We Americans are scientifically ignorant
- Thread starter Demosthanese
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Rostam said:
At the US Uni I went to (not quite elite) 70% in the postgrad programs were foreingners and in PHD even more...
Rostam said:
I agree and I understand it's caused by the whole system. The US is so much focused on itself. Pupils have to know all the states and their capitols but know little to nothing about the rest of the world. 7 of 10 US americans will tell you, that the US is the best country of the world also they have never left it. (just like the Chinese students I talked to in China who insisted that Chinese food was the very best in the world although he never had anything but chinese food and a single Hamburger at MC Donalds
)I saw a statistic that foreign news is ranked on #20 just after news on aliens (which was 19) in the US and I tend to believe it. A few days after 9/11 (when I was in the US) there was hardly any news that the rest of the world evakuated towers, stalled all kind of airtraffic and hunted terrorists etc. as well - instead CNN was broadcasting melodramatic but pointless stories all day, that 8 year old Pauly was searching for her daddy the firefighter... it took me phonecalls of relatives and friends to actually recognize (although I was watching the news all day). You can't blame the individual for lack of knowledge if you get fed up with flawed information all the time.
But in Europe it isn't that much better: I.e. when it comes to the continent of Afrika people have little to no dedicated knowledge (black primitive people who fight a war every now and then, Lions and elephants).
Most humans are like sheeps and you can just govern them just like that... sad world
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Yes come up and join us. You will be well educated when you die from the infection because you could not see a doctor.
Thats not true, I saw many reports about african conflicts in the past and present. German and french reporters traveled throught the lands, asking people, victims and so on. Saw many Chechniya reports, from russian and other reporters. Very informative, but you're right of course all that is the tip of the truth, they is so much unspoken, things I have no clue about.Nukeproof said:
Nukeproof said:At the US Uni I went to (not quite elite) 70% in the postgrad programs were foreingners and in PHD even more...
I agree and I understand it's caused by the whole system. The US is so much focused on itself. Pupils have to know all the states and their capitols but know little to nothing about the rest of the world. 7 of 10 US americans will tell you, that the US is the best country of the world also they have never left it. (just like the Chinese students I talked to in China who insisted that Chinese food was the very best in the world although he never had anything but chinese food and a single Hamburger at MC Donalds
I saw a statistic that foreign news is ranked on #20 just after news on aliens (which was 19) in the US and I tend to believe it. A few days after 9/11 (when I was in the US) there was hardly any news that the rest of the world evakuated towers, stalled all kind of airtraffic and hunted terrorists etc. as well - instead CNN was broadcasting melodramatic but pointless stories all day, that 8 year old Pauly was searching for her daddy the firefighter... it took me phonecalls of relatives and friends to actually recognize (although I was watching the news all day). You can't blame the individual for lack of knowledge if you get fed up with flawed information all the time.
But in Europe it isn't that much better: I.e. when it comes to the continent of Afrika people have little to no dedicated knowledge (black primitive people who fight a war every now and then, Lions and elephants).
Most humans are like sheeps and you can just govern them just like that... sad world
The sad part is that we have a whole generation of Arabs/Middle Easterners who are now being raised to specifically hate the US. This IMO is unprecedented and will cause major problems for the US in 20 or so years from now... Prepare your culos.
Psychomorph said:
I'm not talking of reporters or students of politics but the average man in the street. Which average european can tell apart "stable democraties" (that do exist) from dictatorships? Muslimic from Christian countries and which language is spoken?
Which capitol, flag or president do you know by heart?
More than a people speak of Africa as if it was a country - not a continent. (or if they know they don't deem it worth to differentiate the countries)
NTKB said:
Yeah and Bush declared Irak the shining example and speerhead to bring democracy and freedom to the middle east. Just like Nixon declared war on poverty during war against Vietnam
... I still wonder if they were ever naiv enough to believe their own words...
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The lazy American is a stereotype, which would be bordering on racism considering that a good many of us Americans are US-born. Would you say all black people like watermelon? Or all Jews have big noses? It's the media who is too US-centric...since that's where the majority of the worlds' exposure to the US comes from. I mean, you speak as if Europe and the rest of the world isn't doing their part to contribute. You buy our movies, you buy our fashion, you have our food. Here's a tip: if you dont want it, dont buy it.
If you want to play demographics, the typical highschool student is either black, white or hispanic, and lives in a predominately discriminate culture in which options are limited and competition for high-wage jobs is so strict and fierce only the ones born with some advantage are able to get them. Dont believe me? OUR PRESIDENT PASSED COLELGE WITH A GENTLEMANS' C FOR 4 YEARS.
Honestly I dont know why anyone should be shocked at all by any of this. There will be stupid people for all eternity. There will be just-as-stupid people writing bias articles on how stupid people are for all eternity. There will be schooling gaps and dropouts and morons and idiots for all eternity. And while I believe that we should offer what we can for most of these people, I also believe that most of these people lack the drive to utilize what resources they have.
