Planet Unrealm - Notes, etc.

[PsychoMoggieBagpuss]

Rifts?

Heh

I think I've still got a gargoyle character kicking around somewhere on a bit of paper.

MDC rocks my nutz

 

[Cammy]

Dear friends... (Please, no more flaming...)

I actually meant seriously to leave, but someone appealed to me not to, so I guess I'll just stay a while longer and clarify a couple more things...

As I see it, when you use another contributor's character(s) in a written RPG, the following possibilities are available to you:

(1)You can make the character say or do things which are the regular staple of any story i.e. talking, walking, running, fighting etc. Thus I can write that 'Wolfram attacked the orc' or 'a knife gashed Wolfram's side', etc.

(2)You can make him/her say or do things which are completely out of character. Thus for example I can write that 'Wolfram cried loudly like a baby when Du-de-es-ta snatched his candy bar from him', or 'Wolfram was gay and fell in love with Du-de-es-ta (Heaven forbid)'.

(3)You can put him/her in a humiliating situation, making him/her look ridiculous and a figure of fun. Thus I can write that 'everyone laughed loudly at Wolfram as he lay in the puddle of mud with the cream pie in his face'.

(4)And finally, you can bring about situations, events etc. in the story which have far-reaching consequences of an undesirable nature for the character. Thus I can write that 'a terrible curse befell Wolfram; henceforth everytime he touched a sword, the sword would resist and attack him as if wielded by a spirit', or that 'swords and axes were fast growing obsolete in Unrealm; before long guns and cannons would take their place (what this would imply for Wolfram, I'm sure I won't have to explain)'.

As I see it, option (1) should be perfectly acceptable to every contributor to a written RPG. (Heck, what can you write otherwise?) Options (2) and (3) would probably be unacceptable to many, and so should be avoided (unless the character's owner is a real sport and you know it). Option (4) would be a definite no-no -- unless you discussed it with the character's owner first and s/he agreed. I mean, just ask yourself how you'd feel if someone used option (4) on your character(s)-- without asking you.

And which options have I used with respect to other contributors' characters? I have used option (1) liberally of course, and as for option (2), I am open to the possibility I may have unwittingly used it a few times with respect to a few characters. (If I've used this option with respect to your character(s) and you're displeased about it, tell me and I'll avoid doing that again in future -- assuming for now I do eventually return to the Unrealm thread.) Option (3) I have only used once -- with deep regret. And I'm sure I can say with a crystal-clear conscience I've never used option (4).

But what options have other contributors used with respect to my characters? I believe I can say quite fairly that they've used option (4). Witness the episode I turned into a dream and the she-thief character's latest boyfriend. And without discussing it with me either. I can only appeal to you all to ask yourselves whether you consider it fair to me.

If you've used option (4) on my character(s) simply because you find them disagreeable to your personal taste or because you find this whole Divine Intervention thing distasteful, then I want to ask you: first, are you writing your own novel? No. So would it be fair then to expect everyone to abide by your personal taste? Second, was it stated at the beginning that there shall be no such thing as gods and Divine Intervention? When did we sign a contract to that effect? This is an open-ended written RPG. It should surely be a free-for-all (within the bounds of the abovementioned options, of course). True, it wasn't stated either at the beginning that we shall have such things as gods and Divine Intervention -- but insofar as someone just happened to have brought them in before anyone else who didn't like such things could contribute anything, I think it's only fair that the ideas and characters from the earlier contributor be given due respect. Or if you simply, absolutely want to write them out, then I think the very least you can do is discuss it with their contributor first.

I believe I have been very reasonable so far. If you feel otherwise, you can tell me why -- in a rational, cool-headed way, please. And if everyone's verdict on me should still be that I have been unreasonable, then I'll just quietly go.

BTW, Jing, do you mind if I bring Alucard back -- assuming I return to the Unrealm thread, that is?

[Edited by Cammy on November 23rd, 2000 at 06:50 AM]

 

[PsychoMoggieBagpuss]

Cammy

The main thing that made me kick off was that Zeus post. and the ones following it.

Zeus returned from the mortal plane, reaching between his legs and massaging away with sheer pleasure....etc

and the

If you can put words in Asteph'theroc's mouth, Wank, so can I... Oh, and thanks so much for offering me such great challenges!

