Sad new blow to INF

[Nukeproof]

One good place for highly teamoriented gameplay would be dtasal.

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=164168

But currently there is hardly enough demand...

 

[Derelan]

You were playing TDM.... with teamwork? TDM is when you want to kill a few minutes or relax from the drudges of a day. If you want to actually get involved in your game and excitied by it, you need EAS or DTAS.

EAS it is! Good choice!

 

[mat69]

I'm not sure if I was on that server on that time - depends on the timezones - but anyway I played against some of *.cat on FOOL and it was funny. I got the feeling, or better I rembered the old feeling, that TDM is - that it mostly had been, forget those "inf was better back in uhm when?!, - the same as before. You play alone! He, it was funny don't forget that, I played 10 times or even less INF the last year, and the mission was allways to kill everybody beside your own guys, the once with the same camo. TDM is just a gamemode to have fun, not to think much, really! that's the impression I got after some beer and whatever it needs to get you drunk - on a tuesday! gna damn I suck - and some years of game experience.
Sometimes you team up, but if you are killed three times by a great rusher you forget your "strategy" and move by your own quickly. It's sad that some dumbass "provided" you cover that way, but sorry kick his ass instead of ours. I can only talk of myself: Either I'm playing alone or I'm covering someone's ass if I told so before.
I put this "as real as it gets" away long time ago, INF is just as unreal as Unreal itself, those "small" things won't change the spirit of the game: You can't die!
And all those guys who were or even are in the army know what I'm talking about, INF is not real and not even close.

 

[zeep]

Midwinter-poo.

It sounds like a cheap hentai movie name.

 

[Kitty.cat]

It's people like Mat69 that make me want to quit. The point of INF is "as real as it gets". When you stop treating it that way, it BECOMES that crappy deathmatch Unreal game. TDM CAN be team-based. Hell, today in Norwhich I was seeing some of THE best teamwork I've ever seen EVER! We had communication, people doing tactical move and covering. Suppressive fire. It was WONDERFUL! Except, the other team didn't do that, so most of the time our team only lost, say, one person, while the other team got whiped out. To clarify - INF is only as realistic as we make it. If we want to play INF - As real as it gets, we should play it as real as we can. If we don't want to be as real as we can, then we need to find a new game and quit desecrating INF.

 

[Kitty.cat]

By the way kitty, if you want somebody to cover you then play with psych. Seriously, the guy sticks to your ass so close that sometimes you can't move because his weapon is stuck in you.

I finally got to take you up on that today. Psych, Assessina and I were doing a 3-man move and shoot team, and we were kicking ass. I always felt safe with Psych bringing up the rear. It was perfect.

 

[Nukeproof]

Lady, you play INF and post here for how long? You jump in and tell people how to play? On there own servers?

Your crusade for teamplay in all respect, but that's not how it works.

Once more: Want highly developed tactical matches? Do some clanwars. And don't pick TDM - it's gonna take forever, nobody moving.

 

[Kitty.cat]

it's gonna take forever, nobody moving.

Obviously you've never heard or done team move and shoot. Or team secured advancing. *Sigh* which is exactly why this all makes me sad. Everyone's forgotten what INF is.

Edit: Except P^R (as much as I hate to give them credit for anything) and ESPECIALLY Ghost Dogs. I hold both of them in high respect.

 

[Psychomorph]

INF is not real and not even close.

Thats why all my suggestions here, muahah.


Actually a different kind of TDM, a 'TDM+strategic objective' thing would simulate real infantry better than current EAS.
EAS is more of SpecOps in a very weird way, it doesn't feel real in any way. I
nfantry don't have objectives to take papers from a box that is somewhere in a room.

1) Infantry have to defeat the enemy force, by dominating locations. EAS-INF-DS-Arid is the best infantry map with the optimal objectives to me.
Infantry should capture strategic positions and all that.

1.1)As I allready suggested, the attackers can have a small SF unit byside the mass infantry, that have to get data, or top secret stuff, the infantry have no clue about details of the SF's guys task, but know what area to capture and cover to help the SF unit.

1.2)As suggested in the Variable Geometry thread in the new version suggestions section, random map geometry could create all new locations so you don't know the place like you live there. That would increase the realism.



2) I think SpecOps missions can be done the best by beeing a co-op game agains A.I. Where the enemies aren't players that just wait for you to come, but patrouling guards and units that you have to avoid and get top secret stuff.


3) Some military CQB combat would be good as semi-TDM+task. You (military CT unit) have to get into a house and for example rescue a hostage. You have a small building and the single hostage. Either the CQB unit will be wiped out, or they 'capture' the hostage and win.
Fast gameplay, a matter of few minutes, like real hostage rescue thing are.