--Harrm
I'm not sure I agree with you on that. I think it is a question of geography. How far do Americans have to travel just to find a different country? In most cases the distances are huge when you compair it to europe. Its not a case of who's better and not but I do think europe as a whole has a more inclusive attitude. Alot of this is brought on by the proximity of other cultures/languages ect. I think america is in a bit of a quagmire with its insular approach to things, and with the beginings of the european union this is also push boarders. It's not a case of euopeans or anyone else being better but its a different way of thinking, and I think the difference is not just at the school level. However with that said how many americans studied one foreign war? Honest question, no sarcasm intended.
It's not just the US and we only have ourselfs to blame.
Yea but the question is do you need to know any, and if so is it a measure of your schooling?
Harrm said:
Nukeproof said:
I think, I pretty much said the same thing. But from my personell experience: US citicens know less from abroad than people from other contries I met - it's certainly a stereotype but it's kind of true:
- An American student on campus asked my Australian mate why he spoke english so well... (after he just said he was from australia)
- One guy insisted that all "Porsche" are manufactured in Detroit...
- My roommate, who's minor was politics knew 1 foreign prime ministers in total, where I knew about 12 (not studying politics at all)
- The guestmother of an exchange student asked him wether we had television and electric power in Germany. He's guestbrother once asked wether this "Hitler" guy was still alive.
- One mate asked me wether I live at east or west coast of germany (and repetitively which "the good guys" during cold war were)
- One US student deemed me totally uneducated since I hardly knew any capitol of any of the US states but she had no clue which countries the EU consists of... (and regarded it as way less important)
I agree the US is so important to the world that everybody on the world will know the important things about it. (Certainly somebody from Lichtenstein will know way more about all the big contries around, than those citizens will know about Lichtenstein). But still, knowing little about the rest of the world is certainly a phenomenen in the US. Few people learn a second (let alone 3rd) language to a decent level at school - which is standard in entire europe, Japan, Northafrica..
An singing the national hymn at school while raising the flag, or including their country into prayers is something that I haven't seen anywhere else. This for example is absolutely inconsiderable in Germany (which was certainly humbled after WWII) - so don't tell me the US isn't self-focused ... caus it is.
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Nukeproof said:
@Harrm:
Of course it is not the americans fault that sometimes such sh!t happens. And by the way I don't eat american food
(viva italia... and teh turks ).It is also have to be said, that so many stuff from U.S. is not the original U.S. trademark. So many directors, styles, scientists, famous people and so on are not originally american. It sounds paradox in case of this topic, but the U.S. consists of the world and all the different nationalities, at the same time that sh!t happens (it's all the media).
And about the economical success of the U.S. it is made by all the firms and corporations from all the world. Where the money is, there were they go, everything else would be economical suicide and the U.S benefits and benefits. Hell Europe made you to what you are
, now say 'thank you' (small joke kinda).
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Harrm, you really have no clue. "You buy our movies, you buy our fashion, you have our food. Here's a tip: if you dont want it, dont buy it."
The only thing in that list that some people outside the US 'buy' are the movies, and using that as an argument is piss poor since movies from other countries are bought just as easily. And most importantly, what the hell does buying goods have to do with ignorance?
Then there is the last bit of your post, claiming there will always be stupid people. Well, whatever the case, even stupid people can learn facts and say them out loud. The fact that they don't know these facts has nothing to do with their intelligence.
One thing I do totally agree with however is that it isn't the fault of any individual for what he knows. Schools suck, media sucks... And they aren't in the position to change anything.
By the way, I like to believe that if fewer people in the US would be so ignorent that mass revolts would be a direct concequence. Same goes for Brittain, Germany, Holland, France and probably every other 'democratic' country on the globe.
The only thing in that list that some people outside the US 'buy' are the movies, and using that as an argument is piss poor since movies from other countries are bought just as easily. And most importantly, what the hell does buying goods have to do with ignorance?
Then there is the last bit of your post, claiming there will always be stupid people. Well, whatever the case, even stupid people can learn facts and say them out loud. The fact that they don't know these facts has nothing to do with their intelligence.
One thing I do totally agree with however is that it isn't the fault of any individual for what he knows. Schools suck, media sucks... And they aren't in the position to change anything.
By the way, I like to believe that if fewer people in the US would be so ignorent that mass revolts would be a direct concequence. Same goes for Brittain, Germany, Holland, France and probably every other 'democratic' country on the globe.
Hell, I didn't even know France invaded Vietnam until after highschool when I did a little light research on the topic for a forum debate. I've learned more about our world through forum flame wars than ever I did in Highschool. "World history" in HS consisted of only the ancient world before America hit the scene. Greece and Rome were minor blurbs while feudal europe was a good 3 chapters.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
That's the not the point: US entertainment sells like crazy. For example, www.BBC.co.uk says iTunes (An American company) first opened up and sold 800,000 tracks in Europe in it's first week. And one of the highest-seeling bands was The Pixies (if you dont know who they are, they did the end song for Fight Club), a US rock band. www.msnbc.com says that last year, Europe gave $32.5 million in online music track sales; which while pale in comparison to US sale figures, is still a huge amount of money. Also, Europe is the largest source for pirated US media in the world.