The reason we were putting words in each others mouths is because we had met in irc and discussed where we were taking the characters
I had already posted my misgivings that IMHO that the whole gods "thing" was ruining the story line, and I thought you'd have picked up from everyone elses postings that it was getting kind of irritating.
Obviously you didn't , maybe I should have been a bit more clearer and concise.
Kuan-Yi (+ the rest of the powers) stopped being gods and instead became an extra weapon of your character. IMHO mortals are not meant to know the mind of god till they're dead. In the majority of fantasy novels (well apart from those based on the Norse mythos) gods are venerated and miracles/healings occur, but there is (usually) never direct interaction between gods and mortals.
Even in the majority of the TSR AD&D novels (which have a HUGE selection of different gods in them), there is virtually never any direct communication between gods and there worshipers (signs + portents maybe, but not full blown conversations).
I also had doubts right from the start over the ressurection thing and also (I know it sounds silly) the name of your principle character. This is supposed to be a creative effort. I know (and every one else who has ever played an RPG before knows), that creating your characters name is probably the hardest part of generating a character. You either have to make it virtually unpronouncable (as I did), or have some type of .....ummmmmm.......divine intervention .
It sort of breaks the "believability" (spelling?) of the story if you have a group of characters featuring Vitosh Bonebreaker, Alurial the Red, The Grand Neep, and then Bob Junior the fighter. Chun-Li (to me) seemed to fit that category.
You also seemed to be under the impression that my sole purpose of writing was to "get at" your character.
I'm sorry you thought that way but it wasn't.
If you had querys or concerns about where I was taking the little side story we'd got going you should have posted about it here, not jump straight into the plotline and deliberatly sabotage it. Especially since I thought myself and WAnk had really "clicked" with the dialogue between the characters and that it was getting to be a pretty good read.

Anyway thats all water under the bridge now, so lets carry on from the "reset" and try to keep each other a bit more informed of whats going on by posting to this thread, soemthing of which I'm guilty of as well (I rely WAY to much on irc ).
Rufus seems a fairly fine character (minus the Gandalf bit) so stick with him if you want or have a go at creating another character. I've always found it easier to work on the motives/background of a character I'm creating first before working out their powers/what they can do/how big there sword is.
It might be easier if you're a bit more general about what the character can do, rather than (to paraphrase) "***** can do x 6 times per day with a 50% chance, y four times per day with a 60% chance and z three times per day if ***** jumps up and down on one leg whilst singing "The Wizards Staff has a Knob on the end"."
We're creating a story, not another RPG with a full set of rules here.

Anyway thats my thoughts.
Be nice, I don't often have many

 

[Cammy]

Now that you've decided to talk...

Discuss on IRC? Why not discuss it here, on this thread so I can pick up what you all had to say and voice my thoughts, too? Especially if it would have significant implications for my character(s)? Don't rely too much on IRC, Rumple.

Put it this way, if that thing about the gods being immature children and being merely the stuff of the minds of mortals were just part of the personal beliefs of your character, I'd have no quarrel about that and I'd leave your character alone, just as I've left Dudester's spider beings alone. But I suspect that it's meant to be more than that -- in fact it's meant to be an objective picture of the universe of Unrealm -- and that you in fact meant to let your character bring about a state of affairs in the story which would prove prejudicial to the workings of my character(s)! (Correct me if I'm mistaken in this respect.)

I am aware of the misgivings regarding gods and the like which you (and others) have brought up on this thread -- and accordingly I have in fact asked everyone the question just what is wrong with having gods and divine intervention in the story. But I received no clear answer. People just went ahead and protested against this gods thing without explaining WHY it's bad. And as I said before, I've made a big concession by letting my goddess character appear in the story only once in a blue moon in future, perhaps never again (except in signs and omens as you suggested, or in dreams But people still wouldn't get off my back.

The name Chun-Li seems quite okay with me. (I like the name of your character's soul-mate, too. ) Just two syllables -- very easy to pronounce. I prefer short, compact, easy-to-pronounce names. It is those long, cumbersome names that put me off -- but that's my personal preference. The name Chun-Li is borrowed from a Street Fighter character whom I liked very much, and I just wanted to glorify her a little. And what's wrong with Gandalf?

Your character just seems... too arrogant to me.(If you can voice your personal opinions about my character(s), I'm surely entitled to reciprocate. )He would presume to rank himself above the gods! Wow, does that mean my goddess character would at some point have to admit to being inferior in front of him? Hey, come on, that's not exactly very becoming of my goddess, right?

In any case, as I've said, a written RPG of this nature should surely be a free-for-all. It should be fully democratic. Everyone should give due respect to everyone else's ideas and characters, even if they should prove disagreeable. Others may have preferences of their own, but what about me? Don't I have my preferences, too? Right, Rumple?

