this should speed up healthcare reform???

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Larkin

Larkin

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dragonfliet said:
It not only works, it is a more effective way of conducting and encouraging business and productivity while increasing profits. I have given examples and EAGERLY await your counter examples.

~Jason
Click to expand...

Dragonfliet, to understand where your argument fails you need to look no further why people create business. I have went over this with you before. People do not create business with the idea of being private, the idea profits, they do it for control and profits and being private. By deleting control and put the business in the hands of their workers you take away their ability to make business decisions and controlling their vision of their company. The failure of a business should be in the hands of the owners. The idea this is the same as the stock market only holds water if it stays the businesses decision to give their workers shares and the shares stay small.(well ok, what I'm about to say happens if a company is stupid in the stock market too.) Sadly,(not like you care) what happens is you put thousands with a tiny percentage together and you get huge percentage and huge control of the company with it. They join the table as a group and make demands on the business that are unrealistic. Regardless. of what happens it will always be a lose of control be it the business does it on purpose like its just stock or by force by the government. I'm a believer that stock is evil and harms business. Profits are not equal to ownership. All public companies are fools. Maybe far to greedy to realize the errors of their ways. Giving up your rights on purpose is very stupid indeed. Giving up your rights and being completely unaware is ignorant.
 
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dragonfliet

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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Larkin said:
Dragonfliet, to understand where your argument fails you need to look no further why people create business. I have went over this with you before. People do not create business with the idea of being private, the idea profits, they do it for control and profits and being private. By deleting control and put the business in the hands of their workers you take away their ability to make business decisions and controlling their vision of their company. The failure of a business should be in the hands of the owners. The idea this is the same as the stock market only holds water if it stays the businesses decision to give their workers shares and the shares stay small. Sadly,(not like you care) what happens is you put thousands with a tiny percentage together and you get huge percentage and huge control of the company with it. They join the table as a group and make demands on the business that are unrealistic. Regardless. of what happens it will always be a lose of control be it the business does it on purpose like its just stock or by force by the government. I'm a believer that stock is evil and harms business. Profits are not equal to ownership. All public companies are fools. Maybe far to greedy to realize the errors of their ways. Giving up your rights on purpose is very stupid indeed. Giving up your rights and being completely unaware is ignorant.
Click to expand...

Except the companies that do this (Southwest, Google) profit immensely. Show me how profit sharing is a bad idea. I don't mean SAY that it is a bad idea. Show me. I have a plethora of studies that show it works, I have examples of how it works; now show me how the workers are lazy and won't work and will run the company in the ground, etc.

~Jason
 
Larkin

Larkin

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You know the reason southwest is turning a profit has nothing to do with that. I know my history of the when it happened and I can assure you that it was the downsizing and the gas break first and the deals with the workers second. It is expected the deals only helped marginally.

I also don't see any proof that Google growth had anything to do with the sharing.

So show me first how its a good idea. Do not bull**** me again with links that talk forever and say nothing conclusive. The document titled 6_11 talks allot about nothing and I mean allot. God, that was allot. Did I say it was allot. I heard statistics but no company names at all. WTF was that about, I don't know. Why you think it means anything? I don't know. All I know it was allot of nothing. Totally pointless. Allot of reading of nothing. Yeah, it was allot. You can't say well companies had more productivity, not saying what the companies are, not saying what they did. No, they didn't do any of that. Here is the companies that have stock options. No, totally not. Just ignore what I want to hear and give pointless stats that mean nothing without context.

Article 23 all is pointless. Drivel that I didn't finish. Got to page fifteen and was like seriously, so, I'm half the way through and so far you told me nothing? This ****ing sucks. I'm so out of here.

The NCEO is not unbiased. The idea they are unbiased makes me sick. Didn't read.

Maybe they did say something, I don't know, don't care, this is the INTERNET. I'm not going to sit here and read a million pages before the goods. I got other things to do. Which reminds me...
 
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Grobut

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Oct 27, 2004
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Soviet Denmark
kiff said:
pff, we have almost as many illegal aliens as Scandinavia has citizens.
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So? i have never claimed the Scandinavian model would be suitable for the USA, just that we're living proof that Socialism can work, and doesen't have to go horribly wrong like in the USSR, and also that Larkin woulden't know what Socialism is if it jumped up and bit him on the arse.
 
Larkin

Larkin

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Grobut said:
Larkin woulden't know what Socialism is if it jumped up and bit him on the arse.
Click to expand...

Denmark I hear is the happiest place on the planet with the highest suicide rate and the lowest patriotism. Happy dudes are weird.

----
I want to clarify my demoralized people remark...

When I said it demoralized people is how it creates equality with the owner of the business with the other people at the society, how this demoralizes them when its reached and how it regulates all aspect of life. There is two goals of socialism when dealing with this subject in my mind. One is ownership of business by the people, the other is equality at the work place and society. This includes all aspects all of them. Pick one, any one, it includes it. Is equality what you want on all aspects? Is it? Do you want equal pay no manner what? Really? Think about that for a minute and be honest with yourself. What is the reason to work hard? Well? Advancement? For what exactly? What is the benefit? If payment is equal what is reason for it? I see no reason to work hard nor do I see any reason to care. Outside of work what do they need to work for? Well? Name something, anything? What? Food?, No. Shelter? No, Land? no, Healthcare? no, Clothes? no, Property? no, What is there to work for? Property is not yours its everyone’s. There is no property. Property is deleted from existence. Remember property is that what is used by the greedy and the self righteous. Its not a tool of equality. In socialism you are not free, but indeed equal, you are slaves of the body of the people. The question is who does this body belong too. Zoom out and see for yourself.

