UT-nerfed

[edhe]

Deepershade, stfu.

Manifold, don't let the haters get you down. I completely agree that the way to fix the learning curve (or make it less unfriendly to newbies at least) is something the COMMUNITY, not Epic, needs to do. Something you said in your first post which is so true it hurts is that the huge, unending learning curve is the reason we all have been playing the game for so long. The challenge keeps us interested, and there is always room to improve. Well said.

I agree abot the long learning curve, but the game needs to be pitched in such a way that there should be success into building a community, not the other way around. The community should not be building the game and training the players up to the play the game they've built.

There needs to be a good product from the company that has a good learning curve that entices people into communities and clanplay. That's what we need, not same again and chance it.

 

[kafros]

edhe:

I read the thread and it is irrelevant to what I am saying (I know my english sucks but here is another go at it...)

What I AM SAYING IS:

Provided that you have a ranking system (no matter what the ranking mechanish is) and players get levels, THEN being at a specfied level means you get to use a portion of the game mechanics which are appropriate for your level (in terms of weapons, movement)

As an example:

Level 1: Dodge, double jump, wall jump are disabled. You can only use flak, rocket launcher and link.

Level 2: You get Dodge, double jump, minigun, goo

Level 3: You get Dodge + jump, shock

Level 4: You get full movement + all weapons

This leveling example is AN EXAMPLE so dont reply with "oh what about 42 levels like WOW and I would prefer to have the redeemer at Level -23.45".

A final note: A player will be able to create a character of maximum level straight away if he thinks he is ready for it.

Guild Wars (I know it is not an FPS) has this system when you create a character:
1. spend 4-5 playing sessions to get your character to the FULL features level and learn the game while doing so.
2. create a FULL features character straight away and go into the game to have your A$$ kicked.

(see post #40 for my original description - also written in bad English -)

 

[Majik]

Your English doesn't suck.

Anyway, I don't think a leveling system is needed. A thorough tutorial mode would suffice IMO.

 

[Peregrine]

I am all for "dumbing" the movement down.
Dodging is all we need. And please god lose that stupid shield jump crap.
n00b joins a server and he says guys flying halfway across the map and capping in seconds.... yea, they MIGHT stick around... not.

I play ONS and CTF...however with a whole whopping 10 CTF servers out there now, rotating the same 5 maps...it gets REAL old REAL quick.

And OH LOOK there are still 900 UT servers out there. the 2k3/2k4 community has NEVER reached the popularity of the original.

 

[NeoNite]

What the hell? 10 ctf servers? That's horrible!

Right, for UT CTF I'm pinging 554 servers now and 831 players. Course, not all 554 players are populated! But still...

I'm from Central Europe. It's 11 pm now.

Populated server tab says: 391 servers, 2197 players.

Not bad eh. Course, it's only a weekday.

 

[MANIFOLD]

edhe:

I read the thread and it is irrelevant to what I am saying (I know my english sucks but here is another go at it...)

What I AM SAYING IS:

Provided that you have a ranking system (no matter what the ranking mechanish is) and players get levels, THEN being at a specfied level means you get to use a portion of the game mechanics which are appropriate for your level (in terms of weapons, movement)

As an example:

Level 1: Dodge, double jump, wall jump are disabled. You can only use flak, rocket launcher and link.

Level 2: You get Dodge, double jump, minigun, goo

Level 3: You get Dodge + jump, shock

Level 4: You get full movement + all weapons

This leveling example is AN EXAMPLE so dont reply with "oh what about 42 levels like WOW and I would prefer to have the redeemer at Level -23.45".

A final note: A player will be able to create a character of maximum level straight away if he thinks he is ready for it.

Guild Wars (I know it is not an FPS) has this system when you create a character:
1. spend 4-5 playing sessions to get your character to the FULL features level and learn the game while doing so.
2. create a FULL features character straight away and go into the game to have your A$$ kicked.

(see post #40 for my original description - also written in bad English -)

woot@pineconeboy

Kafros: Do you think it would be better to have less instead of more levels? For easier server browsing I mean. Locked, Unlocked, Limited, Unlimited or so.

Anway, I would be happy as sh*t if changes to the game could be set on or off. I think in that case Epic actually would be able to please everybody, and the players would be able to vote by populating/not populating servers.

EDIT: Peregrine, what about boosting the power of the hammer a bit so that FC's could only afford to piston jump one time? I think the shield itself should be a little less protective as well, but last about the same length of time. I think Tweak was talking about this in irc last night and it struck me as a good idea.

