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ONS-Torlan-[PhoenixParadise]

Discussion in 'Nali City' started by V3rt1go, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. V3rt1go

    V3rt1go New Member

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    1) If you've read the "comments" on the map named in the subject then you're aware that 90% of them are harshly critical of the map and the guy who posted it, Flak74. Most of the comments seem intended to rip him a new one.

    2) This is not a great way to grow your community.

    3) Bot40: I didn't say anything personally insulting to you, or to anyone else. But if you want to play some kiddie game with me, buddy, bring it on.
     
  2. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    This map, if you call it that, is not worth the time and effort your putting into this thread.

    You should pick a better map and come back. We'll wait.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2004
  3. Balton

    Balton The Beast of Worship

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    he added a few vehicles so he did not create them map but only did some marginally stupid not thought out stuff. he increased spammyness and reduced tactics and you want to gratulate him for that? Sorry, but you suck.
    :crazydance:
     
  4. darth_weasel

    darth_weasel I won

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    and ripping off maps like that is? its more damaging to the community than the comments in there. the comments hopefully will act as a discouragement to people thinking of doing similarly stupid things.
     
  5. MassChAoS

    MassChAoS echo "NaliCity";

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    The comments have been turned off as the map is already the 2nd worst rated map on NaliCity....
     
  6. Bot_40

    Bot_40 Go in drains

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    1) Listen, this guy spent 2 mins adding some extra vehicles to a map that didn't need them. Anyone who is convinced that this is a good attempt at improving a map quite frankly doesn't have any chance at becomming a good mapper ever. Period.
    Please tell me why I should go and lie to someone and tell them it's a really good idea to ruin stock maps by adding a stupid amount of vehicles to it?
    Why exactly should I go up to them and tell them their map is great and they are the next person to be hired by epic games when they just made a really bad map?

    How about actually comparing this map to another which actually took more than 5 mins to make before giving a stupid rating of 7/10? :)

    2) Perhaps you would like to explain to me how ecouraging Flak74 would improve the community. Maybe then we could get Severance version 6428796024758 which has 1,000,000 redeemers and 5,462,000,000 raptors, then we could all give the map 10/10 since it's clearly a vast improvement on the original. NOT :rolleyes:

    You seem to think that telling the author that this is the wrong approach to mapping and telling him that he would have a better chance of success by creating his own original map is the wrong thing to do :con:
    Shock horror, maybe if people did that then he might actually bother to make his own original map and make something remotely good. Can't have that can we? That might actually benifit the community :con:

    3) lol. No kiddie game intended in the map comment. Just asking you to justify 1 single reason why spending 2 mins to make a stock map worse deserves a score of 7/10.
    Just wish sometimes that people would actually consider what someone did to make the map that they are commenting on. Just wish that people would sometimes compare the map they are commenting on to some completely original work of art that someone worked on for 5 months that re-defines that genre of mapping :con:




    If discoraging map "attempts" like this shrinks the community like you said then so be it. At the end of the day, the only side effect is that people can do without spending 20 mins downloading a map only to find it's basicly the same as a map they already have but with worse gameplay and 20 extra weapons added.

    If people actually understood that they won't get credit for adding some extra vehicles to a stock map then they might actually bother to go and create a new original map. They might actually bother to learn to map properly and to come up with their own layout and themes, then learn to create their own meshes and textures then maybe become really respected member of the community.

    If you rip a map and spend a few mins adding a few extra vehicles then you are never going to get overall respect in the community.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2004
  7. Kaithofis

    Kaithofis The Seldom Seen Kid

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    HALLELUJA!!!

    AMEN TO THAT!!!
     
  8. Sarevok

    Sarevok ...

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    what's the 1st one? Morbiasfun?
     
  9. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    Yeah, I'm intrigued :p
     
  10. MassChAoS

    MassChAoS echo "NaliCity";

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  11. Sarevok

    Sarevok ...

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    wow...FrogTownStump.....
     
  12. Sarevok

    Sarevok ...

