Welcome To A New America!!!!! (For the better even)

[Plumb_Drumb]

I hope Obama can do good things while he is in office, but he's made some hefty promises and I'll be shocked if he delivers on half of them (or, even more so, half of what people expect from him). I'll be interested to see where this "change" he is always talking about comes from, so far he has stuck with the status quo (in terms of his cabinet).

That complete energy independence in 10 years plan is just NOT going to happen, heh.
I'm sure in some ways it's possible, but I'd bet it isn't going to work.

Actually I walk, ride my bike and take the bus when it's appropriate, so I do my part to minimize a footprint, but I've been thinking of hooking a weedwhacker engine to my bike for those long hauls.
I hear you can get over 250 mpg doing that, lol. Serious mileage (and supposedly it's fast).

 

[SlayerDragon]

Approval ratings are just another statistic, but if you look at the reasons why the numbers come up the way they are, I think that is where the real changes can happen.

Hell, even Congress has terrible approval ratings right now. It's not just the Bush administration.

http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm List of approval poll results from various sources. Doesn't look too good, and it's been that way for a while.

So, again, people are not happy with the way our government is running the show but nothing changes because no one does a damn thing about it. Most people think "what can I do?" and maybe there is some truth to that. It does seem hopeless when you have to spend your time working to pay your bills and you don't have much in the way of resources to dedicate to making sure you're listened to.

 

[Molgan]

Most people think "what can I do?" and maybe there is some truth to that. It does seem hopeless when you have to spend your time working to pay your bills and you don't have much in the way of resources to dedicate to making sure you're listened to.

Nah, people have been working their asses off for generations and still had time to make a lot of incredible stuff happen. =)

 

[kiff]

I've been thinking of hooking a weedwhacker engine to my bike for those long hauls.
I hear you can get over 250 mpg doing that, lol. Serious mileage (and supposedly it's fast).

it's weird, last week I saw 2 dif ppl ride/drive one of those past my house. looked kinda goofy, but if everyone actually did that, our oil problems would be solved, for the most part...

 

[B]

That complete energy independence in 10 years plan is just NOT going to happen, heh.
I'm sure in some ways it's possible, but I'd bet it isn't going to work.

Actually I walk, ride my bike and take the bus when it's appropriate, so I do my part to minimize a footprint, but I've been thinking of hooking a weedwhacker engine to my bike for those long hauls.
I hear you can get over 250 mpg doing that, lol. Serious mileage (and supposedly it's fast).

Now that GM is getting help from the Fiat company you're allready half way there. Their biggest engine is something like a 2.4 liter V5.

 

[SlayerDragon]

Nah, people have been working their asses off for generations and still had time to make a lot of incredible stuff happen. =)

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. This is a matter of people's perception of their ability to affect change in the government today. Anecdotal, I know, but most people I've talked to over the years believe that nothing they say or do will matter because it's in the hands of people with more money and power than they have; people that have no interest in what they need or want.

Again, it's a matter of perception and I don't think that perception is necessarily true.

 

[SinShiva]

while i did not vote (was having problems at home), i'm certainly an obama supporter. there is one thing that should be noted. bush left a mess for obama to clean-up, that much is certain. don't be surprised, when new information is handed to obama that requires him to sit in the countries before pulling out the troops he pledged to bring home so quickly. while i am sure it is of his immediate goals to do so, we can't account for the information that is not public domain. i just don't want to see people quickly jumping on the 'broken promises' bandwagon.

that said, i am glad to have him in office.

 

[ilkman]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. This is a matter of people's perception of their ability to affect change in the government today. Anecdotal, I know, but most people I've talked to over the years believe that nothing they say or do will matter because it's in the hands of people with more money and power than they have; people that have no interest in what they need or want.

Again, it's a matter of perception and I don't think that perception is necessarily true.

One of the only ways for a person to make a difference is to run for office themselves which isn't practical for a lot of people. Other than that who is going to care what you have to say? The government is so big and so full of 'power people' that one little person from nowhere'sville isn't going to do much.

With the information age and the internet you can get your voice heard by a lot of people, even the president. Your opinion is not stifled. That may not matter though because the person pulling the strings to actually do something is vastly more powerful and rich than you. So while you can have your say it doesn't mean anything.

You do need money and power to achieve anything today. Look who they give credence to when it comes to political opinion tv, movie and music stars. They're some of the most ignorant when it comes to politics.

However, every now and then someone manages to break through and, as an individual with limited standing, can make a difference like Martin Luther King. Its rare though, especially in this day and age.

I think a lot of the power the average citizen has is in the mob. By yourself you're nothing, but if you can get a mob together you'll be heard.

 

[ilkman]

Let's not forget that the **** hit the fan 2 years before dems even overtook congress!