You'll have various gametypes and gamepalys that way and that would create the most realistic military experience as it gets.
Sure it is not meant to be real; it's a game, but just to create the optimal illusion, that is the core of playing that game.

I´m sure 'As real as it gets' can be done 1000 times better than it is now. I hope the next INF can move more toward this.

 

[Kitty.cat]

Wow. Psych. You rock

That's brilliant, and it made my day.

 

[Lightzout]

Kitty gets it.

Yes Kitty you are 100% correct. At the beginning of every match it does tell people to work as a team. It can be frustrating without teamspeak and tight group of friends. Just ignore the idiots and try to find a team/clan/friends whatever who use TS or other voice comms. I hope to be an INF player again someday. I still have it installed maybe Ill have a go. Unfortunately BF2 is my current FPS even though it has many flaws too.

 

[cracwhore]

Yes, thank you for not wanting to give us any respect - and stating so various times. Much obliged.

 

[Psychomorph]

P^R are cool to play with. The game gets more serious and proffessional and more enjoyable to me.
I hope I can get into EAS again and master it better again, to have fun with INF as INF is meant to be (even if I don't like EAS that much).

I respect WeeD's CQB skills, but this TDM rapage just sucks to me and gets boring after a time.

Wow. Psych. You rock

That's brilliant, and it made my day.

Heh, allready the imagination about that makes my day.

 

[Kitty.cat]

Yes, thank you for not wanting to give us any respect - and stating so various times. Much obliged.

Don't worry Crac. You've never given me any reason to dislike you. I'm just dishing back the same crap some of your clanmates give me. But honestly, I don't really hate anyone. I talk **** to those who talk it first. I leave everyone else alone. Though I might gripe about being pwned ^^;; I don't even hate the person that gave me the CS comment. It just makes me sad, that's all.

The only reason I've been so loud about all this is because it was about damn time someone said something. And yes, I have been a bitch about it, because nothing is as good as INF when it comes to potential for realism! America's Army is ok. But ew! INF is where the real action needs to be. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of selfish apathetic people ruin it.

So sorry to all I've shocked or possibly even offended. I'm just a determined romantic with a vision. Join me, save INF.

 

[Nukeproof]

Obviously you've never heard or done team move and shoot. Or team secured advancing. *Sigh* which is exactly why this all makes me sad. Everyone's forgotten what INF is.

Edit: Except P^R (as much as I hate to give them credit for anything) and ESPECIALLY Ghost Dogs. I hold both of them in high respect.

Obviously you never played those TDM clanwars.

 

[mat69]

It's people like Mat69 that make me want to quit. [...]

Thanks for the praise. knowing me that long you have the overview
You say that they used suppresive fire and I tell you suppresive fire is nearly useless in INF. Take the Minimi and try to supress the enemy it hardly works and that's a pitty.
I liked the tactics during some EAS and DTAS games, they were fun but imagine a map like MWH or MovingDayMassacre do you think tactics will work on them?
In fact TDM CAN be tactical but if you have a good player on the other team tactics are often useless and that can become frustrating pretty fast.
I was allways for realism but I came to the conclusion that realism isn't honoured in INF. Use rl-tactics and you will see that unreal tactics work better.

Of course I had a vision too some good and many more bad ideas, but really most times it comes to the same point: You can't include them realistcally because there is no need to be afraid of dieing. Man I really would like to use MGs as they are used in reality - in fact I saw some guys trying it in INF as well (guess it was OpFor) but most times they didn't succeded. Imagine fireing short bursts down a road and noone tries to rush to you - the risk of beeing hit by the shots or by riccoshets would be too high, it's not worth, simply take another way. But that's a vision. The maps would have to be bigger and 20 players would be minimum to start with. Imagine 8 defenders against 30 attackers, in reality everything would depend on the position not in INF.

Yes the ideas of Psycho - especially the ones with the bots - are sounding interesting, but this won't happen in the close future.

And btw. so that there aren't any misinterpretations we in FOOL played TDM matches - man TAS isn't that old - with tactics too, but clanwars are just other worlds compared with public play and even in clanwars the last surviving guy could and in fact did eliminate a whole team on say Sicily.

 

[Psychomorph]

Look unrealistic tactics can work in real life too, a guy can rush a unit and spray them with an AKM+Drum, same effect, the reason why he wouldn't do it, he cares about his life and fears pain.

They are things that can't be done in a game, but I think EAS's wave time (which annoyes even more when it's 2 vs 2) are somewhat of a penalty, but not enough.

