Sounds like a lot of these whiners are noobs...
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I agree with PGR And Jubei and i think the posters idea was well intended but he is full of S_it.... rangers inu2xmp could and often did kill from long range their were actully two types of rangers those with low ping the MYU crowd or those with high ping depended on your ping as to what way you played. If you had a low ping you could duel with gunners and it was very well balanced but if your ping was high you were in trouble against anyone.my point you ask? Ok with this beta ranger has no sniping distance it is nerfed his pistol does not work correctly nerfed,his smoke nades don;t smoke nerfed,the rest is about usless so what is he left with? the gunner in this beta is faster has stronger than u2 weapons and that is the problem in u2xmp you paid the price to play gunner you were slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww now it is like they want everyone the same speed ...bah the poster is full of crap he did not post his system specs his pings and he did not talk about dueling with anyone so he could be spawn killing or a LPB just hosing peeps...boo hiss.
I bet my butt that all the vets talking about this beta know what they are talking about cause i played with most of them.
I bet my butt that all the vets talking about this beta know what they are talking about cause i played with most of them.
headwire said:
omg you have to be joking. this post was so ridiculously stupid that i had to get on here and post. the ranger is fine, except for the range of the rifle. also, you should be complaining about trying to fight techs as a ranger, not gunners. techs have that long distance shotty with lockdown, gunners have nothing except homing rockets. In any case, this will all be fixed in the patch. Until then.. ADAPT TO CHANGE
UTXMP is not the same as U2XMP. That doesn't mean it's "unplayable" as alot of children would like to say, it just means it's different. When things are different, you have to adapt to be any good. It was proven long ago that the earth was not the center of the universe, and as such neither are any of us. Don't expect a game to be built around you, or expect it to be just like U2XMP. Close, yes. Replica, no.
In all respects, I think the game is really fun as is. There are bugs that need to be fixed, but all this talk about balance is just garbage. Rangers and techs move faster than gunners, and techs still get a one shot kill with a couple of their weapons. The change in movement (causing you to wait a beat longer to dodge than in U2XMP) gives rangers a HUGE advantage over the slow gunner. Anytime I've ever faced a ranger, I've always been kept on my toes if they had any idea how to use their class. Of course I'm not going to tell you the winning strategy, that would be counter-productive
All I've done is practice until my eyes bleed in these couple of weeks I've had UTXMP, and I've gotten used to the game and like it even more than U2XMP. Smoother FPS, betters looks, and a chance for the game to get the audience it always deserved. Would be nice if that audience hurried up though. I can only kill [BBF] members so many times before I fall asleep in my chair.
In all respects, I think the game is really fun as is. There are bugs that need to be fixed, but all this talk about balance is just garbage. Rangers and techs move faster than gunners, and techs still get a one shot kill with a couple of their weapons. The change in movement (causing you to wait a beat longer to dodge than in U2XMP) gives rangers a HUGE advantage over the slow gunner. Anytime I've ever faced a ranger, I've always been kept on my toes if they had any idea how to use their class. Of course I'm not going to tell you the winning strategy, that would be counter-productive
All I've done is practice until my eyes bleed in these couple of weeks I've had UTXMP, and I've gotten used to the game and like it even more than U2XMP. Smoother FPS, betters looks, and a chance for the game to get the audience it always deserved. Would be nice if that audience hurried up though. I can only kill [BBF] members so many times before I fall asleep in my chair.
![[LNS]Jubei](/data/avatars/s/40/40116.jpg?1424422863){kind=avatar}
i'm sorry but if knowing how to use you're class means i can only shoot with my pistol when the damn pistol itself wants to shoot or when i'm in sniper mode and i want to switch weapons quickly and i'm still stuck in zoom with my shock rifle
then you need to go and play nintendo
then you need to go and play nintendo
are you kidding? The secret to using the pistol when you want to use it is simple. Ready?
CLICK THE LEFT MOUSE BUTTON
Maybe it's a shame you can't empty your entire pistol before you blink in UTXMP, but big deal.
The zoom bug is a bug which will be fixed, but considering it would only take you a split second to right click to unzoom before going off on your flurry of weapon changes, all I see is cry cry cry.