MANI

 

[edhe]

Kafros - you're posting in the wrong thread

Your idea has merit for very basic single player campaign stuff, but this is a game where people want to jump in for the fast frag from the moment they buy the game. So it may be an interesting idea to have a 'level up training school' offline to get into the main SP tourney (and maybe unlock online gaming?) but it's not a viable online option, if that was what you intended.

p.s. Piston jumps still need to be there and fun, that's half the fun of a melee weapon. 2k3 put up the damage of the SG jumping and made it almost useless. Maybe just change the dynamics so that you need to fully charge to get a good jump out of it, which would hurt enough and take much more time. Also without a shield to protect them mid-jumps it'll be harder to make full runs like that.

 

[kafros]

edhe - you are right!

I just thought of droping an idea for a "non-nerfed" UT that can also apeal to new comers. I will wait for an appropriate thread and repost it.

 

[shadow_dragon]

I really don't understand these problems with the learning curve. Why does it have to be changed and why does anyone think it will be?
They said it'll be easier to learn how to play. Not that there will be nothing to learn! That would be a little backwards to me.

 

[edhe]

edhe - you are right!

I just thought of droping an idea for a "non-nerfed" UT that can also apeal to new comers. I will wait for an appropriate thread and repost it.

This is a forum man, post your thoughts.. make a new thread if it's a new topic...

I think that's the overall idea

 

[Peregrine]

Kafros, your avatar rocks.

I still don't like shield jumping, at all, period.
I don't think there should be any kind of "trick jump" that puts you AT LEAST 1/3 of the way across the map. It's damn near impoosible to defend. (Not IMpossible, just hard).
Totally ruined a game of Thorns I was playing last night.

So-and-so has the flag!
DUN DUN DUN
Blue team scores.
Yes, just that fast.
Lame.

Yes I am bitter cuz I suck at it, but I think it takes a lot more away from the game then it adds to it...

 

[kafros]

Kafros, your avatar rocks.

tx

Imagine a manta going into the pits......VEHICULAR MANSLAUGHTER...

 

[-AEnubis-]

@Pere: Well, he prolly used booster to do that, and adrenaline is prolly gone in the next UT, so some big trick jumps won't be that devistating.

Both UT2004, and UT had a steep end in their learning curves. Honestly, UT's was only slightly less steep then UT2004, the problem was UT2004's steep spot started way to early in a players development. I can elaborate that if anyone needs, but most of you who played both games enough prolly understand it. There was a lot of late game learning in UT, and there is much less in UT2004, because of everything you need to know to even start to play competatively.

I'm all for the way it was in UT.

All in all though, I think this is a totally secondary factor in what deters any players from playing this game. We do stand to potentially lose new players, that would stick around despite learning curve because of love for sci-fi shooters like this, but won't play because they don't have a system to run it. Just look at Neo-Nite.

Epic pushing hardware to the limits with their new tech is cool and all, but it's damaging to who can play their games. I still play with most of my settings on low, and I have a above average system. Part of that is due to sticking with Nvidia, and gl support in this game is lame, but I digress... You gotta be able to run the game to learn the game.

Bearing that in mind, I think what we lose "to learn" in movement we will gain to learn in weapon proficiency. Remember when rockets were slower, and flak bombs didn't have that sic blast radius? Remember when moving while comboing wasn't necessary, and very difficult to do? I prefer artful shooting to artful movement anyday. Not to mention even if they move the movement back towards UT, it won't be a full revert back to UT. I'm sure we'll still have the wall kick, and if the double jump stays, it'll still be more complex then UT.

The SG can go, but only if the hammer comes back in it's place. I dig the jumping if you gotta pay for it

 

[Peregrine]

Yes, he was adrenalin'ed out.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you said.
I have a middle of the road system and have everything @ Normal. I set it all to LOW for match play.
Sometimes I jack it up to see headlights in ONS.... but @ a big hit.

 

[kafros]

I agree with your point about perfeormance -AEnubis-.

Even ID software with DOOM3 failed to deliver on that aspect (I did not enjoy the game because of the low frame rate in high intensity fights)

Only Valve with HL2 managed to deliver a game that plays well on the vast majority of computers.

I do expect a kidney donation on my part, to get the money to play the next UT

That or buying a next-gen console and "replace" my mouse_keyboard with a controller (I should burn in hell 4 all internity 4 saying that)

Again I am out of context..what was the thread's title?