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Weapons

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament' started by Hunter, May 13, 2014.

  1. Hunter

    Hunter BeyondUnreal Newsie

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    What weapons or types of weapons to people want to see? e.g. Sniper or Lightening Gun or both?
     
  2. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    I gave it some thought, and the weapon set that makes sense to me is the following - some of it won't sound right off the bat, and there's a little bit of a shakeup in there, so be patient and I'll explain the thought process behind it!

    1: Shield Gun (starting weapon)
    2: Link Gun (starting weapon)
    3: Bio Rifle
    4: Shock Rifle
    5: Ripper
    6: Minigun
    7: Flak Cannon
    8: Rocket Launcher
    9: Lightning Gun
    0: Redeemer

    Shield Gun
    The first weapon is a given - it must be a melee weapon that allows the user an increased degree of mobility within the game environment - it has historically always been the case and a movement based tool as a starting weapon is a good cornerstone to work from. I elected for the Shield Gun as historically it has broader functionality over the Impact Hammer - though that extra shield ability is a contentious one. Both the primary and secondary fire draw from the same ammunition pool, which simply slowly recharges over time. A notable departure from the UT2Kx variety, I believe both primary and secondary fire should be useable at the same time - though it comes with the exceptional cost of rapid drain on your ammo pool, and the inevitable wait before the weapon becomes valid again.

    In a fairly rare design decision, the primary fire should incorporate all of the flexibility of it's predecessors, so it's less of a weapon and more of a tool with a fair amount of nuance - primary fire is the same charging , high damage attack we all know, but when fully charged it can knock power-ups from opponents and deflect incoming rockets. The shield component needs to change - the UT2Kx version allowed a player to be too defensive and artificially prolonged matches more than it should, particularly in the case of duels. Instead of a perfect shield, the player should be able to take a limited number of hits or a smaller number of hits from radius damage (damage value itself irrelevant) before the shield becomes useless - I'd propose a system where the shield has a number of visible tiles, each of which gets depleted in turn on impact, but will come back over time (consider a hexagonal formation, with a central hex tile and surrounding hex tiles as an example). Using the tiled system, the shield is largely redundant versus rapid fire weapons and weapons with a damage radius, but effective against single shot weapons, particularly the Lightning Gun.

    Link Gun
    This is part of the big shake-up. The Link Gun has always been a mid-slot weapon, and the starting weapon has otherwise always been the Enforcer or Assault Rifle. The trouble with the Enforcer and Assault Rifle is that their primary fire modes have always been redundant - the Minigun variations offer better rates of fire, and the Shock Rifles have offered better damage per shot and more flexibility. The Assault Rifle was only really useful for it's very limited pool of grenades, which in turn were made redundant by the Flak Cannon and Rocket Launcher. In both cases, the weapon was used best akimbo, where it became more dangerous - but this means killing another disadvantaged player in order to obtain it, and doesn't change the fact that the weapon isn't providing a role that isn't already maintained by other weapons in game.

    Given that the weapon is essentially redundant and often ignored, why include it in the first place? I decided the Link Gun was the best option to move into this slot due to it's use and behavior. In regular deathmatch, it is still a basic rapid firing weapon at heart, though usually not favoured over other weapons due to lower reliability at range. At closer quarters it does become considerably more dangerous - which is what you surely want in a starting weapon, as it encourages a bit of aggression. Additionally, the weapon has good applications in team games thanks to the linking ability, allowing newly spawned and disadvantaged players to 'gang up' on better equipped aggressors. In certain team games (AS/VCTF/ONS/WAR) is has already been included in almost every spawn point weapon locker anyway due to the ability to heal vehicles, nodes and potentially objectives.

    The Link Gun's functionality should basically remain unchanged - a rapid firing projectile weapon with fairly all-round stats, and a high damage short range beam that can heal certain objects. I'd like to see the UT99 link beam 'sawing' mechanic come back, as this encourages learning some technique for higher level play. I'm unsure exactly how the weapons should link, as I'm neither a fan of the UT2Kx variation nor the UT3 one, though I lean towards UT3.

    Bio Rifle
    No introduction needed, and I wouldn't propose much in the way of changes from it's UT3 counterpart. The only changes I would like to see are in the projectile behaviour; I'd like to see the big blob being broken up into smaller blobs if hit with weapon-fire in mid flight (as this just feels right to me), and for blobs to respond a little more to physics - for example being pulled and thrown around by the Shock Combo Explosion.

