Damn lots to reply to...
...but it seems Rogue got here before me
Nevertheless, as the flames were directed towards me, I will reply to them personally.
Why are you flaming in the first place? This is a debate, you don't need to insult someones "lack of experience" on the matter. And for that matter, I have been on a research assignment for 4+ months in school on "Police protection". By the end of the semester I was researching "Police Brutality". Go figure.
<i>yes.. they if they feel its neccesary to drive a tank thru a wall to capture somone, let them, as long as they have no final say in his conviction.</i>
Oh my god I hope you are joking. You will let these guys drive a goddamn tank through a wall? And I know good cops will have enough logic not to do this. Think about all the innocent people who are hurt while doing this. Lets see: extensive property damage, psychological damage (five year old kid sees his dad attacked by a damn tank and 10+ officers in full gear... and don't say that its "an example" for the kid, because he will either be terrified (at the police) or scared ****less by the whole event), and god knows what other kind of damage. Just tell me you aren't serious. Lets capture a prositute. I think I'll drive a tank through their brothel.
<i>thats horrible.. that means that civilians kill more people than cops, police usually manage to arrest people without bloodshed. This is another reason civilians dont need guns.</i>
No, you read the statistic wrong. Civilians kill more "crooks" than do cops. Bad sign or gross negligence on the part of the police? Sure an untrained civilian with some weak pistol he has (because of "gun control" laws), can't do more damage to crooks than a <b>trained</b> cop with a Sig (almost at minimum)? And a definite no to cops arresting people without bloodshed. You missed the part about 11% of their shootings directed towards innocent civilians. Whoops, bad shot. Compare this with the 2% annual rate for civilians. If any thing, this statistic proves that we would be better off if we armed only civilians and none of the cops (or all of them as civilians, than disbanded the police force). This is just theoretically speaking of course, but the statistic seems to prove it.
<i>no.. they really dont... all the time?? You obviously have never ever had any encounters with police officers... ive never had a bad experience with one, they did in fact search my neighbors house...and they presented a warrent, asked permission and searched. </i>
You obviously don't live in a ghetto district. And truthfully neither do I. It seems you have seen one isolated incident in which cops searched a neighbors home while asking permission. Or maybe you came upon one of the good cops. Or you are living in an extremely good rich neighborhood. I don't know exactly. But the point is these things happen to poorer, (and for the most part black) neighborhoods. Of course you won't see these things in the news, or coming from the mouth of the police. You are saying these things never happen. I'm saying they do, and quite frequently. Again, read the beginning post to this thread. And alot of other posts in it as well. Seems all of these are illegal searchings/possessions. And who are you going to complain to? The police? Your legal advisor?
<i>They use high tech gear to reduce the risk to them. And we DO go after the big guys, what are you talking about? Do you think we just go after small time crooks? You have no knowledge about this subject, Ramon "The Baron" Cantu was just captured last year, with an estimated estate of 67 million dollars (from cocaine). Do you honestly think that police officers just use these things for the **** of it? Listen.. they risk their lives daily, and you are probably the most ungreatful person ive ever met. You obviously dont know what police officers do every day, you name a few cases where they screw up, but almost all the time they are doing positive things and you overlook them. They DO fight cartels in the US, they fight militant groups, they fight gangs, they fight idiots with guns as well. "The police" protect us, if you are being attacked you call the police, and they show up, you resent them because you are afraid of them, and honestly you dont understand anything they do.</i>
You are right, they use high tech gear to reduce the risk to them. Not the civilians, certainly not. To protect themselves, which is their foremost objective.
What do you mean "we" go after the big guys? And for that matter, yes I do think that for the most part police go after small time crooks. And I have no idea what you mean by Ramon Cantu. I couldn't find it on any search engine. I need a url to guage this situation (which may or may not be an isolated occurence).
I'll just skip the flames. Fight militant groups? What? Like what? And for what reason? Were they asking for the unsuppression of their rights? And Rogue Leader put it right, they are a gang. An extremely well funded and large gang, but a gang nonetheless. They make the rules, and you obey them. Not out of respect, but out of fear (gun to the head, prison time etc.) And it takes police forever to respond. And no, I am not afraid of them. I am afraid at what they are becoming. The police are here to keep the peace. Not fight a goddamn war against the people. Which is precisely what they are doing most of the time. And I understand <b>very</b> much about what they do and how they do it. You can't just say I know nothing about them just because of my opinions on them. I know what I can see, and from the 4+ months of research I have done on them. I know plenty well what they do, and what they are capable of. We have one the most corrupted police force on the planet. And I resent them because alot of them are idiots. Not the overwhelming majority of them, like many point out, but too many of them. Wayyyyyy too many of them are idiots. It's like going into government office and finding that 1/5 of the politicans that are there are corrupt. Something is seriously wrong here, and a complete reorganization is the only solution. Not giving them more power.
<i>A lot of people are assholes, why are you labeling the police? Body armor.. yes.... why shouldnt they have body armor? They are being SHOT AT, and if you were being shot at you would wear it too. And no.. it doesnt prove anything, an isolated incident doesnt prove a thing.</i>
Because as a percentage based on population ratio, a larger percentage of cops are assholes than civilians
No, I wouldn't wear it because I am a civilian, and there is no legal way I could get it. And when a thousand isolated incidents come together, they become common. A regular occurence. This itself shows that something is wrong.
RavenStarSinger: It's alright, those guys were just idiots. Hehe, I can almost bet one of those guys wanted your pocket knife, and used the "law" to get what he wanted. A pocket knife is definitely not for self defense; just a utility thing, like a utility belt
I don't know if a KaBar is illegal, but it shouldn't be. People collect all kinds of things, and although a KaBar is can be classified as a lethal weapon, so is a butcher knife.
DeadeyeDan: I agree wholeheartedly. I don't like it when people think they are all high and mighty, and think they are above the law. It's also annoying to see people fall like sheep for it, and give up their rights so incredibly easily. Sure, it doesn't seem to affect you much in the short term, but what about in the long run? Sounds like a cool district you live in. I have never lived in "terrible" areas of the United States, but just by reading the news, viewing statistics and getting knowledge straight from its source (interviewed police officers), I find it is enough. Not all cops are bad. But too many are. Simple as that. And they are overfunded. Your personal experience tells you that civilians can be (and usually are) just as responsible as cops with weapons. Statistics can only serve to back you up. I mean, 11% of civilians shot? That number is too damn high. With all their training, I expect no more than 1%. You don't see 11% civilian/friendly fire casualties in the military. Why? Because they are trained, and responsible, with their weapons. And a friendly fire/civilian casualty in the military is punished far more than a cop shooting some guy in the back by "accident".