All things said, do you reckon we could work out something whereby your older-and-wiser-than-even-the-gods-themselves character would not stand unduly in the way of my character(s) and overly compromise their dignity, pleeeease? Hey, I've already made a concession by not letting my goddess appear too often again in future. Okay, how's this: maybe the majority of the gods are immature kids, but a very few are truly wise and ancient. How's that? And maybe your character would use a trick to make the gods promise not to enter the Unrealm in person, so they'd have to honor their word. Whaddya think?

BTW, hope you don't mind if I made the story such that the people your character killed in fact never died. Hey, your character's supposed to have a deep sense of love and respect for all life, isn't he?

[Edited by Cammy on November 24th, 2000 at 12:45 AM]

 

[PsychoMoggieBagpuss]

I suppose I was trying to create a state of affairs where I was trying to cut down on the god thing that was obviously pi55ing everybody off, but in the context of the story, rather than it all coming to a head in a rather messy way, which it did (particulary for "Chun-Li").

Okay, how's this: maybe the majority of the gods are immature kids, but a very few are truly wise and ancient.

Thats what I stated in my post in the unrealm thread.
My viewpoint was that a gods personality reflects that of it's worshipers (and vice versa).
An example would be Thor.
The majority of his followers are vikings, people who love a drink and a fight, preferably at the same time. If the gods portfolios/personalitys are determined by the believes of their followers, then it stands to reason that Thor would love drinking and fighting, just in a more extreme way (godly passions and appetites would be a hell of a lot more powerful than there mortal followers).
His clergy would then attract followers who were of the same mindset (I highly doubt someone would follow a religion with precepts and morals completely different to their own), which would then contibute (over the years) to Thors "personality".
If one particular religion believes that their God is the supreme being and superior to all others, it's probably quite likely that the God does as well, regardless of how wrong that might be.

Your character just seems... too arrogant to me.

Agreed, that was the intention. His priorities are completely different. To the majority of "normal" people he will be completley amoral

whereby your older-and-wiser-than-even-the-gods-themselves character.....

He would presume to rank himself above the gods! Wow, does that mean my goddess character would at some point have to admit to being inferior in front of him? Hey, come on, that's not exactly very becoming of my goddess, right?

A couple of points here.
He doesn't presume to rank himself above the gods. He just don't give a flying feck about them unless they get in the way of his mission(s).
The only reason he ended up "against" the gods in the unrealm thread was because I was trying to alleviate the damage your posts were causing, to the enjoyment of other people writing for the Unrealm thread. My intentions for my character originally had nothing to do with any gods (well maybe slightly), but that changed when Kuan-Yi became a major character and started having an adverse effect on everybody else.
I (as I said above) put my post/soliquay in, in an attempt to solve the problem "in-game" rather than having a long argument in this thread followed by a drastic change in the unrealm story. It also allowed WAnk plus whoever else wanted to join in to get a parallel story going in which Kuan-Yi wasn't mentioned every other post.
You're also demonstrating that you do see "your" goddess as another one of your chracters (almost along the lines of "Hi, my name is Chun-Li, I can do blah bleh and blah, and if you have a problem with it I'll sic my god on you who is a close personal friend of mine"), which is what I think annoyed the majority of people (we had a group featuring a barbarian, sorcereress, thief, etc. We expressed concerns of over the fact that maybe the group was too powerful. Jing retired his Vampire Hunter character. You play a god!?!?!).

I'd have no quarrel about that and I'd leave your character alone, just as I've left Dudester's spider beings alone.

Why the hell should it be otherwise?
If a person is activly posting and intent on developing there character there is no reason at all for you to stick your oar in and bring them into line with what you think they should be doing, especially without consulting them
*PMB takes a happy pill*
*sigh*

And maybe your character would use a trick to make the gods promise not to enter the Unrealm in person, so they'd have to honor their word - Cammy

Something must be done soon, to either convince the various panthenons to stop meddeling, an virtually impossible task he thought, or remove their ability to directly intervene temporarily. - Asteph'theroc Draco

*echo*

hope you don't mind if I made the story such that the people your character killed in fact never died.