The US contains Americans. Or so the rest of the world likes to see it that way. I figure, if we take 200 immigrants from another country who are "stupid" and let them live here, we have 200 more stupid Americans.
Nukeproof: I'd like to remind you, that you were in Virginia. Talk to Vlad from VA about it; he lives there.
--Harrm
EDIT:
You're probably right.
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Ignorence and intelligence are 2 seperate things, that's what I was saying. It was a responce to the 'there will always be stupid people' since it doesn't have to mean that there will always be ignorent people.
OK, so US entertainment sells. You're probably very right here, I still don't see your point.
But I see your point here.
Demo, I learned more about vietnam from Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now than I did from school. I didn't even know about what was going on in Korea until MASH, and if it weren't for some classics like El Cid I wouldn't know about a lot more wars and such. Still, the only conflict I know of in the entire continent of Africa is the one in Rwanda. And even that was years after it happened. Granted, I was very young when this all happened but that doesn't mean school should decide to tell nothing about it either.
Edit: I am speaking of my earlier days at school, back when I still thought it was important to get high grades and such. After I found out that there were more important things that I wouldn't ever learn at school I started using the internet to fill gaps. Still doing so, but my problem with school in general will never be resolved I think.
OK, so US entertainment sells. You're probably very right here, I still don't see your point.
I know a few Iranians that scored below average in Iran, but after they went to the US they were the top of their class. And yet, they are dumber now than they were in Iran. So I do like to blame the US education for that. The president taking away money from education and spending it on war doesn't do much good either.
But I see your point here.
Demo, I learned more about vietnam from Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now than I did from school. I didn't even know about what was going on in Korea until MASH, and if it weren't for some classics like El Cid I wouldn't know about a lot more wars and such. Still, the only conflict I know of in the entire continent of Africa is the one in Rwanda. And even that was years after it happened. Granted, I was very young when this all happened but that doesn't mean school should decide to tell nothing about it either.
Edit: I am speaking of my earlier days at school, back when I still thought it was important to get high grades and such. After I found out that there were more important things that I wouldn't ever learn at school I started using the internet to fill gaps. Still doing so, but my problem with school in general will never be resolved I think.
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As far as history goes. Canada is the same as the US except more divided. We tend to view history from the perspective of the province you live in. I have no idea what British Columbia was like before 1990 (when I became aware that British Columbia existed and was, in fact, not a part of Columbia).
MY history lessons centered around Fur Trading, "First Nations and thier subsequent ass raping", followed by the creation of Quebec By Some French King using purely Lumber Jacks and Whores. I got a 90 in that course. And have forgotten everything 4 years later.
We Stand on Guard for thee mon esti.
MY history lessons centered around Fur Trading, "First Nations and thier subsequent ass raping", followed by the creation of Quebec By Some French King using purely Lumber Jacks and Whores. I got a 90 in that course. And have forgotten everything 4 years later.
We Stand on Guard for thee mon esti.
Harrm said:
That's a damn weak argument. The US takes way more smart and highly educated people (especially in science) than anything. I know for sure most german Nobel price winners for the last years actually do their research (and live) in the US, due to better support. US universities try to soak up elite students from all around the globe.
Dumb people are usually a "homemade" problem (in the US as much as anywhere else) falling through the social grid etc. Even if you talk about refugees and immigrants: It's only the best educated and motivated people who will reach and pass the US boarders. (So this is down to Mexicans illegally passing the border unless you refer to those millions of undereducated canadians invading the US
)Harrm said:
I'm quite aware that Virginia is not representative for the entire US and I do know the part it played during civil war (not that it has anything to do with ignorance).
Most US students I met there, were not Virginia residents. (A pretty large share of students is in military service in Norfolk from all around the US)
Just a good one I forgot above: A french girl mentioned, she and her familly were usually having champagne for new years eve back home. An american girl asked in total suprise: "You guys do have CHAMPAGNE in France as well???"
And on copyright violations: Be assured, China is by far the largest offender. You can buy any kind of movies, music or software for about 1$ at allmost any corner in the big cities. Even those shops that look like a regular videostores will solely sell illegal copies - in fact it's close to impossible to buy 'legal' stuff overthere... Multiply this with 1.3 billion people and you get the picture... (and the chinese are even proud of the 'perfect' copies they can produce of almost everything)
Do'nt get me started on China's Bootlegging. Move distirbutors give a bunch of factories in China the knowledge and technology to print DVDs and pay them nothing so they can sell them at Movie stores for 1000 percent profit over here. What did you expect they were gonna do? Of course they bring over cousin Cheng to print god knows what else during the off hours of the night so they can make ends meet. And then they blame Bit Torrent. Suck my Balls. [/RANT]