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ONS-Torlan-[PhoenixParadise]

Discussion in 'Nali City' started by V3rt1go, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. Angel_Mapper

    Angel_Mapper Goooooooats

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    There's a slight difference there in that Torlan is an official map included in 2k4. This is what happens to official maps. I seriously doubt there's any way he could possibly think he could have passed that off as his map, but if he did, then he got what he deserved.

    I'll bet you there's tons of 'first maps' uploaded here. Why rag on him because his happens to be an experiment with an already existing map? Because all he did was add more vehicles? I would think it would just be a matter of taste, like the giant maps or the endless Thorns remakes.
     
  2. Manticore

    Manticore Official BUF Birthday Spammer

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    Nothing wrong with that...

    In my opinion there's nothing wrong with first maps or with experimenting on other peoples' maps. Personally I think that it is a matter of pride (amongst other things) as to whether a map should be released; or whether a mapper thinks they should release...

    I'm constantly experimenting with Ued on other people's maps (either because I am too lazy or stupid OR I don't have the time to design and build my own environments) but I would be very careful about whether I released anything which is based on someone elses' work. Apart from the , er, "moral" considerations a commercially released map is subject to the laws of place governing copyright. There is such a thing as moral rights in copyright law; which I'm sure we all are aware of.

    When you install the game there are the usual legal warnings and disclaimers which must be accepted before the 'next' button works in the installshield wizard. The rights of ownership and integrity are still there to be accepted by the user and Epic/Atari/DE (and possibly the map author, depending on the legal construction but I know that's not the issue here) do have the right to go "wild west" on people ripping off from proprietary sources.

    I'm not saying any of this would happen but I suppose someone must draw some line in the sand when it comes to using work sourced from other people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  3. Kaithofis

    Kaithofis The Seldom Seen Kid

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    Look, whatever measures you take with "discouraging", newbies are always gonna release their maps.
    Cause 1) When you've just completed your first map, you feel like you've done something amazing, you'd have this pride all over you. Then what do you do? Right, post 'em, show it off, cause "you" think that what "you"'ve made is terrific.
    And 2) People get the idea that their map isn't all that bad, cause a lot of crap maps are coming in weekly. When you've made you first map, you know the kind, relatively simple meshes, but not too small.
    Then you come to NC, check some of the Lists out, and you find maps like ONS-Torlan{ClonageParadise} and CTF-AndAction, and it's little brother; CTF-AndBlacktion. Then the little mapper feels confident once more, and sends in his crappy map. But I do think it's kind of unfair.

    Perhaps newbie maps should be placed in a different section. They'll be rated with newbie standards, given advise and tips, rather than crapfests.
    Yeah, I know, how do you seperate a newbie map from a normal map?
    Simple, encourage newbies to post their maps in that section. I think NOT being called.. whatever you guys come up with, but being given serious advises, when the good and bad features will be accentuated in your map would be persuasive enough.

    We've got to let the new mapper develop their skills, helping them make masterpieces for good times to come.

    Or you could do what most of you seem to want; be able to report a low-standard map so it can be removed at once.
     
  4. Manticore

    Manticore Official BUF Birthday Spammer

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    Bring on the newcomers........

    With the greatest respect to you Ronin, I don't think it's really about discouraging anyone. Hopefully new mappers can be encouraged.

    Hopefully everyone, expert mappers as well as newcomers, map addicts (like me), general gamers as well as the people who own and run the site come away with a positive experience (read that as: GOOD FUN).

    So bring on new mappers but it's important to keep remembering that nothing ruins a learning curve more effectively than negative experiences. And by that I don't mean negative feedback which anyone who works at a commercial or professional level will have to learn to cope with anyway. You either cope or you die......

    But then there's the problem, of totally ripping a map. It wouldn't be the first time but, when it's so obvious, you have to wonder about what the guy's intentions were.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  5. Kaithofis

    Kaithofis The Seldom Seen Kid

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    I was just qouting Darth, an I thought that was the general feeling of ppl here towards new mappers, to stop sending their early material in.