But the main problem in INF IS STILL!! to much unrealism. When you get shot you have few miliseconds a bad situation, but rock on after that milisecond as nothing happened. In real life a single bullet in the leg can bring you to fall, a shot in the shoulder makes you weak and loose control, makes you strumble and affects your view.
Eight 9mm rounds into a vest can beat you unconscious, make you pain so you cant aim proper adn move weird.
When this would happen in INF I say you 95% if the rushers would pwned, owned and die a horrible death. Only few lucky ones can type their 'LOLz!!' and they will deserve it.

Sure in real life they are many situations where you don't notice a hit, still run after a legshot and fall only when you notice it seconds later.
That can be implemented randomly in the game aswell, but you would never know when this events will happen and risking it would be never worth.


I still have the opinion, that false injury system is one of the main problems in a realism shooter, in INF it is sadly to undeveloped. When you can take much (or without horrible effects), you risk much.

Beeing seriously shot should be a real huge fukin penalty and nobody should ever try to imagine to think about to risk beeing shot in the game.



As some people here said INF is right with right people. I had some clan versus clan war on a public server (I was the single non-member on one of the teams) and they palyed serious and I enjoyed it much, hell I even learned some tactis.

I enjoy INF when it is NOT funny, when it is serious meant and players behave professional.
Sure they are always funny situations where I use my 'lololollo', or my 'Muahah', but when every second word is 'LOL', 'Lmao' and 'OMGz Loll', I just leave the server, or even quit the game (thats why I don't like playing with WeeD, to mauch run'n'gun, to much risks, to much LOLz).
I want INF to be a simulation-game.


They can be done so much, I hope INF:Source will do 'enough' to simulate the simulaton better.
As said, take a look more toward a proper injury system.

 

[Psychomorph]

And I forgot to mention something that brings me often suffer when I play. The controls. Not the complexity, thats fine, but the behavior. The freeaim weapon movement mostly is so oversensitive to me, even when I take the whole mouse speed lower.

I always had problems to use the weapon as accurate as I can in real life. In real life you just point the gun toward the target, it feels almost like autoaim. INF:Source should have a bit better freeaim and view control.
More clearer freeaim weapon movement, more smooth and fluid freeaim-to-view turn and so on.

What often annoys me is that when I aimed more up and take the gun lower, the view stays a bit to high and I have to really move the gun low to have a more centered view, that sucks. I noticed that very much since the very first time I played INF2.9.

 

[Kitty.cat]

You say that they used suppresive fire and I tell you suppresive fire is nearly useless in INF. Take the Minimi and try to supress the enemy it hardly works and that's a pitty.
I liked the tactics during some EAS and DTAS games, they were fun but imagine a map like MWH or MovingDayMassacre do you think tactics will work on them?
In fact TDM CAN be tactical but if you have a good player on the other team tactics are often useless and that can become frustrating pretty fast.
I was allways for realism but I came to the conclusion that realism isn't honoured in INF. Use rl-tactics and you will see that unreal tactics work better.

Suppressive fire does work. I've done it and seen it done on many occaisions. Just noone is any good at it .

I totally understand that we are still in fact playing an Unreal game. BUT. Playing with insane unreal strategy while using the real-life tactics and team tactics makes it that much more crazy. Eternity is a prime example of it. He'll be covering your ass and doing move and shoot, but still come out with 23 kills in a single map.

Edit: RAv3 helps dramatically. No more of this perfect accuracy bull you get in normal INF play. That's why most of you hate my RAv3 EAS zero reinforce. It's too realistic and therefore too hard . Yer all used to going solo and not paying too much attention to your team.

 

[Kitty.cat]

What often annoys me is that when I aimed more up and take the gun lower, the view stays a bit to high and I have to really move the gun low to have a more centered view, that sucks. I noticed that very much since the very first time I played INF2.9.

I don't honestly know how they'd do it, but head movement independant of gun movement would be an AWESOME feature. Also, regarding what you were saying earlier about realism. Try RAv3 EAS with me sometime, zero reinforce. Noone rushes anymore. 'Cos they die. Everyone move's slow, covers their ass, 'cos otherwise they get shot and are out until the round is over. Also, if you get shot, depending on where you get hit will obscure your vision. If you get nailed in the right shoulder, your gun and aim will shoot up to the right (anyone who's been hit hard in the shoulder knows, you lean into it in pain) and you gotta readjust your aim (giving GOOD incentive to cover yourself when you're in a gunfight. Cos the minute you get hit just once, you can count on losing if you didn't take safety precautions.)

Also, I found myself caring much more about my team. 'Cos trying to take on an assault with just yourself against 2 or more OpFor in clever defensive positions is just SCARY.