Q4 Multi player

[Selerox]

Faith Shaken

Agreed. Quake4 is looking menacingly good right now.

Epic need to nail DM. If they don't, they'll be on the business-end of an exodus. Quake4's got 9 months head-start on UT2007 at least, so any dissaffected players will already have a game to jump ship to. I hope Epic keeps their eyes and ears open, I really do.

 

[1337]

Hi boogs

I agree with you

Q3 tricking >> ut2004 tricking

Q3 movement is more advanced and fluid than ut2004. The projectile weapons actually do momentum. ut2k4's movement is too jerky and controlled. Sure you can shield dodge jump a great distance, but as soon as you hit the ground your momentum resets. Or if you shield jump and while your going upward wall dodge off a pillar, your momentum resets. This type of very jerky movement only allows for a series of tricky jumps instead of a trickjump run.

I admit to enjoying the jerkiness of ut2004 the first 100 hours of playing it. It made it easier to move around a level and it felt like I had a lot more control over my movement than other games that had more momentum based movement. So I could grip onto a crate and not worry about slipping off of it because of my momentum.

A lot of the weapons have trickjumping limits, too. You can't rocketjump like the oldUT, the shockcombo doesn't do a lot of self momentum. You have a lot more limits in ut2k4. I guess that's why there aren't many ut2k4 trickjumping clans.

 

[Plumb_Drumb]

Q4 Multi player

is looking good!
________
MachoCezar cam

 

[-AEnubis-]

My main beef with strafe jumping, is it doesn't just take practice, it takes specific hardware and settings too. I don't wanna learn to play with a mouse, just because otherwise, I can't keep pace.

I really like the amount of control, and physical realism that is involved in UT movement. At least in Tribes, they have the "ski" feature, that is a bindable reason you don't "lose momentum" for your trickruns. Exploiting poorly written code is not a really good reason IMO.

Looks good though. Might be a nice little break from TAM.

 

[Plumb_Drumb]

lol, watching that guy miss the jump from on crate to another, and then not being able to hop on the second crate, i couldn't help but think, "double jump, ya idiot!"

Then i remembered it ain't UT2k4.

Not sure I could get used to the nerfed movement along-side playing UT2k7, but I like the fact they are keeping to thier roots (almost to a point of looking identical, aside from poly and lighting beefups)

I'm pretty sure 2k4/2k7 will be my main game (as have all UT/Unreal games), but i can't pass up a Quake game.
That Enema Territory: Quake Wars looks like it may be fun too.
________
Prilosec side effect

 

[moonflyer]

My main beef with strafe jumping, is it doesn't just take practice, it takes specific hardware and settings too. I don't wanna learn to play with a mouse, just because otherwise, I can't keep pace.

I really like the amount of control, and physical realism that is involved in UT movement. At least in Tribes, they have the "ski" feature, that is a bindable reason you don't "lose momentum" for your trickruns. Exploiting poorly written code is not a really good reason IMO.

Looks good though. Might be a nice little break from TAM.

yes, but a ut player have to learn to play with a keyboard, to keep pace in dodging

as long as you understand how to make strafe jump, move in quake becomes really enjoyable. and momentum based movement gives you more control on speed. IMO it's more physical releastic than ut's style

but anyway i don't like the default movement system of q3, it's lack of air-control, i hope there will be RA4 and CPMA2 for q4, they are what i indeed want

 

[BooGiTyBoY]

CPMA > VQ3. Yes, let us hope they institute a form of it as a default gametype

ALso Aenubis, here's a breakdown of what you are talking about as far as system speed goes when trying to trickjump, strafejump, etc.

http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake3/FAQFPSJumps.html

Hopefully they will take the g_synchronousClients, p_move, etc. commands into account when the game creates it's first-run config file

 

[-AEnubis-]

I was refering more to use of mouse accelleration, and how much more difficult fluid motion is with a trackball.

