Yeah, it's been a while since people called the p90 a whore weapon. They've had other guns to blame that on recently 
The AKMS...one last time.
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geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Yes, I can send up to 50 long, slender honeys downrange at a moments notice, each capable of finding the softest spots of the hardest of men.
They are also quite pricey and usually not availible to the average civilian.
They are also quite pricey and usually not availible to the average civilian.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Rostam said:Geo I disagree. The reflex sights give you a huge advantage for all ranges. There is a reason why for clanmatches everybody takes out their P90, AKM, M4a1, M16a4 or RC50
well, I've used my FAMAS for every match in the ILCR (I played every match but 4)
try again
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Rostam said:
asmodeus said:well, I've used my FAMAS for every match in the ILCR (I played every match but 4)
try again
Asmo is right. During the ILCR, my team loadout usually looked like this....
Minimi (no sidearm), PSG1 (M9), M16A2M203 (no sidearm), FAMAS.
During the DTASAL, it's somewhat similar too. In CQB, our snipers might use the M4A1 or the M16A4M203, but that's all. Usually the M16A4 guy ususes irons too.
To be honnest, I sincerly think that a team using only M4 and/or AKM cannot win against a balanced team. The key is having a good balance of everything... if you only use AKM assault rifles, chances are that you'll get raped. Same on large maps when you have a team that only has snipers (even if it's the infamous custom RC50) they have not much chance to win against a balanced team that know counter-sniper tactics.
Of course this is all for organised matches. When you play TDM on public servers, that's another story. Still, I feel that a balanced team has more changes. When the front assault guys have a sniper far behind to cover them as they reload and have a machine gunner to cover and supress their flank, the chances that the team wins are far greater. Sadly not many players think like that in TDM. If they can get more kills faster, they do not care much if their team wins or looses. I've even seen situations where the top player (on kill count) was on the loosing team (who lost like 1:7)... and they say "I WIN!!! AHAHA"... sad sad sad.
Covering fire does not work in INF, as soon as you try it some joker will fire a grenade up your ass or lean and fire killing either you or himself. Since they are going to do that anyway, a weapon with reflex sights, high ROF and power has the advantage. On both defense and offense. I'm glad INF is being changed but I still remember the days in which I would take the RC50 in Dockside, run from behind cover, shoot and run back before the enemy would have time to respon. I would usually hit and kill, but even if I would miss, since I wouldn't die anyway, I would just repeat. Now this tactic can't be used in exactly the same way, but when you are behind a nice corner that stops bullets you can do it with leaning.
So I'm rambling again but really alot of people do go from whore weapon to whore weapon. And that is what my 'black' list I mentioned earlier was based upon.
So I'm rambling again but really alot of people do go from whore weapon to whore weapon. And that is what my 'black' list I mentioned earlier was based upon.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
I have to desagree with you on the "Covering fire does not work in INF" comment. Of course, when you do covering fire with an m4, I won't blame you if it doesnt work.
People aren't affraid of dieing, which is why they are playing games of course but because of that they will not take cover when somebody is shooting. Nine of out ten times when someone is on a road and taking fire they will go to kneel and fire back and not sprint to nearest cover.
Now you can take a minimi and fire it at the spot where the enemy took cover for whatever reason and keep them down, but they will not stay down. They will wait just an instant for you to stop firing, they will get up and fire back. This really isn't a disagree/agree question, as long as people rather have you dead than stay alive themselves covering fire makes as little sense as taking cover.
Now you can take a minimi and fire it at the spot where the enemy took cover for whatever reason and keep them down, but they will not stay down. They will wait just an instant for you to stop firing, they will get up and fire back. This really isn't a disagree/agree question, as long as people rather have you dead than stay alive themselves covering fire makes as little sense as taking cover.
Why does everyone follow the same naive tendancy to justify thier choice weaponry...geogob said:
Look, if you feel all that surpressive fire consists of is firing at a small region of space, using the larger ammo capacity to prevent an enemy moving into it, more power to you. Some of us would like to see a more useful implementation of covering fire. Any broader application of area denial in infiltration can sadly be done with any weapon. Just shoot the guy first, it's quite simple.
Also, whoever uses what weapon in ICLR is entirely irrelevant. This community focuses far too much on the weaknesses of weapons instead of the strengths. The silly notion of balance by weakness goes straight out the window once someone figures out how to use the RC50 like a shotgun from the hip or a P90 like a sniper rifle.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
Just for the record, that absolutely not what i consider supressive fire to be. Firing continuously in an area to make sure no one passes there is stupid... even with 200 rounds belts. That will get you kill very fast.
Why i think the m4 is not a good weapon for supressive fire is personal to me and you might dissagre. For a suppressive fire role, I think the M16 with M203 launcher or the G3 are much better suited. But I guess you are right, you could deny an area with any weapons, but supressive fire or cover fire is not necessarely area denial in my book. Or then again, I might be mixing some of the vocabulary up... It's not like I got any real formations on such tactics.
As of my point about ILCR weapon was simply to say that while using various type of weapons, it was easy to win against team using only so called "whore" weapons. If the fact that we used various weapons in various roles on the same team actually played a role in this is another question. Maybe the others didn't have your experience in using the RC50 as a shotgun or the P90 as a sniper rifle
heheEDIT: On rostam comment... to that I have to say I agree. To some extent that's why I like the setting ODIE had for a while on the EAS server... when you died, you could be our for about 2 minutes some times! Getting killed was really horrible both for you (waiting) and for the team. I think I ducked out of danger and crawled away of enemy fire more often then ever with those settings. Your life really counted since it's not as easy to win an EAS game alone as it is to win a DTAS match alone... and I'm not even talking about TDM here. Of course, no one else seemed to like those settings. They just wanted to play they way you just describe.