    Shock Rifle
    This weapon is intrinsic to UT and needs no changes - you cannot have UT without it.

    Ripper
    This is the other part of the shake-up - the Ripper hasn't made an appearance in UT outside of the original game but has remained a fan favourite for many (and is a source of ire for others). The core concept of the Ripper is in itself not a problem, and I see it is a perfectly viable new mid-slot weapon. The Ripper primary must have a fairly low rate of fire, but offer a moderately fast, linear moving projectile with a high damage output, but only on direct hit. The projectile will bounce once on contact with world geometry and be destroyed on subsequent contact. The headshot capability should remain - but it should not apply to bounced projectiles which should apply around two-thirds the damage of a direct hit.

    Minigun
    It's had a few names, but the Minigun is exactly what we know it to be. I'm considering that this weapon should be simple in behaviour, contrasting with other weapons, and have no alternative fire mode.

    Flak Cannon
    Another weapon needing little or no adaptation.

    Rocket Launcher
    The three-barreled variant from UT3 and UT2Kx is the direction to take, and should probably incorporate all features from it's predecessor. The grenade launching feature may want some additional work to make it more viable in combat, as it was fairly unused in UT3 save the occasional chipping up onto a low ledge.

    Lightning Gun
    This is one of those divisive ones, but as I see it the Sniper Rifle and Lightning Gun are largely functionally identical, so there is little to debate in that regard. UT99s sweat by the Sniper Rifle, but there is really no reason to other than nostalgia that I can see. The Lightning Gun's design and implementation was simply more 'Unreal' - twitching corpses and flaming neck joints are the delightful hallmarks of this weapon and I'd like to see them return. I'm on the fence as to whether the Lightning Gun should splash like it did in UT2Kx, but it might be nice if it could jump between players who are linked with the Link Gun.

    Redeemer
    The classic superweapon which needs no changes.
     
  3. Al

    Al Reaper

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    I like ^
     
  4. WGH

    WGH New Member

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    Not always. It's pretty common in TDM to give Enforcer to teammates without weapons.
    UT2004-style chain linking is better, IMHO. People standing together to gain more damage per second never used anywhere except for healing vehicles/nodes outside active combat. Chain linking, however, can be used to give more power to teammate that is in more advantageous position (e.g. closer to the enemy).
    Also, do you remember how awesome were AS-RobotFactory matches with well-organized teams? Link chains spanning across half of the map... Oh, memories.
     
  5. Nevzat

    Nevzat Member

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    Link gun= Enforcers are necessary link gun primary too powerfull to be starting weapon as long as secondary dont bend i dont care

    Minigun= secondary should be faster fire rate with more spreading slightly more damage then primary

    Ripper= 3 possible option with primary

    1 keep it like orginal

    2 faster fire rate less bounce

    3 slower fire rate more bounce

    and secondary should remain same


    Rocket Launcher= still prefer original ut version

    Lighting gun= i dont hate it but i want sniper rifle too with powerfull sound and non annoying tracer or why not combine both, Lighting rifle bullet with lighting effect on it
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  6. Princess_Die

    Princess_Die Always Out Numbered... Never Out Gunned

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    Starting with the UT3 weapons which have been considered by many to be the best balanced set. These are mostly tweaks to provide better balance to the vehicular game types (assuming there will be vehicles) but maintains the fine weapon balance for DM/TDM/etc.

    Translocator (Start CTF)

    Same as UT3 but you would be able to launch the destination module with the Impact Hammer like in UT1.

    Impact Hammer (Start)

    Reduce self damage for full charge impact jump from 50 down to 33. 50 damage is too much to much to risk hammer jumping to the goal in CTF/Greed in most situations. Also, reduce the charge up time of primary slightly.

    Secondary is a continuous rapid burst of the piston that would not have any charge up time. It would do some damage to opponents and vehicles but would serve to knock them back. Using the secondary immediately prior to charging the primary would decrease the primary charge up time.

    Link Gun (Start)

    I like ambershee's idea for the LG being a start weapon. I originally had the Assault Rifle in the slot but it just seems redundant.

    Primary functions the same as UT3 but the linking feature would work the way it did in UT2004. In UT3 the linking feature is not utilized as much as it should be. Most often when you try to link with another player by moving next to them they move away from you. Changing to the UT2004 style will provide better visual feedback to players and also allows for linking to be done from safe areas (e.g. from around the tree at the central node in Primeval.) Also it sounds really cool when the sound effect decreases in pitch when additional links are made.