I'll leave the nintendo realm to you since UTXMP is obviously beyond your grasp.
CLICK THE LEFT MOUSE BUTTON
Maybe it's a shame you can't empty your entire pistol before you blink in UTXMP, but big deal.
The zoom bug is a bug which will be fixed, but considering it would only take you a split second to right click to unzoom before going off on your flurry of weapon changes, all I see is cry cry cry.
I'll leave the nintendo realm to you since UTXMP is obviously beyond your grasp.
If the dodge pause was fixed I think all around movement for all classes would greatly improve. The speeds of the classes I think are fine. The sniper range needs to be fixed. The pistol rate needs to be upped. The rockets could use some lowering (personal opinion though). The shotgun needs tweaked. The power seems right, the spread and distance seems off. In other words, there is still work to be done. And saying there is nothing wrong with this BETA is retarded. It wouldn't be a BETA if there was no problems. I'm happy a new player has taken enough liking to the game to make a post such as that, but not having any prior experience from u2xmp really gives you no credibility to comment much on the intricacies of the mod thats based off the very game you've never played. Comments from new players are valuable, but for other reasons. Oh and criticisms are welcome, but when you come to a new to community it's not polite to call everyone noobs thats experienced in the game the mod is based off of. Deffinately not in the good idea book.
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Maxx said:
So new players to the game shouldn't have input?
That's brilliant. The more I hear "KEEP IT THE SAME AS U2:XMP" the more I realize that it's a small, devoted, selfish bunch who want to keep FMI bound to the shackles of a sub-200 person playerbase.
Think about it - U2 XMP WAS SOLD IN STORES. That's a helluvalot more advertising right there than UT:XMP has received.
The bottom line is that people have to play this gametype, and LOVE IT in order to keep playing. If it's exactly like u2xmp, then most likely, the same sub-200 person player base will be it's only audience.
I think the "troll" was just commenting on the fragging-system, and not delving into "the intricacies". Granted, he called people who can't play with the beta classes noobs (because they are trying to play U2:XMP and not UT:XMP) and IIRC it's the mostly that small core of U2XMP "VETS" who are the first to yell noob. So the troll is experience fragger yelling noob right back at you.
"KEEP IT THE SAME FOR THE LOYALISTS"
"MODIFY IT TO GAIN MASS APPEAL"
You go figure, now. Ya hear?
-chu
p.s.
good work FMI, great changelog so far.
p.p.s. don't make me come back and school GPK and PRG again
Damn Three Letter Acronym people."zak is the only gunner who ever gave me trouble"
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hey chu, while i agree with some of your points (specifically the fact that newer players should have a voice, and I especially agree with the "keep same for loyalists / modify for mass appeal" argument), there are quite a few crucial things that you are overlooking when examing u2xmp's playerbase.
1st, u2xmp wasn't exactly "sold in stores." Unreal 2: SE was sold, but it was virtually impossible to get ahold of. The special edition was released to a very, VERY limited amount of places in very limited supplies. The version of XMP that came with U2:SE was also unplayable unless it was patched (could not get a master server list, even if the master server was up). The day after U2:SE went gold, there was a hotfix specifically for those few who did buy it. There were also alot of install problems and CD recognition problems if I recall correctly.
What I'm saying is that maybe around 5% of all the people who did play U2:XMP actually bought U2:SE. Everyone else who played it either: 1. had the original U2 discs, 2. went out and bought U2 Single Player, or 3. just simply downloaded a crack. U2XMP was barely advertised at all anywhere other than at BU, and at its peak it had maybe 500 people playing simultaneously. I'd estimate the amount of individual players to be over 5000 easily. That's nothing short of a phenomenon.
The playerbase then died out for ALOT of reasons. No master server being the first and foremost (If you can't find a server, you can't play the game). No future support from a tragically deceased developer would rank pretty high up there too. Without a doubt, there were still things that U2 XMP needed tweaked and added when Legend got hosed. These things would never come to fruition after Atari swung the axe. Honestly, there was a niche competitive community ready to explode if U2XMP just got a little more polish.
