Q4 Multi player
- Thread starter moonflyer
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BooGiTyBoY
The ImPaCt-DaMpeNeD BooGeRaToR
He means noobs in the sense of someone brand new and doesnt know anyone else who plays. It's those types of people the community is supposed to help out... you know like we used to do around here. 
Now it just seems everyone gets labeled "noob" or "pro" and lots of specific quotes get picked apart and shot back at people needlessly.
Yep... there's community for ya.
Now it just seems everyone gets labeled "noob" or "pro" and lots of specific quotes get picked apart and shot back at people needlessly.
Yep... there's community for ya.
Bleh, I still like the idea of how to do everything being in the manual, and learning advanced implementation leaning on the community for.
I can see people moving hella fast strafe jumping through a quake level, and not ever figure it out.
I can watch someone do a nasty hard trick jump in UT2004 that I've never seen before, and do it within X amount of tries in IA, and be implementing into my game in days. I wouldn't even have to log onto a forum, or download a demo.
Also, the more complex the execution of the moves are, makes them more limited in use. Simple, but versitile moves, that can be combined in multiple different ways, make for more variety in moveing. Just like in 2k3, even small stuff like the differences between boost jump, dodge jump, and jump dodge jump, could be the difference between hit or miss with Shock beam or LtG, and could also be the difference between flight or fall, depending on needing distance, elevation, or compimise of both. Add a single tap shield pop in there, and the versitility get's nasty. You also don't need a prefabbed step, or lip to start it, a wallkick can happen off any verticle surface, including blocking volumes.
Any verticle movement techniques in quake seem reliant on much more specific map aspects, or weapon propulsion. The whole strafe beat thing is mostly just exploiting friction for horizontal speed, which can then be channeled retroactively into vert by, once again, very specific map aspects.
Also bearing in mind that the first ramp dodges weren't placed with such obvious intent, you could amost consider that a similar "movement technique" of UT. They are only really as maps specific as they are now because of how mappers have adopted them, and made them obvious. Where was the first time you ever used a slope to slide up to a higher elevation? I wonder if Q3 handles that in the same way... IIRC, I don't think vanilla does.
I can see people moving hella fast strafe jumping through a quake level, and not ever figure it out.
I can watch someone do a nasty hard trick jump in UT2004 that I've never seen before, and do it within X amount of tries in IA, and be implementing into my game in days. I wouldn't even have to log onto a forum, or download a demo.
Also, the more complex the execution of the moves are, makes them more limited in use. Simple, but versitile moves, that can be combined in multiple different ways, make for more variety in moveing. Just like in 2k3, even small stuff like the differences between boost jump, dodge jump, and jump dodge jump, could be the difference between hit or miss with Shock beam or LtG, and could also be the difference between flight or fall, depending on needing distance, elevation, or compimise of both. Add a single tap shield pop in there, and the versitility get's nasty. You also don't need a prefabbed step, or lip to start it, a wallkick can happen off any verticle surface, including blocking volumes.
Any verticle movement techniques in quake seem reliant on much more specific map aspects, or weapon propulsion. The whole strafe beat thing is mostly just exploiting friction for horizontal speed, which can then be channeled retroactively into vert by, once again, very specific map aspects.
Also bearing in mind that the first ramp dodges weren't placed with such obvious intent, you could amost consider that a similar "movement technique" of UT. They are only really as maps specific as they are now because of how mappers have adopted them, and made them obvious. Where was the first time you ever used a slope to slide up to a higher elevation? I wonder if Q3 handles that in the same way... IIRC, I don't think vanilla does.
Do you mean I contradicted myself within that quote, or over a series of posts? I don't care if I contradict my own opinion over a series of posts. But if you think I contradicted myself in that one quote then you are the bad one. Calling a noob a noob shouldn't be insulting, because... they are a noob. A noob is a newcomer to a game. If you are sensitive to the term noob, then maybe you should go play singleplayer, or a game without a learning curve. There is plenty community-made documentation on how to strafe jump and overbounce and all of that other jazz. The Q3 community likes informing noobs how to get better. The only time there really is any hostility toward a noob, is when the noob has a bad personality in the first place or is tries to dumb down the game so he feels better about himself instead of trying to pick himself up to a higher level of play.JaFO said:
*edit*Also I don't mind 'exploiting' friction or different movement physics in a fast-paced scifi fpshooter. The more advanced the movement system, the better, imo. I feel ut2007 is going to use more realistic movement now that they are focusing on Unreal Warfare. I personally liked the slides, because it's a cool movement. I don't care if people aren't able to exploit this type of physics in real-life, because I'm playing a scifi non-boring fast-action fps shooter.
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All I'm trying to say, is that execution doesn't have to provide that level of advanced, it can come from implementation and other elements as well. You just seem to have a very narrow view of what makes it "advanced".
Its an id Software game, but Raven Software is developing it.K.N.I.F.E said:
http://www.quake4game.com
Also, I did get to play it at Quakecon, for about an hour with other staff memebers (I was staff this year as well) I thought it was a great MP game myself, and will probably be picking up the special edition when I get the chance.