    Secondary is slightly less accurate as the beam wanders until you get a hit.

    Flak Cannon

    Secondary projectile arc would be tweaked so you don't have to aim at your enemies feet like in UT3.

    Shock Rifle

    Same but boosting feature increased for teammates like in UT1.

    Ripper or Ripjack

    The spammy nature could be reduced by decreasing the ammo amount and pickups and by also reducing the number of times the primary projectiles will deflect. Secondary would fire an exploding disc that could launch team mates.

    Stinger

    Same as UT3 but the secondary would provide greater pushback against opponents on foot and greater damage to vehicles. It is hugely satisfying to knock a player off an elevated area of the map next to the goal (e.g. the goal platform in Lost Cause in Greed matches.)

    Rocket Launcher

    The time from fire to explode for grenades would be increased slightly to provide more bounce time.

    Lightning Gun

    The bolt would fork to provide some splash damage and it would be possible to get a double head shot. Also provides more damage to vehicles than UT3 sniper rifle.

    Redeemer

    It would be possible to have up to two Redeemers in your load out like UT1 so the patient camper can provide his/her enemies a double tap of nuclear mayhem. Maintain the large shape so it is easy to see opponents carrying the weapon.

    AVRiL

    Nerfed slightly because there would be other AV weapons in the game (see below).

    If there are spider mines in the game, the secondary laser can still control them but you have to point the laser at the trap to lock the mines in on the laser. This would prevent spider mines from going random places when teammates are using AVRiLs nearby as often happens in UT3.

    Tweak the ability to control other teammates rockets so it is more effective.


    Ion Painter


    Good for vehicle games and large ONS/WAR maps. Would be more effective than the Redeemer on maps like Torlan.


    NEW WEAPONS:

    Acid Launcher

    More or less the same as the Bio Rifle against enemy players on foot but increases damage to vehicles and provides continuing damage for 30 seconds if the vehicle isn't healed (which stops the corrosion process.) Acid pools on the ground provide less damage than the UT3 Bio goo to players on foot but more damage to vehicles. Causes vehicles to smoke as the acid eats away the metal.

    Anti-Vehicle Magnetic Grenade Launcher (Trident)

    Vehicle games need an intermediate AV weapon to fill the void between the close range Flak and the full range AVRiL. The AVRiL is overpowered against the manta and viper in the intermediate range. The Trident is a heavy weapon that would fire farther than the flak secondary shells. It would load similar to the RL in that it would load 3 magnetic grenades that would attach to enemy vehicles, nodes, core, objectives, turrets, etc. 3 grenades could be launched in rapid fire before the weapon would reload. It has to fully load 3 grendades before it can be fired again. Default ammo would be 6/6 max with pickups being 6 grenades. Grenades would explode after ~20 seconds if not detonated by the secondary fire button.


    NEW SUPERWEAPON:

    Singularity Engine


    Think of this a shock rifle super weapon. The primary fire of the weapon is a single "black hole singularity" projectile that moves across the map unimpeded by enemy fire. The weapon HUD auto tracks the black hole allowing the single shot secondary beam to "detonated" the black hole. Once detonated the black hole expands in radius and suck all the players and vehicles with its range into the void as it collapses. Survivors that remain outside the event horizon during the colapse do not take damage and are unscathed.

    If the black hole projectile hits BSP or mesh it would detonate and the weapon would be unloaded (similar to the way the Redeemer is when the nuke explodes.)
     
  7. Vaskadar

    Vaskadar It's time I look back from outer space

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    I feel that there could be more weapons, but within similar role categories (area denial, finisher, long-range, etc.) placed into different maps or game modes.

    Enforcers should make a return, except with a more interesting secondary

    Shield gun should make a return. Impact hammer was meh.

    Shock Rifle
    As much flak (heh) as I could receive for suggesting that they look at UC2 for some sources of inspiration, I really think they could do something similar to sky mines for the shock rifle.

    Rocket Launcher should keep its UT3 modes. Excellent all-around weapon.

    Link Gun - Primary fire was way too slow in both UT2k4 and UT3, should be much faster than it was. Secondary fire seemed reasonable.

    Ripper - should have an interesting alt-fire, like a charge-up or something. Should deal lots of headshot damage.