The "vets" are not one of the reasons of xmp's playerbase declining. If anything, the vets are what kept the game going for a full 8 months after the master server breathed its last breath; and a full year after legend entertainment was canned. There were tournaments and ladders, and there were pickup games nightly. The more the "vets" played, the more everyone came to appreciate the balance that is so talked about in this thread and on the forums.
These are the same people that kept playing the game through all of its problems, and loved much more about it than they didn't. Something about a game that was always insanely fun and rewarded teamwork. No class or weapon was severely overpowered, every thing had a counter, and teamwork > all. It was balanced. Not 100%, but it would have been if Legend was still around.
The only other community I can really compare it to is the Unreal 1 MP community. I think anyone from that community would agree that comparison is a huge compliment.
Anyways, rant over. Sumnation: U2XMP community was damned from the start, but it still managed to get quite a bit done. Vets are here because they loved the game and want to see it thrive. Constructive criticism is all I see for the most part, and compared to other communities, the amount of noob bashing seems pretty scant. The vets didn't kill u2xmp, they did the exact opposite. If u2xmp was allowed to reach a finished state, if it was ever extensively advertised, and maybe even released on its own, who knows what could have happened to the community.
FFS ENOUGH TYPING HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
1st, u2xmp wasn't exactly "sold in stores." Unreal 2: SE was sold, but it was virtually impossible to get ahold of. The special edition was released to a very, VERY limited amount of places in very limited supplies. The version of XMP that came with U2:SE was also unplayable unless it was patched (could not get a master server list, even if the master server was up). The day after U2:SE went gold, there was a hotfix specifically for those few who did buy it. There were also alot of install problems and CD recognition problems if I recall correctly.
What I'm saying is that maybe around 5% of all the people who did play U2:XMP actually bought U2:SE. Everyone else who played it either: 1. had the original U2 discs, 2. went out and bought U2 Single Player, or 3. just simply downloaded a crack. U2XMP was barely advertised at all anywhere other than at BU, and at its peak it had maybe 500 people playing simultaneously. I'd estimate the amount of individual players to be over 5000 easily. That's nothing short of a phenomenon.
The playerbase then died out for ALOT of reasons. No master server being the first and foremost (If you can't find a server, you can't play the game). No future support from a tragically deceased developer would rank pretty high up there too. Without a doubt, there were still things that U2 XMP needed tweaked and added when Legend got hosed. These things would never come to fruition after Atari swung the axe. Honestly, there was a niche competitive community ready to explode if U2XMP just got a little more polish.
The "vets" are not one of the reasons of xmp's playerbase declining. If anything, the vets are what kept the game going for a full 8 months after the master server breathed its last breath; and a full year after legend entertainment was canned. There were tournaments and ladders, and there were pickup games nightly. The more the "vets" played, the more everyone came to appreciate the balance that is so talked about in this thread and on the forums.
These are the same people that kept playing the game through all of its problems, and loved much more about it than they didn't. Something about a game that was always insanely fun and rewarded teamwork. No class or weapon was severely overpowered, every thing had a counter, and teamwork > all. It was balanced. Not 100%, but it would have been if Legend was still around.
The only other community I can really compare it to is the Unreal 1 MP community. I think anyone from that community would agree that comparison is a huge compliment.
Anyways, rant over. Sumnation: U2XMP community was damned from the start, but it still managed to get quite a bit done. Vets are here because they loved the game and want to see it thrive. Constructive criticism is all I see for the most part, and compared to other communities, the amount of noob bashing seems pretty scant. The vets didn't kill u2xmp, they did the exact opposite. If u2xmp was allowed to reach a finished state, if it was ever extensively advertised, and maybe even released on its own, who knows what could have happened to the community.
FFS ENOUGH TYPING HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
Thought I'd stop by really quick before I took off... (no idea when I'll be back to read anything else... depends on what goes down tonite, lol).
Chipmunk, I believe you didn't fullly get what chu::LOB:: said, but it's all good.