Unfortunatly I did.
I was trying to portray a couple of things by this. His ruthlessness and the personal torment he goes through each time he does this.
If you've read any of Stephen Donaldsons the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant you might have seen the similarities (which I also mentioned near the start of this thread) I was trying to draw between Asteph'theroc and Kevin Landwaster, who used the Ritual of Desecration on the Land (that which he loved above all else) almost destroying it, in an attempt to avoid losing it permanently to Lord Foul the Defiler in the hope that it would eventually recover, free from Fouls influence. Sort of a scorched earth scenario.
Asteph'theroc loaths killing, but he will not pause for a second to lay waste those who get in his way in his aim of stopping the great evil or restoring his people, and now (for some reason) harming Mirya.

Others may have preferences of their own, but what about me? Don't I have my preferences, too?

Yes you do. But if these preferences pi55 of the majority of people posting and cause a fair few to stop because of it I suggest you change what you're doing or you'll have another character exploding into fleshy bits.

 

[Cammy]

Glad we're working things out

Okay, from what you've posted, I'll assume your character does have some room in his mind for a very few gods after all. In which case, hey, the words I put in his mouth wouldn't have been that much out of character, right? (Settle down, I won't do such things again, I promise -- at least not without your permission.)

On my part -- okay, okay, I'll never bring in my goddess again (in the way of actually entering the Unrealm), since she's pi$$ing everyone off (sigh... ). But -- this question is posed to everyone, not just Rumple -- will you fellas allow me to let my goddess at least sometimes have a chat with other gods and goddesses without causing any direct or potential impact on the story? Or visit Chun-Li and Du-de-es-ta in their dreams? Or perhaps let them astral-travel to her abode? You know, maybe sometimes, when the going gets real tough for them, they might need a bit of help from their goddess, even if it's just a word of encouragement... Come on, say yes, please? Pretty pleeeeeease?

I think I'll spell out sometime what I conceive to be the exact nature of the religion professed by my characters. It's actually not all that different from your concept of the mana weave, Rumple.

And Rumple, perhaps you might also like to spell out sometime just what your character's problem is and what his mission is, so I can make adjustments to my side of the story if necessary.

A last word on character stats and such. I just thought I'd provide these for my characters so when you want to use them (not misuse them, please ) you'll have some idea what they can do and what they can't. For example, you can't make Rufus part the Red Sea.

 

[Wolf Blackstar]

Well, one of the advantages Wolfram has is that when you're past is erased, you don't know exactly what gods you serve either. I still haven't decided what kind of religion he adheres to. I'm still going to keep an air of mystery about his past, though, revealing it piece by piece.

On another note entirely, I got my scanner working again, and thought I'd share some of my sketches of Wolfram.

These are from my pocket sketchbook, as you can see the spiral binding on the left.

]LoL[Wolf|PuF

<LordKhaine>hold on
<LordKhaine>making crack
<LordKhaine>just a sec

-

 

[LordKhaine]

Sorry about Khaine's lack of activity, but Ive been busy with BG2 right now.

Anyways, time to make some armour out fo this DragonScale I got

 

[Wolf Blackstar]

I think you'll get 50% acid resistance and AC 1 out of it

]LoL[Wolf|PuF

<LordKhaine>hold on
<LordKhaine>making crack
<LordKhaine>just a sec

-

 

[LordKhaine]

Correct wolf, I know have a suberb suit of armour for my thief

Magic Katana + AC -3 = Pretty hard thief

 

[Cammy]

Call me hopeless, but I just don't see what sort of adverse effect my goddess had on the thread, as Rumple suggested...

Anyway, nice sketches you've got there, Wolf! Hmmm, I must show some of mine sometime, too!

 

[The_Dudester]

Right, so everyone is happy now, right?
I decided it is probably time for my people to meet someone else's people, so I posted to bring the Ash-en/Undead alliance up to speed.
Just to clarify, the torsion on the weave of life that Tzchee-inki senses is of course the battle of wills between Asteph'theroc and the
gods/other forces trying to alter reality...
I'm thinking that the thing that Tzchee-inki's Hunting-spinners discovered on the path ahead is the Dragon which is about to kill Wolfram, Chun-li et al.
(Thought you guys might like some help from around ten highly skilled ninja spider-people! Of course, they'll probably go after you people after the Dragon
is taken care of, unless Tzchee-inki gets there first...)

 

[Cammy]

I'm still a bit apprehensive...