I have an nvidia card, frames are not a problem for me in those games. I flip like 240fps in q3 maxed or something god awful like that.

 

[Selerox]

Rapidity and Evolution

I have a question about CPMA. What exactly does it do to the game? Are we talking about a Quake equivalent of UTComp here, or something more fundamental?

 

[spineblaZe]

cpma blows imo


Sel, essentially cmpa modifies the default movement and gameplay of Quake 3.

Vanilla Q3 > *

 

[BooGiTyBoY]

It gives you air control, the ability to control bunny-hopping (although still very hard to do and takes practice), adds some new jumps to the game such as ramp/stair jumps, teleporter jumps, and double jumps (not like UT's... you need a second surface to jump off of for the second) and adds quite a few physics tweaks. i.e. rox are a lil faster and have more push along with a few other weapons, faster weapon switches, new hud system, crosshair health (it changes to yellow, then red as your health goes down) and a bunch of other minor tweaks.

Here's a good "promo" movie for it's features if you care to check it out:

http://www.planetquake3.net/download.php?op=fileid&lid=2084

 

[NeoNite]

Why isn't this thread moved to OT yet...

 

[Shroom-FX]

AH I remeber that, when me an my mates used to sit around an ol P3 seeing how high we could plasma up a wall.

The masters of Q3 TJ'in pwnt UT ones, used to be good 5 minute long videos of bunny jumping down twisting fluorescent tunnels to trance. IF Q4 manages to do similar... phack.

 

[-AEnubis-]

Meh, I think I'm wit spineh on this one.

 

[1337]

If it gives players more control over their movement, adds more movement techniques and makes rockets more effective and do more momentum... I don't see anything wrong with that.

One isn't better than the other, they are just different and have their pros and cons. I think spine and AE just don't like anything that isn't vanilla.

 

[JaFO]

...
Q3 movement is more advanced and fluid than ut2004.
...
This type of very jerky movement only allows for a series of tricky jumps instead of a trickjump run. ...

Q3-movement isn't "more advanced", it's different.
The fact that it depends so much on timing and hardware makes me think Quake's version is actually worse. Hardware should never ever dictate movement-speed in a virtual world. That is just so wrong on so many levels.

I think that part of the reason for this 'lack of fluidity' is that trick-jumps are/were supposed to be a neat feature to get to a higher platform and they were never really intended to be a replacement for running.

I have the feeling (and I really hope) that it's going to be even worse (for the monkeys-on-speed) in this new version.

 

[1337]

Q3-movement isn't "more advanced", it's different.
The fact that it depends so much on timing and hardware makes me think Quake's version is actually worse. Hardware should never ever dictate movement-speed in a virtual world. That is just so wrong on so many levels.

I think that part of the reason for this 'lack of fluidity' is that trick-jumps are/were supposed to be a neat feature to get to a higher platform and they were never really intended to be a replacement for running.

I have the feeling (and I really hope) that it's going to be even worse (for the monkeys-on-speed) in this new version.

Q3's movement is for a more advanced player, it has less limits and a longer learning curve.

People's movement in ut2k4 is limited by hardware too, just not as literally as in Q3. In ut2k4 trialmaps that weren't optimized well, I couldn't do even a fourth of the things I could if I was getting an even 35 fps without any jerkiness on a better hardware setup. I also heard that there was a setting that let players with bad hardware benefit from the same things players with 125+ fps do, other than getting 125+ LoL.

Yes. The shieldgun in ut2004 was a very neat feature that let players get to higher places in exchange for some health. It worked very well. The shieldgun could only do melee damage, so it was the perfect weapon to put this jumping ability into. All other weapon's momentum was nerfed.

I like jumping around a level, even in MOHAA I jumped around levels and walked on the railings instead of the ground, jumped onto wires and posts and those were challenging things that I was rewarded for, these were hard to do. In utk2k4 shieldgun jumps are easy and there is a low risk of failure, in-game jumps are basically reduced to computing what's worth the damage, not the chance of failing a jump. There is a little element of how much should I charge the shieldgun to save health, but do enough self momentum to make the jump, however.