    Grenade Launcher - I feel this should make a return with a remote detonated alt-fire

    Minigun - Spinup for secondary fire or some kind of interesting alt-fire, it was a really boring and uninteresting weapon in UT, UT2k4, and somewhat less bland in UT3. Perhaps some kind of explosive projectile secondary?

    Flak - Somewhere between the UT2k4 Flak and the UT3 Flak

    Bio Rifle - More area denial possibilities with the weapon, methinks. Its primary didn't have enough splash. I feel it could have little globlets break off from bubbles that the player shoots into instead of breaking them.

    Lightning gun is way cooler than a Sniper Rifle. It shouldn't have splash, but should hit nearby targets ala arcing.

    I'd like to see a weapon that fires projectiles that follow where the player's aiming.
     
  8. N1ghtmare

    N1ghtmare Sweet Dreams

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    I would like the impact hammer to be the first choice because I believe it fits the style and mood of the game much better. A bunch of angry mining equipment in a brutal bloodsport. You can keep the shield (and balance it), but one thing I always thought UT stood out from other multiplayer shooters was the theme of bloodsport.
     
  9. KaL976

    KaL976 *nubcake*

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    Oh hell no... being knocked around by 'helpful' team mates is a PITA.
     
  10. Princess_Die

    Princess_Die Always Out Numbered... Never Out Gunned

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    Rocket boosting on Mazon Fortress FTW!
     
  11. Vaskadar

    Vaskadar It's time I look back from outer space

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    Maybe make the weapons thematically gritty and dirty, like tools? I mean, that would make them all more interesting.
     
  12. Rambowjo

    Rambowjo Das Protoss

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    I think the ultimate compromise between the shield gun and the impact hammer, is to simply allow the player to use the UT3 impact hammer alt mode by charging up with left mouse button, and then switching modes while charging, by tapping right mouse button. Much like how you make spiraled rocket formations.
    Right clicking while not charging should simply put up a shield. I do very much prefer the impact hammer from UT3 though. Maybe the shield should be more physically based, like a repulsion field, rather than just being an absorb shield like in UT2k4.

    To add to this, one of my favourite things to do on UT3, was to hop on pubs and dominate the whole server, just by rushing around with the impact hammer. Nothing beats that.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  13. KaL976

    KaL976 *nubcake*

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    Rocket boosting is a different thing altogether.
    The shock rifle shoots instantly for as far as line of sight allows.
     
  14. KaL976

    KaL976 *nubcake*

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    We used to play shield gun only at fragbu on some of the smaller maps & yes noob-bashing with it is hilarious. :lol:
     
  15. Arnox

    Arnox UT99/2004 Mod Crazy

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    Personally, if I had it my way, I would keep ALL the weapons in UT, UT2004, and UT3 BUT have one base set that is always used as default. What weapons are in that set though is, of course, up for debate. This way, people aren't restricted AND they'll have more base weapons that they could work off of for mods.

    It also keeps with the theme of this game. If we're going to make THE Unreal Tournament, then lets have Unreal Tournament weapons. All of them.

    And BTW, I think people are bored of the Minigun because they never really hit that sweet spot. Don't mean to be a Serious Sam fanboy here but the Minigun in SS3 is utterly perfect and satisfying. It just proves you can definitely make a weapon as generic as a minigun incredibly awesome if you really want to. It's simple, just make the weapon look and sound BADASS. In fact, make ALL the weapons like that.
     
  16. Rambowjo

    Rambowjo Das Protoss

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    If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. Including all weapons is a bad idea.
     
  17. Wail of Suicide

    Wail of Suicide Member

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    I had an idea earlier that the Ripper could have a charged fire secondary that acted like a sniper rifle. Might be crazy, although I kind of like it as a means of both bringing back the Ripper and turning the Sniper Rifle into something more unique than a rifle.
     
  18. Arnox

    Arnox UT99/2004 Mod Crazy

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    Why? If we don't add all of them to the base package, people are just gonna mod in what they want anyway. Might as well make it official.
     
  19. Hunter

    Hunter BeyondUnreal Newsie

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    to much work, any why would Epic who are releasing it from free want to include everything under the sun. It takes out the chance for the community to release mods and mutators to alter weapons. Takes away some of the fun too.
     
  20. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    Having all the weapons is pointless - there's far too much overlap between weapon roles and it introduces a ton of redundancy that isn't worth the development effort. I'd rather see a small, extremely polished and balanced set of weaponry. Let the modders fill in the gaps if they so desire.
     

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