    I think you should stimulate a learning mapper to keep at it and guide them a bit if needed. It's nearly impossible for that to happen here on NC, considering a lot of the posts.

    And how exactly were you planning to finf out what the intentions are of everybody who's bringing in a rip-map?

    Perhaps, just like Review Request, you could request a Removal. Also the number of removal requests would be counted (just like with the reviews now)
    And then an admin could take a look at maps of which ppl really want to get rid of. Then they should decide wether or not it should go.

    EDIT: Ow, and sorry about the extended use of the word newbie. Has a negative touch to it, don't like it too much. Sorry about the use of words
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  6. Manticore

    Manticore Official BUF Birthday Spammer

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    What I meant was.....

    I probably didn't explain myself well enough there but I meant that it isn't really up to me to decide what the guy's intentions were.

    From the outside it seems like a really stupid thing to do because you don't need need to be a genius to predict the type of reaction a ripped map is going to get from the community.

    So the whole discussion just goes around: Why didn't he make his own map and then surprise everybody with something really good? From my end it just seems really stupid...
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  7. Captain'04

    Captain'04 I'm the Alpha and the Omega

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    I' m very sorry. But this map OWNZ!!!!!!!!!!

    It' s really great, it' s fun and it rocks! It' s Torlan. OMG I can' t understand why people h8 this excellent map.
     
  8. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    I really hope that was sarcastic.
    Yes. It's Torlan. THATS THE REASON WE DONT LIKE IT BECAUSE IT IS TORLAN WITH A FEW VEHCILE CHANGES!

    ARGH. Just when you think humanity is getting better, a idiot stumbles slowly out of the primordial swamp of our race not realising that the words he speaks actually me "shoot me now and the world will be a better place" and has one of those silly school-boy era like stickers steathily stuck onto his back say "kick me, I'm a moron"

    Of course, if you're being sarcastic, ignore me.
     
  9. Captain'04

    Captain'04 I'm the Alpha and the Omega

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    LOL no sorry im very serious. this is my favourite map and i think its the best Onslaught map ever and i am not alone. Whole Germany loves this map lmao.
     
  10. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    No. It doesn't. Believe me... I know a few germans.
    What, in your opinion, makes this map the best ONS map ever?
     
  11. Manticore

    Manticore Official BUF Birthday Spammer

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    What?!?!?!?!?!

    Einstein once said that he only ever had one really good idea.

    Unfortunately the perpetrator of the dreaded "Paradise" didn't.

    Haven't you ever heard of the words INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS or THEFT?

    People ripping/cloning their own maps is acceptable. People remaking other people's maps is acceptable when they pay due regard to the originator of the work. This map is a few minor changes and a big boring zero for attitude...

    This map is not accceptable...........
     
  12. Captain'04

    Captain'04 I'm the Alpha and the Omega

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    i cant tell you. u love this map or not thats all
     
  13. Manticore

    Manticore Official BUF Birthday Spammer

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    Audible groan forthcoming

    Whatever...........

    You are entitled to your opinion as is anybody. Personally what boils my beans is original thinking and new ideas that are well executed.

    I couldn't find any in this map............

    You like it? That's just fine....

    Thought for the day. We should probably both take on board what this guy says....
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2004
  14. Ironblayde

    Ironblayde Director of Misanthropy

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    Humanity getting better? Wherever did you come upon such a strange idea? I'm afraid it seems you haven't spent enough time in the deprogramming chamber, old bean. I'll send a van over to get you right away.
     
  15. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    NO! NO! ANYTHING BUT THAT! I WAS SO HAPPY!
    BUT HEAVEN KNOWS, I'M MISERABLE NOW!

    seriously, if you cant back why you like the map, then I can't take you seriously. The map sucks. Tell me why it doesn't. Change my mind. I bet you like torlan more than the changes made to it in this map -_-'
     

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