There are some TDM map jumps, that have a big risk of failure element(ut2k3 especially), but are also benefitting to the player, probably close or equal to many of Q3's. But, I was speaking for trickjumping, not actual gameplay.

If anyone says they don't care about trickjumping, then I say I don't care that they don't care about trickjumping, because I was posting regarding trickjumping, not TDM, and I love blueberries!

 

[-AEnubis-]

Heh, the two of us play a bit of TAM, is that considered vanilla now?

Really, vanilla Q3 still has the strafe jump exploit IIRC, so I still say UT > *. I like the more controlled movement. It having intent means it can be coded to work for everyone, under all settings options and hardware selection. Not to mention, it changes the focus from "ability to do it" to "innovative implementation." I'm not keen on book learning, and then flaunting moves other people have shown me can be done. I like the "here is what you are cabale of, now go" type system that is more or less how UT is.

I used to love doing the same type of stuff in CS, climbing, and getting to places you couldn't usually get. Perching on boxes, actually using air vents, etc... I really liked how you could piggy back in that game, as well as there variation of the dodge, the crouch-jump. I just dig the control that is exhibited when it is placed with intent.

Some of the stuff I could get used to, like the way if you hit a lip, or step and start upward momentum, then jump at the peak, you jump higher then you would have standing on the top of it. It's like a running start, that is cool. The speeds they achieve with strafe beat jumps, are just ludicrous. Cheat like even. Hard for me to imagine then not destorying CTF.

 

[JaFO]

Q3's movement is for a more advanced player, it has less limits and a longer learning curve.

a truly 'advanced player' wouldn't worry about limits.
Never mind that even if such species exists then it's only a small percentage of the market. For any game to be succesful it has to be possible for *new* gamers to understand the reasons for the movement as they exist.

People's movement in ut2k4 is limited by hardware too, just not as literally as in Q3. In ut2k4 trialmaps that weren't optimized ...

That's just as bad practice as a game that relies on optimised hardware-settings & software-cheats.
The only real advantage that an 'advanced' player should have is practice/experience.
It should never rely on settings/features that never were officially documented.

Yes. The shieldgun in ut2004 was a very neat feature that let players get to higher places in exchange for some health. It worked very well. The shieldgun could only do melee damage, so it was the perfect weapon to put this jumping ability into. All other weapon's momentum was nerfed.

Of course all other momentum was 'nerfed'.
If they didn't do that then the shieldgun would have been a useless weapon.

...But, I was speaking for trickjumping, not actual gameplay.
...

if trickjumping has no relation to actual gameplay then how can you be 'rewarded' ?
IMHO for trickjumping to be considered useful it should be part of the game-design. There should be clear and obvious/explainable advantages and disadvantages. It is one of the reasons why I would have liked to see 'species-stats' to be the default setting of the game. It would allow for both trickjumper as well 'normal' players to play the same game without tipping the balance too far in favour of one of them.

The game should allow for players to learn the basics without having to rely on a community that (especially as the game/feature becomes succesful) is filled with the kind of players that treat anyone not on their level as 'stupid n00bs'. And those basics should be a little more than telling people they can 'wall-jump'. It should allow them to practice those basics without having to jump into a real battle and start asking questions.

 

[1337]

Q3 is for a more advanced trickjumper, atleast. There are less limits so you can keep on doing more and more and more insane things, and those things are a hell a lot harder than anthing ut2004 can offer. Advanced players in ut2004 don't do anything harder than what I can do movement-wise in ut2k4, they just have good aim and know how to focus and crunch numbers. In Q3 I see advanced 1v1 players doing movements that take a lot more concentration and skill than any movement ut2k4 has to offer.

I don't care if a noob can't get in the game and understand what and how everyone else is doing what they are doing, because that is what the community is there for.