When I typed my original post, I was only talking about one thing - being able to kill with any class effectively. THat's it. I wasn't talking about balance needs/changes, how U2xmp was, what people did when they played U2xmp... no. I said this is UTxmp, not U2xmp. All I know is, that when I log onto XMP and play... I kill effectively with ALL classes. At this point, since I know how to actually *Play* the mod (and not just frag) I use Gunner the least; and no, I have no problems disposing of Gunners (as I said in the first post).
To be honest, most of my friends who I have introduced to this mod as well *ALSO* have no problems killing with each class in UTxmp. What does this mean? It could mean a couple of things.. but that's not my place or job to actually take the time to 'discuss' it. All you have to know is that it is QUITE possible to kill effectively with any class in this mod, not just GUnner. You can't just hop into this mod thinking that just because you have 'U2xmp experience' that's supposed to stop *ALL* new XMP players from coming into the mod and showing that they TOO can kill with the best of 'em.
YOu may not know it, but not all new players are 'noobs'. THey may be 'noobs' to the XMP concept, yes... but dont get it confused. A noob at XMP doesn't mean they are noobs to FPS games. You'd be surprised how many new XMP players there are that can flat-out frag with the best of them. It wouldn't surprise me if MOST new XMP players are coming directly from UT2k4. And I hate to say it, but UT2k4 is much faster paced than UTxmp or U2xmp. Yes, I didn't *play* U2xmp really, but saw plenty of videos and watched in-demos to see the gamespeed. The mod died off too quickly before I could get a chance to get into it. FMI has given me a second chance to see what I missed.
*Edit* My point is about gameplay being slower is that new players coming in from UT2k4 will notice the difference in speed right away... and most will adapt to combat quite well, after they actually learn the classes and weapons of course. Most people will agree - it is easier to hit a moving target going 50 mph/kph than one going 100 mph/kph for example. That goes for real life as well, not just games. *Close edit*
Now if you had a favorite class in U2xmp and you see that in UTxmp they are not exactly the same, you have 2 choices. YOu can either ADAPT and re-learn how to use the same class... or you can just glance at the class and say that it's useless and stick with gunner. But I'll go ahead and tell you this though... if you choose not to adapt, we (the NEW players to XMP) will definitely do that for you. WHen we (new xmp players)see the 3 classes for the first time, we have no preconcieved notions on 'HOW they are supposed to be played'. We only see 3 UNIQUE instruments of DEATH. Like I said before, you just need to take the time to learn how to fight with each class in UTxmp. That has NOTHING to DO with how/what/why/where or who was in U2 xmp.
For those U2 'vets' that simply cannot get it in their heads that Gunner is NOT the only 'instrument of death' in this mod, just know that there will be lots of NEW XMP players coming in who do NOT share that same idea. In fact, most of what I see online are Techs anyway... but I wont even get into that now.
Let me also take this opportunity to clear up something. There's a popular myth on these forums where people think that just because your a U2xmp vet, it somehow makes them immune to being defeated in combat, yet alone from so-called XMP noobs. Not all veterans of ANY kind are good, lol. It just means they played the game longer. EVERY GAME has veterans, that's nothing new. And in EVERY FPS GAME that I've played there are basically 2 types of players. The 'Elite Rambos' who are sent to seek and destroy and then there are the support players who use other skills besides incredible combat skills, to help achieve the goal of the team. U2xmp was no different. THere will always be a few STANDOUT players - and then there's everyone else.. which are the 'norm'. Just because you are a 'vet' does not mean somehow you are an experienced fragger, lol. Just means you know what to do with the artifacts and a new XMP does not.
For those of you who I see complaining that 'Gunners are the only viable option for killing', we know exactly what category you fall into as well. I mean, hell... I'm a so-called noob and I dont even think that about gunners, lol. Truly good players always adapt, regular guys always have trouble doing that. That's pretty much how it is in real life, not just FPS games. There are always a few standouts and then there's everyone else...
Hope you understood what the post was about now - using all the classes effectively in combat. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyways, do what you must... for now I must prepare for the 2004-2005 festivities. It has been a long, interesting year and must be celebrated as such.