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Yea i will try it, atleast until UT2007 ships.
I watched the CTF movies and it looked ridicilous with all the cangaroo jumping.
I watched the CTF movies and it looked ridicilous with all the cangaroo jumping.
I wonder how many player models Quake4 will have.
It looks like Doom3 (hopefully I'm mistaken) has but 1 main player model?
:-/ ?
I can't remember, not right now, exactly how many player models Quake3 has. Maybe 15 or so. I should check. Would be great if Quake4 would at least have 5-10.
Variety is so important. At least to me it is.
It looks like Doom3 (hopefully I'm mistaken) has but 1 main player model?
:-/ ?
I can't remember, not right now, exactly how many player models Quake3 has. Maybe 15 or so. I should check. Would be great if Quake4 would at least have 5-10.
Variety is so important. At least to me it is.
yes ... you contradicted yourself within that single post.briachiae said:
Don't you realise that *you* are the community ?
You're effectively telling people to learn, but you're unwilling to teach yourself.
That is exactly what stops 'noobs' advancing and enjoying the game.
And yes ... I do find 'noob' insulting. I've considered 'noob' the unfriendly term for newbies that were unwilling to adapt and learn. If you dared to treat people in the real world like that you'd have a bloody nose before you could say whiskey tango foxtrot.
It is exactly this kind of casual insults that makes players search for cheats and other quick-fixes instead of trying to practice.
One should not have to depend on hidden information to play the game.
It's like having an OS without a manual and telling people to search the internet for the info they need ...
Linux-freaks are good at this, which is why Linux still is not ready for the average user, while Windows is still dominant.
You mean ... if someone tries to make a game more accessible to make sure more people can play he should be insulted ?
And then you wonder why the community keeps shrinking and more people jump to other games/environments that are less hostile and more accessible to begin with.
BooGiTyBoY
The ImPaCt-DaMpeNeD BooGeRaToR
Dude you just took everything he said completely out of context. I don't see anywhere in his post where he says he's unwilling to teach anyone... in fact I've personally witnessed Bri helping out newer players before. So your comment on that part of his conversation is completely wrong.
You also don't NEED to learn strafe-jumping or overbouncing or any of that stuff to play and enjoy quake3. But it's nice that it is in there as people who are looking for a little more out of their gameplay will have more advanced techniques to learn and adds depth to the game. There's lots of stuff in 2k4 that isn't "in the manual" and must be learned through the community as well. So that arguement is also null and void.
I also understand what he's saying about the dumbing down of the game. It just plain sucks when companies do this. Look at Pariah with it's uber-suck-simple aiming system. It was purposefully made that way for console players and is extremely "dumbed-down" in that respect. It almost seems like they took a step backwards in some departments with a new "next-gen" game. With so many fps games out on the market these days and a long histroy of them it's hard to add new features that haven't been done before or make a game stand out on it's own. Strafe-jumping and some of the other techniques in q3 help make it stand out from the crowd in my opinion and offer something no other game has. Why is that a bad thing?
You also don't NEED to learn strafe-jumping or overbouncing or any of that stuff to play and enjoy quake3. But it's nice that it is in there as people who are looking for a little more out of their gameplay will have more advanced techniques to learn and adds depth to the game. There's lots of stuff in 2k4 that isn't "in the manual" and must be learned through the community as well. So that arguement is also null and void.
I also understand what he's saying about the dumbing down of the game. It just plain sucks when companies do this. Look at Pariah with it's uber-suck-simple aiming system. It was purposefully made that way for console players and is extremely "dumbed-down" in that respect. It almost seems like they took a step backwards in some departments with a new "next-gen" game. With so many fps games out on the market these days and a long histroy of them it's hard to add new features that haven't been done before or make a game stand out on it's own. Strafe-jumping and some of the other techniques in q3 help make it stand out from the crowd in my opinion and offer something no other game has. Why is that a bad thing?
That's the only thing he does.BooGiTyBoY said:
JaFO: If you want to play a dumbed down game, go play a dumbed down game.
If quakers wanted to play a dumbed down version of quake then they would have made a mod with nerfed movement.
*edit*I like an advanced game. I like people playing at an advanced level. I taught atleast 30 almost brand new players how to dodge up slides consistently, and I aslo tried to show them all the most advanced movements possible in ut2k4 and how they can do them, even though only a couple could do the advanced movements in the same session I showed them. I used to goof around frequently on demo servers, trick jumping around the whole level and just explaining to everyone how the game works and what the objectives are in TDM and 1v1. And then I'd get someone curious enough to go to a 1v1 server with me so I could try getting him to do the slides consistently and other movement stuff and then sometimes I even tried showing them how to time pickups and etc. Then when good clanned players come into the demo server I'd stalk them and try letting the players with the lowest score on the board shoot me. I'd go up right next to them so they'd frag me. I'm not hostile towards noobs. I'm hostile to people that want to dumb down the actual game, when they can easily make a noob mut or host a server with a novice maplist.
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