Is that to say you can’t go out and buy a video game sure go right ahead, want to buy some furniture, sure go right ahead. What else, what else, what else… I’m sure there is allot to buy for a while. You think these things will exist and it will be have great freedom with it? Regulations and laws of the land will surely make these things nothing more then simple tools of the people to be ruled, not to be enjoyed. Look around you. How many of those socialist ideas restrict the greatness of the things you enjoy? Well? Come on don’t say well, you see know. Aren’t you guys always complaining about this? Well, aren’t you?

I can't believe we are sitting here and claiming Scandinavia is great. That is a pretty absurd argument. I hear Belgium rules too. I want to be like Belgium. Wait...

Lets just throw at the unbeliever a bunch of countries that have never done anything. That will so win him over. And you call me the dumbass.
 
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dragonfliet

dragonfliet

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Apr 24, 2006
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Larkin, ownership being shared with the employees is not the same as no one owning everything/ everyone owning everything. Also, being compensated based on a more equal basis doesn't mean that everyone gets paid the same no matter what. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

~Jason
 
Larkin

Larkin

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dragonfliet said:
Larkin, ownership being shared with the employees is not the same as no one owning everything/ everyone owning everything. Also, being compensated based on a more equal basis doesn't mean that everyone gets paid the same no matter what. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

~Jason
Click to expand...

The first line you have yet to proof otherwise. The second line I said as an extreme of socialism. I realize that most rational equal basis doesn't mean equal paid, but its HAS been done like that in the past, so its not out of the world to use that extreme. Its a very tiny difference anyway.
 
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Larkin

Larkin

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Lets change the topic...

What do you think Henry Waxman looks like? I say the mayor of whovile. You? If whoville doesn't exist then where did this mother****er come from?

Here is a picture of him for reference.

henrywaxman.jpg
 
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Grobut

Комиссар Гробут
Oct 27, 2004
1,822
0
0
Soviet Denmark
Larkin said:
Denmark I hear is the happiest place on the planet with the highest suicide rate and the lowest patriotism. Happy dudes are weird.
Click to expand...

Lets have a look then.. nope, the WHO says we're way down on the list of suicides, and behind the USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Thease lists fluctuate wildly though, so i woulden't trust them for any real hard evidence of anything.

As for "patriotism", you guys can keep it, it's nothing but trouble..

Larkin said:
I want to clarify my demoralized people remark...

When I said it demoralized people is how it creates equality with the owner of the business with the other people at the society, how this demoralizes them when its reached and how it regulates all aspect of life. There is two goals of socialism when dealing with this subject in my mind. One is ownership of business by the people, the other is equality at the work place and society. This includes all aspects all of them. Pick one, any one, it includes it. Is equality what you want on all aspects? Is it? Do you want equal pay no manner what? Really? Think about that for a minute and be honest with yourself. What is the reason to work hard? Well? Advancement? For what exactly? What is the benefit? If payment is equal what is reason for it? I see no reason to work hard nor do I see any reason to care. Outside of work what do they need to work for? Well? Name something, anything? What? Food?, No. Shelter? No, Land? no, Healthcare? no, Clothes? no, Property? no, What is there to work for? Property is not yours its everyone’s. There is no property. Property is deleted from existence. Remember property is that what is used by the greedy and the self righteous. Its not a tool of equality. In socialism you are not free, but indeed equal, you are slaves of the body of the people. The question is who does this body belong too. Zoom out and see for yourself.

Is that to say you can’t go out and buy a video game sure go right ahead, want to buy some furniture, sure go right ahead. What else, what else, what else… I’m sure there is allot to buy for a while. You think these things will exist and it will be have great freedom with it? Regulations and laws of the land will surely make these things nothing more then simple tools of the people to be ruled, not to be enjoyed. Look around you. How many of those socialist ideas restrict the greatness of the things you enjoy? Well? Come on don’t say well, you see know. Aren’t you guys always complaining about this? Well, aren’t you?

I can't believe we are sitting here and claiming Scandinavia is great. That is a pretty absurd argument. I hear Belgium rules too. I want to be like Belgium. Wait...

Lets just throw at the unbeliever a bunch of countries that have never done anything. That will so win him over. And you call me the dumbass.
Click to expand...

No, wrong, nope, and stop embarrasing yourself.

I am not going to argue this with you Larkin, i have 29 years of real life, hands on experiance with Socialism, i haven't just read about it, i live with it every day.
What expertise do you have? a copy of "Atlas shrugged" and random soundbites from the McCarthy era?

You trying to lecture me on Socialism is a bit like a Pug trying to attack a Rottweiler, it's beyond stupid..
 
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