Enjoy the New Year and may it bring all of you a promising year in 2005. And to FMI, I wish you much success in the year to come and I hope your finished product is far better than any of us imagined. That is all
Chipmunk, I believe you didn't fullly get what chu::LOB:: said, but it's all good.
When I typed my original post, I was only talking about one thing - being able to kill with any class effectively. THat's it. I wasn't talking about balance needs/changes, how U2xmp was, what people did when they played U2xmp... no. I said this is UTxmp, not U2xmp. All I know is, that when I log onto XMP and play... I kill effectively with ALL classes. At this point, since I know how to actually *Play* the mod (and not just frag) I use Gunner the least; and no, I have no problems disposing of Gunners (as I said in the first post).
To be honest, most of my friends who I have introduced to this mod as well *ALSO* have no problems killing with each class in UTxmp. What does this mean? It could mean a couple of things.. but that's not my place or job to actually take the time to 'discuss' it. All you have to know is that it is QUITE possible to kill effectively with any class in this mod, not just GUnner. You can't just hop into this mod thinking that just because you have 'U2xmp experience' that's supposed to stop *ALL* new XMP players from coming into the mod and showing that they TOO can kill with the best of 'em.
YOu may not know it, but not all new players are 'noobs'. THey may be 'noobs' to the XMP concept, yes... but dont get it confused. A noob at XMP doesn't mean they are noobs to FPS games. You'd be surprised how many new XMP players there are that can flat-out frag with the best of them. It wouldn't surprise me if MOST new XMP players are coming directly from UT2k4. And I hate to say it, but UT2k4 is much faster paced than UTxmp or U2xmp. Yes, I didn't *play* U2xmp really, but saw plenty of videos and watched in-demos to see the gamespeed. The mod died off too quickly before I could get a chance to get into it. FMI has given me a second chance to see what I missed.
*Edit* My point is about gameplay being slower is that new players coming in from UT2k4 will notice the difference in speed right away... and most will adapt to combat quite well, after they actually learn the classes and weapons of course. Most people will agree - it is easier to hit a moving target going 50 mph/kph than one going 100 mph/kph for example. That goes for real life as well, not just games. *Close edit*
Now if you had a favorite class in U2xmp and you see that in UTxmp they are not exactly the same, you have 2 choices. YOu can either ADAPT and re-learn how to use the same class... or you can just glance at the class and say that it's useless and stick with gunner. But I'll go ahead and tell you this though... if you choose not to adapt, we (the NEW players to XMP) will definitely do that for you. WHen we (new xmp players)see the 3 classes for the first time, we have no preconcieved notions on 'HOW they are supposed to be played'. We only see 3 UNIQUE instruments of DEATH. Like I said before, you just need to take the time to learn how to fight with each class in UTxmp. That has NOTHING to DO with how/what/why/where or who was in U2 xmp.
For those U2 'vets' that simply cannot get it in their heads that Gunner is NOT the only 'instrument of death' in this mod, just know that there will be lots of NEW XMP players coming in who do NOT share that same idea. In fact, most of what I see online are Techs anyway... but I wont even get into that now.
Let me also take this opportunity to clear up something. There's a popular myth on these forums where people think that just because your a U2xmp vet, it somehow makes them immune to being defeated in combat, yet alone from so-called XMP noobs. Not all veterans of ANY kind are good, lol. It just means they played the game longer. EVERY GAME has veterans, that's nothing new. And in EVERY FPS GAME that I've played there are basically 2 types of players. The 'Elite Rambos' who are sent to seek and destroy and then there are the support players who use other skills besides incredible combat skills, to help achieve the goal of the team. U2xmp was no different. THere will always be a few STANDOUT players - and then there's everyone else.. which are the 'norm'. Just because you are a 'vet' does not mean somehow you are an experienced fragger, lol. Just means you know what to do with the artifacts and a new XMP does not.
For those of you who I see complaining that 'Gunners are the only viable option for killing', we know exactly what category you fall into as well. I mean, hell... I'm a so-called noob and I dont even think that about gunners, lol. Truly good players always adapt, regular guys always have trouble doing that. That's pretty much how it is in real life, not just FPS games. There are always a few standouts and then there's everyone else...