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I dunno, I've been using the good ol' M16A2 (and yes, the bullets you monkies) to great effect lately ... I think if you can shoot, you can shoot just about any gun, it all comes down to the player. Blame it on the guns all you like, I suppose, but I guess that's just how I see it.
Grenades are different, I'll admit. What's this custom RC50 you speak of Geo?
Edit: JESUS, quintuple insta-posted.
Grenades are different, I'll admit. What's this custom RC50 you speak of Geo?
Edit: JESUS, quintuple insta-posted.
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geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
I lump them all together, simply because the only way to prevent someone from taking shots at you or teammates in infiltration is to prevent them from occupying a location where they can do so. This is usually by 'persuading' them not to enter (or lean into) such a region of space, either with the knowledge of you previously occupying a position in a similar space or through more... direct means. This is obviously done with positioning with the intent to already be ready for a shot, for example, the unmoving guy behind an advance.
The application of a SAW for these situations is desireable because it's a fantastic platform of destruction capable of overpowering fire, that nobody in thier right mind would want to exchange individual fire with once they know it's there.
In inf, of course, it's basically just a high-mag capacity rifle with a few deliberately added disadvantages. Given inf's loadout system and accompanying 'balance', I wouldn't deem it wise to 'fix' the m249 just yet... but I digress.
For 'supression' to work, this implies that the target knows that the SAW is both in range and that they are still alive enough to make the concious decision to stay out of the way. Another rarity in inf, usually most targets die the moment after coming under fire (or, the shootee dies from retaliation). Sometimes without wizzybullet sounds or other indicators, the target often does not even know they are under fire. The influx of grenade launchers makes it that much more likely that anyone who manages cover will die anyway.
This leads me to the conclusion that supressive fire is pretty much dead. Most of inf play anyway seems to be corner-rounding ambushing, which is pretty much impossible to cover or supress. Don't you love maze maps?
In light of this, I don't understand what your reasoning is that the G3 is better than the M4 for what you consider 'cover' applications. The M16 I can understand, simply because it has increased options for making people dead.
The application of a SAW for these situations is desireable because it's a fantastic platform of destruction capable of overpowering fire, that nobody in thier right mind would want to exchange individual fire with once they know it's there.
In inf, of course, it's basically just a high-mag capacity rifle with a few deliberately added disadvantages. Given inf's loadout system and accompanying 'balance', I wouldn't deem it wise to 'fix' the m249 just yet... but I digress.
For 'supression' to work, this implies that the target knows that the SAW is both in range and that they are still alive enough to make the concious decision to stay out of the way. Another rarity in inf, usually most targets die the moment after coming under fire (or, the shootee dies from retaliation). Sometimes without wizzybullet sounds or other indicators, the target often does not even know they are under fire. The influx of grenade launchers makes it that much more likely that anyone who manages cover will die anyway.
This leads me to the conclusion that supressive fire is pretty much dead. Most of inf play anyway seems to be corner-rounding ambushing, which is pretty much impossible to cover or supress. Don't you love maze maps?
In light of this, I don't understand what your reasoning is that the G3 is better than the M4 for what you consider 'cover' applications. The M16 I can understand, simply because it has increased options for making people dead.
geogob
Koohii o nomimasu ka?
It's not a question of reasoning at all... it simple in game experience that thought me that. I'm really at the point where I'm close to remove the M4 of my loadout list.
Of course this may change in the future of INF when better wounding will be implemented. In real life it might be more effective to get enemies wounded than dead on the ground. Since nobody as to take care of wounded soildiers in INF, well there not much point in wounding. So when I shoot someone, i want him to drop down and stay there. The G3 does a better job at that then the M4.... that probably one good reason I see.
Of course this may change in the future of INF when better wounding will be implemented. In real life it might be more effective to get enemies wounded than dead on the ground. Since nobody as to take care of wounded soildiers in INF, well there not much point in wounding. So when I shoot someone, i want him to drop down and stay there. The G3 does a better job at that then the M4.... that probably one good reason I see.
Yay, do it. There are so many weapons that are actually FUN to shoot, the M4 and cough some others have no place in your loadout
ecale3
Sniper - May be harmful to your health.
rostam you are so anal .
I find i am just as capable with the FAL as with the M4, and with the MP5 (both 40 and A2) as with the P90, and the M16 (A2 and A4 although the A4 is my favorite for the ladder sight and suppressor) as with the AK etc. Hell i'm even good with the Minimi (not as good as geo though).
The only weapons i have real problems using are the shotguns, because i'm a little more to the point than the weapon. I think the constant complaints about "whore weapons" is silly, especially since i have fun using all those weapons i just listed off. Also the AKM's novelty has started to wear off, i've been seeing much more variation as everyone goes back to their previous favorites. The last three times i've played there were one or two AKM's on the whole server.
. I find i am just as capable with the FAL as with the M4, and with the MP5 (both 40 and A2) as with the P90, and the M16 (A2 and A4 although the A4 is my favorite for the ladder sight and suppressor) as with the AK etc. Hell i'm even good with the Minimi (not as good as geo though).
The only weapons i have real problems using are the shotguns, because i'm a little more to the point than the weapon
. I think the constant complaints about "whore weapons" is silly, especially since i have fun using all those weapons i just listed off. Also the AKM's novelty has started to wear off, i've been seeing much more variation as everyone goes back to their previous favorites. The last three times i've played there were one or two AKM's on the whole server.