So? And in the time they had power they haven't done anything earning them a much lower approval rating then the much maligned Mr Bush. I didn't say they caused the problems. I am pointing out that they don't seem to be to capable of fixing them or rather too quick to fix them.. Sorry, I had a twitch. woop! there it goes again.

 

[Molgan]

I think a lot of the power the average citizen has is in the mob. By yourself you're nothing, but if you can get a mob together you'll be heard.

Exactly, and that's a good thing imo. The idea that one person can step up and make a change is not very realistic or even democratic, and it's not safe. To make a change you need to find other people who share your opinion, and if this opinion grows strong enough a change can be made. That's the power of the people.

 

[Underscore]

Everyone whines and moans about Bush, but what President has ever been liked much, if at all, during their Presidency? I'd say the people that appreciate the President's work just shift around depending on what party they are, what position they take on certain issues, what kind of personality they have, etc. I think it's probably safe to say that any President who has an inordinately high approval rating is probably not doing things that are in the best interest of the country.

So hang on a moment, how do you justify that? Can you explain exactly how it follows that if someone is popular, they must be doing evil things?

 

[SlayerDragon]

Exactly, and that's a good thing imo. The idea that one person can step up and make a change is not very realistic or even democratic, and it's not safe. To make a change you need to find other people who share your opinion, and if this opinion grows strong enough a change can be made. That's the power of the people.

You said it for me. This is pretty much the same as I wanted to reply.

 

[Vagabond]

I'm quite elated to see that some sensible people do exist on the internet. As for the others... Well, I can offer you a battle you have no chance of winning, rather an anti-climax after what you've just survived.

EDIT: Don't buy hype, it's expensive.

 

[BillyBadAss]

I'm quite elated to see that some sensible people do exist on the internet. As for the others... Well, I can offer you a battle you have no chance of winning, rather an anti-climax after what you've just survived.

EDIT: Don't buy hype, it's expensive.

I am hoping the battle will look something like this.

[SCREENSHOT]http://i36.tinypic.com/4hrwuo.jpg[/SCREENSHOT]

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

I know it will be a failure

Careful when you say things like "I know" about stuff that hasn't happened yet.
It tends to make you look like a retard.

I know his ideas aren't really American

Are you deaf, blind or both?
Don't answer that.

Which ideas are you referring to? What, if not American, would they be instead?

 

[ilkman]

Exactly, and that's a good thing imo. The idea that one person can step up and make a change is not very realistic or even democratic, and it's not safe. To make a change you need to find other people who share your opinion, and if this opinion grows strong enough a change can be made. That's the power of the people.

And this is why we need the 2nd amendment and why it was even included. As long as you have a populace that can defend itself and fight back then the government will always be at the whim of the people IE "by the people and for the people". Once the populace loses the ability to defend itself or fight for itself those in power will quickly take over. It's happened throughout history.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

So hang on a moment, how do you justify that? Can you explain exactly how it follows that if someone is popular, they must be doing evil things?

I wasn't saying they were evil, in fact if you read my post the word "evil" doesn't even appear! Amazing!

What I DID say is that they probably weren't doing things that were in the best interest for our country, including doing nothing or doing things that seem to matter but don't.

while i did not vote (was having problems at home), i'm certainly an obama supporter. there is one thing that should be noted. bush left a mess for obama to clean-up, that much is certain. don't be surprised, when new information is handed to obama that requires him to sit in the countries before pulling out the troops he pledged to bring home so quickly. while i am sure it is of his immediate goals to do so, we can't account for the information that is not public domain. i just don't want to see people quickly jumping on the 'broken promises' bandwagon.

The way I see it, Bush left Obama the cleaning up that he already started. Troop drawdowns have already been taking place in Iraq. If that continued and Iraq becomes free (for the most part) of American combat forces, Obama will get the credit for all of it.

As far as the "broken promises" thing goes, I think it's only really possible that most of his campaign promises will never come to fruition.

 

[Zur]

Wow, this topic is surreal. Eight years later and people are still bickering about how bad the other side is. Whatever your stance is, if you don't care about the rest of the world don't expect good service when going on holiday abroad. Contrary to popular belief, us "foreigners" aren't interested in another war.

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

The way I see it, Bush left Obama the cleaning up that he already started. Troop drawdowns have already been taking place in Iraq. If that continued and Iraq becomes free (for the most part) of American combat forces, Obama will get the credit for all of it.

Just because Bush may have started drawing back doesn't excuse the fact that he and his cronies started the whole mess.

As far as the "broken promises" thing goes, I think it's only really possible that most of his campaign promises will never come to fruition.

This is true of every president. Ever.

No president has ever been able to accomplish or get started more than a couple of the things which they tried to promise during a campaign. At least during a single term.

That's just politics. It has nothing to do with one's competency for instance.

 

[haarg]

Eight years later and people are still bickering about how bad the other side is.

Eight years after what? People have been bickering about the same things for as long as two sides have existed.