Hope you understood what the post was about now - using all the classes effectively in combat. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyways, do what you must... for now I must prepare for the 2004-2005 festivities. It has been a long, interesting year and must be celebrated as such.
Enjoy the New Year and may it bring all of you a promising year in 2005. And to FMI, I wish you much success in the year to come and I hope your finished product is far better than any of us imagined. That is all
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your friend said:
You're still a lame troll.. Not to mention, you have yet to to make valid logical point, past presenting yourself as a moron troll.
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Just ignore the entirety of my post Chu, and pick out things. It makes it easier with the knee-jerk reactions
.and Daft...you're dead on
The point of this mod was not to create three classes that kill effectively. It was to bring our favorite game into a new medium so we can keep playing. Thats it. FMI didn't bring it over to change it, they brought it over in order for the game we love to survive and possibly thrive.
It's supposed to be.
L
You're not quite getting it. The purpose of this mod was to enable the current and past players of u2xmp to keep playing the game they love. To be able to have a team to support. To put it into a medium that will be around for a long time. The BONUS to bring our game to ut2k4 was the possibility of getting some fresh blood into the game, among other things. For those players out there that want something different the standard FPS/DM/CTF. Let FMI do their best to bring u2xmp over to ut2k4. When their done, you'll hopefully be able to share in the game that the "vets" love so much. As of now it is not quite the same game. Granted it is similar and they are doing a phenominal job of getting close...it's just not done yet.
PRG ...
I thought his last post was much more civil and lacked the e-penis posturing the first post stank of. I can actually respond to it with out my blood boiling.
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fireball
Reach out and torch someone
Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought UTXMP's main purpose was to revitalize XMP as a viable mod/conversion/whatever to be played by those who play UT2K4, not just for those who played U2XMP. In that light, Your Friend's post was extremely on point. He's new to the game, and the fact that he didn't play U2XMP - makes him not know of the things that are considered to be "oh so horrible" by the veterans. He sees the game the way it is right now, and not the way it was before. To him, there isn't anything wrong with the class balancing. He is claiming he can kill just as easily with any class, against any other class.. and that is the way it should be viewed as. Yes, some things are different and yes some things are stated to be changed in the patches, but the point remains that he represents a group of players that are going to potentially bring XMP into somewhat of a limelight, so if you don't like his opinion.. be civil about it and not an utter ass-hole. You people who mock his post are the REAL trolls.
And while we're on the topic, if the fact that the pistol's rate of fire is changed or something else as non-differential and trivial as that throws your entire game completely off and you now suck, when you were self-proclaimed as being "good" in the original.. I hate to break it to you, but your adaption skills are non-existent and you do, in fact, suck.
Have a good day.
And while we're on the topic, if the fact that the pistol's rate of fire is changed or something else as non-differential and trivial as that throws your entire game completely off and you now suck, when you were self-proclaimed as being "good" in the original.. I hate to break it to you, but your adaption skills are non-existent and you do, in fact, suck.
Have a good day.
Mantik, If it's not as close to the original xmp as possible, then whats the point? Thats all I'm saying. I guess we've gotten to the root of the issue. Only FMI can really tell what the intent was. And based on their intent the mod will either meet or fall short of the intentions(for now...it's still beta)
I think that attitude pretty much sucks Mantik,i never said i could not play it as it is,I said i do not want to play it like it is because it is not the same game as the original ,a big difference there son. and yes just the pistol can make a huge difference in gameplay according to the way i playand how i ambush unsuspecting peeps with it that is how i play and you really should not be concerned with how i play but how you play. If everything id okey dokey for you with the beta i am happy for you man rock on.
Sir_Brizz said:I think Mantik is exactly right.
UTXMP is XMP NOT U2XMP....
Brizz, you are usually on the right side of reason, but that post just doesn't make any sense. XMP is u2xmp, there was no U1xmp or U0XMP. There was only one to go off of. I really like xmp a lot. It's fundamentals were perfect. I consider weapons and movement two of those fundamentals. Why change it... I'm not going argue anymore its pointless until fmi weighs in.