Wow, Rumple's character can engage in a psionic wrestling match with the gods themselves in the attempt to alter the very weave of the fabric of reality -- and emerge the winner, too. WHAT DOES THAT MAKE HIM? Hmmm, presumably the One True God worshipped by Wolf's paladin -- no, even that is too belittling a title, I'd think. Yup, he'd be able to part the Red Sea, indeed the entire Pacific Ocean, and with just a snap of his fingers, too. Yup, someday my goddess will be prostrating before him in total acknowledgement of his overwhelming superiority! Yup, I'd like that...

No, no, no, relax, I'm not going to start whining about the whole thing and start a big fat flame war again. This time, I'll just see what happens as the weave of the story's fabric unfolds. If it starts to unfold in ways that are greatly to my liking -- such as the scenario above -- then this little Ash-en wench named Cammi-inki will pull herself out very quietly from the Unrealm thread, and go elsewhere for some fun -- maybe date an Urnamu...

 

[The_Dudester]

I'm sure that everything will work out fine... after all, we are all intelligent, reasonable individuals here - aren't we everyone?

My stance on my characters btw: Everyone has leave to use my characters in their own writing... however, I will be trying to keep them on the edge of things for a while (the Hunting-spinners will probably just strike at the Dragon and then fade into the background again to report to Tzchee-inki...). Clarification on my character's motivations can be asked for if needed (and if I know the answer....

Thank you.

 

[WAnk]

wooo

i am back, i will go read and see what is up, then possibly come back here

 

[PsychoMoggieBagpuss]

Whoah there people

I suggest everone re-read my post again. I've rewritten it (slighter) to sync it in more with the wishes of the rest of the group.

Now all we have to do is have a lottery.
The winner gets to kill Khaine (in the story ).
I was thinking the best, evil enemy was the one that was never mentioned (except obliquely/indirectly).
Whenever my character refers to "HIM" i'm speaking of that one.
LK's character Khaine gets to be the bad guy, the avatar/ if you will, of ...uummmmmmm......HIM. As he posts so bloody infrequently it would suit him down to the ground.
I know.
I've met him.
He is bitter and twisted.
Playing a scheming evil meglomaniac would suit him down to the ground.
Besides, I'm sure everyone would like to kill (Lord)Khaine
When we eventually do, he can either have his character resurrected, reincarneted (Khaine the Evil Badger springs to mind ), or have a new "evil" character - hell someone else could retire a character and the play the bad guy -that was the new "avatar" of .....ummmmmm......HIM.

I have left a lot of stuff unexplained (Why HE tried to kill Chun-Li, why he tried to change Mirya to a thief called Natyala. Why HE tried to kill the goddess Kuan-Yi (there you go Cammy - just don't go overkill on it. You know what everyones feelings are about it. Maybe Kuan-Yi could call a council of powers to discuss/argue/kick in the nutz other gods over what there course of action should be). If I, or anyone else comes up with any good ideas on what the reasons are post here and we'll argue about it

The more feedback we get going here, will make sure we don't get any more....ummmmm....hiccups.....to the creative process.

As before post away if you've got any ideas/violently disagree with anything I say.
Its a piece of pi55 to go back and edit a post

 

[Cammy]

Maybe Kuan-Yi could call a council of powers to discuss/argue/kick in the nutz other gods over what there course of action should be

Gee, will you fellas allow me that? I thought you all are sick to death with me doing that sort of thing?

And dear Wank, are you still angry with me anymore? I hope not.

 

[The_Dudester]

So...I guess it was HIM who took over control of Von Schwartzentodder's zombies in S'mon Traskar?

<sorry for dealing with the Dragon btw, but my Ash-en girls needed some exercise>

 

[Wolf Blackstar]

lmao

It's a good thing I didn't make Sir Damon Vanderwal a Southern Baptist.

I planned on posting as several different characters from the start. After Wolfram recovers his memory and discovers the secrets about his mysterious past, he might fade out into the background, reappearing from time to time to give advice to newer folks, or vanquish a powerful force of evil if it becomes too strong.

The paladin, Sir Damon Vanderwal, represents a slightly stronger focus on roleplaying and personality development than my usual posting style(fighting), and is also different in that he has access to magic, though it is also limited in that it is primarily defensive in nature(auras and resistances).

The elf is more of a mischievous and sneaky type. This is to be expected from a thief, and his interaction with Sir Vanderwal reflects their conflict of opinions, but also their cooperation through friendship.

 

[LordKhaine]

LK's character Khaine gets to be the bad guy

HEY!!!!!

Im a good guy this time!

Im gonna read up on all Ive missed tommorow, and start posting. But im not a bad guy damnit!

My evil days are over, after what I managed to do in the last story thread I took part in