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    Vertigo you just don't seem to understand, Flak47 spent 5 min. of work on the map, all he did was right-click and add a few vehicles
    the original author of this map probably spent hours and hours making Torlan, we at NC appreciate mappers who spend quality time on their maps and people who make their own original content
    not that remakes are bad, Deck40 and CTF-EternalCaves are good, why? because the authors put in a lot of time into remaking them
    maybe you appreciate and admire mappers who take another person's map and spend 5 min. of work on it and upload it somewhere like they radically changed the map, but we don't, we have no respect for them
    if you can't see this, then you just don't understand mapping
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2004
  13. AMmayhem

    AMmayhem Mayhem is everywhere

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    You mean AndAction isn't on the list??
     
  14. MassChAoS

    MassChAoS echo "NaliCity";

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    its on the most commented list...
     
  15. Kaithofis

    Kaithofis The Seldom Seen Kid

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    Wow, for reviewers and posters and what not of NC, you do not know very much about the site... ;)
     
  16. Angel_Mapper

    Angel_Mapper Goooooooats

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    Although I agree that the map shouldn't get more than a 0 (or some option to disable rating ports/changes), some of the comments were pretty harsh. I didn't see anywhere where the author claimed it was his map. Epic lets us alter their maps for this exact reason, to change them to our taste and learn from them. I seriously doubt he was looking for feedback or criticism, just a place to put the map.
     
  17. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    But we don't want the map here - and I think that is the point. This doesn't happen at other review sites because our system is vastly different - we let everything in and then check, whereas other sites undergo a different means of filtering.

    The fact is that the real author of the map is Hourences and his map has been ripped. Think of it like that. Rachel, would you like it if someone stole GardenOfHeaven (last map of yours I played) and moved a few health vials and adrenaline, then released it as CTF-GardenOfHeaven-LE100?

    It's all about respect. Other sites and communities say that NC is a harsh place full of n00b haters who critise anyone who isn't DavidM or Hourences. Well, what unreal site has been going the longest, and how fed up are we by now of things like this? On the other hand, just look at DM-Goose2k4. A totally unknown mapper, getting an 8.

    We are harsh, but we just don't want someone's test in the editor, or someone's thinking that a map is wrong because it needs 100 more vehicles to be "fun". This is their opinion, yes, but nalicity is first and foremost a mapping site and the map of the topic is not a map - it's a edit job. Even if Hourences himself released it I think we'd be harsh on him because it is not a worthwhile release - at least not to the majority. I'm sure he could have released his personal version with more undergrowth and better lighting or something, but he doesn't because it is not a good idea to do so. ANd, if past experience is anything to go by, the person who has made this edit job would not listen to our kind words - we've seen it too many times before (CTF-Boxy238, CTF-Tubes-Of-Spam, DM-Cloudwars, to name but a tiny selection)
     
  18. MassChAoS

    MassChAoS echo "NaliCity";

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    Tubes-Of-Spam is an original work, but the author still didn't listen to any criticism as Shadowlurker points out.
     
  19. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    Uh, yeah, i forgot what point I was making :p
     
  20. luquado

    luquado The cake is a PLOY!!

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    Which, incidentally, is screamingly hilarious, since the DavidMs and Hourences and people weren't huge fans of the NC reviews back in the day for being too soft on n00bs (which I incidentally was highly guilty of for a long time as well.)

    Hell, I still think maps get overrated by a coupla points in official reviews here, but it's finally a better situation than most review sites I can think of off the top of my head.

    What's really comedic, while on this subject, is to do an advanced search for all UT2k4 maps with a user score of 7 or higher... take a look at all those 9s! Whew! So great that there are so many maps near perfection when the game's only been out for such a relatively short period of time! <- sarcasm*

    You're right, it is about respect, in more ways than you originally meant.

    But back to the topic at hand, Nali City has always had to straddle a precarious balance between the n00bs and the skilled mappers... what's that old saying, "you can please some of the people most of the time..."?

    :clap:

    Some day I'll write up a long essay on this subject, about how poor reviewing of custom maps as a form of social engineering has forced average build quality downhill since the UT days (I wasn't here for U1) while increasing feelings of entitlement. Today is not that day.

    *Not intended to slag on those map authors, since some in that list are decent!
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2004

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