

[Logan6]

Posted by Logan6


LOL! Half Life (the original) had that, granted the heli had fewer ploys but so what? A lot of those scenes in the trailer looked like scripted events rather than "physics."

Here's my question(s)
A) Do we care about MAC users? If so then afaik UT2K4 is the only way to go to allow them to play INF.
B) Can we get some hard data on what the engines can and can not do. What's a reasonable max poly count per map? What kind of system would it take to run it? How much can we change the code? Can we setup a free aim system? Can we get rid of the coke-can hit detection? If we can how powerful a system do we need to run it now?

And no I don't want to see someone post the system requirements of each system, I know what they are. What I'd like to see is the frame rates (min-ave-max) of the recommended and minimum system of each and some screen shots of what they look like (ie at that particular resolution/display settings) but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the requirements for a lot of these engines are very high to begin with, and modding them will only make it higher.

As for the events in the movie, I don't think they were scripted. Supposedly, this was just catching the video as someone was playing. As for the engine requirements, from what I've seen, probably at least 2.8 ghz with a good video card to run max features. My computer right now would croak trying to play it. But its probably going to be a while before the next Inf comes out. As for the rest, I would look at Fist's post at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Arethusa]

You realize, Logan, that vehicles can work more or less equally well in FC, Doom 3, and HL2? What you really love about FC is either not the sole purview of FC or not that big a deal to begin with, the one exception being sprawling outdoor environments— and no one even knows how Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 handle these.

And, no, I don't consider UT2k4 to be even worth consideration.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

The thing is do we really need huge landscapes? If SS wishes to expand the size of battles, and I am not arguing about it one way or the other, then map size is important. UT2K$ can handle maps larger than currently made with UT99 but not as large as Far Cry but if there are no plans for larger battles then this is no longer an argument for or against.

As for graphics I take game play over graphics any day but you can acheive some amzing stuff in UT2K4 - pick any Angle Heart map.

Someone mentioned to look at an earlier post by fist_mlrs. There he mentions an extremly important point - netcode. I trust his opinion and the fact is you can't have a multiplayer game without good netcode.

 

[Derelan]

Basically what I'm getting at is that the requirements for a lot of these engines are very high to begin with, and modding them will only make it higher.

So what you're basically saying, is that you don't want to have to buy anything more than a Radeon 9200?

 

[geogob]

A _VERY_ valid point was brought up by somone in the thread about the latest news from Sentry Studios...

Unreal Tournament 2004 is cross platform. So is Doom 3. Half Life 2 won't be, Stalker won't and Far Cry is definatly not.

In my personal opinion, any engine not supporting either mac or linux (or not planning to in short term) should be ruled out. For most PC user that point is rather silly... but for mac and linux user it's very important.

I strongly support cross platform engines. Historically, Sentry Studios did too (whether it was coincidal or voluntary, I don't care) and I hope this will continue.

 

[Derelan]

A _VERY_ valid point was brought up by somone in the thread about the latest news from Sentry Studios...

Unreal Tournament 2004 is cross platform. So is Doom 3. Half Life 2 won't be, Stalker won't and Far Cry is definatly not.

In my personal opinion, any engine not supporting either mac or linux (or not planning to in short term) should be ruled out. For most PC user that point is rather silly... but for mac and linux user it's very important.

I strongly support cross platform engines. Historically, Sentry Studios did too (whether it was coincidal or voluntary, I don't care) and I hope this will continue.

Yeah, what more can Mac and Linux users ask for than to have the best game ever, playable on a lesser-used OS?

 

[fist_mlrs]

Well, the graphics are secondary for me. I like the huge maps that can be done, which would allow for vehicles and aircraft. And from the watching the movie, which was demonstrating the gameplay, and the AI, the gameplay looks IMO better than UT. And yeah, of course its up to Sentry Studios what they want to do, Im just trying to get the community interested in what Far Cry has to offer.

What I thought the movie really shows well is the physics in the game, and I love the part where the mercs are repelling out of the Osprey VTOL aircraft. Now that would be awesome in Inf.

as long as the sdk is not much more then a toolset to import new models, and the scripting stays within the "change our vallues, but don't think about coding new features" i don't see why inf should look at crytec. farcry was an option and maybe will be an option again, incase they finaly get a real sdk released and fix the serious problem the netcode still has, but right now its not worth a serious luck imo.

 

[ovw]

As mac user the single most important issue for me is not poly count, system performance, portability, its whether or not the gods at sentry studios will here my cries...nay, pleas(!) that INF remain cross platform. Doom3? UT2k4? I voted for 2k4 out of habit, but if they go with either of those engines I'll just have to leave enough of a balance on my credit card for it.

As for you PC users YOU NEED people like ME, after all I help keep your hit percentages up.

OVW

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

No matter what I think of Macs they should be taken into consideration. As for Linux sorry but that is far to important. At minimum the new engine must be able to run as a game server under Linux.

 

[Arethusa]

Who said Half-Life 2 won't run on Linux?

 

[ravens_hawk]

So what you're basically saying, is that you don't want to have to buy anything more than a Radeon 9200?

No, I just know that the minimum requirements go beyond what a few INFer's have, and the recommended requirements are high for most INFer's. I just think that modding the engine will throw what's required to make it playable well beyond what most people have.

Doom 3 plays on MACs? Afaik it runs on 2000 and XP only.

As for the events in the movie, I don't think they were scripted. Supposedly, this was just catching the video as someone was playing. As for the engine requirements, from what I've seen, probably at least 2.8 ghz with a good video card to run max features. My computer right now would croak trying to play it. But its probably going to be a while before the next Inf comes out. As for the rest, I would look at Fist's post at the beginning of the thread.

A) Just because they're in-game doesn't make them any less scripted. And they still look scripted. (Maybe its just the frame rate chugging at that point but it looks like only certain barrels move or explode as in most games, and I doubt the helis do anything near intelligent.)
B) You'd rather count on a wait of some years for the next version of INF so you can upgrade your machine than have it out now on something you might be able to play with?
C) I said hard data not speculation (no offence meant fist_mlrs)

 

[Philophobos]

A) Just because they're in-game doesn't make them any less scripted. And they still look scripted. (Maybe its just the frame rate chugging at that point but it looks like only certain barrels move or explode as in most games, and I doubt the helis do anything near intelligent.)

Just thought I'd chime in here:
I've played Far Cry quite a bit, and just about everything that should be rendered physically is. I can't remember a single barrel that didn't react as it should. In fact, I can't really remember anything not reacting as it should, physically speaking. The overall implementation of physics in Far Cry is excellent, far above anything I've seen in any other game.

Anyway, back to your discussion