No more TDM!

[yurch]

I propose, as of 2.87, to try to never play TDM again.
With any hope, the rest of you feel the same.
If you see a server with even one person in it.. and its not running TDM...
JOIN IT!

Together, we can kill TDM.
Friends don't let friends play TDM.

 

[mute_dammit]

As long as the only other option isn't regular DM, that's a damn fine idea. I'm sure there'll be cretins that actually prefer it over real teamplay, but hopefully they won't be the norm - or at least, they won't get in my line of fire.

 

[[L]-Lestat]

I'm all for it. And the alternatives are?

 

[BrownCow]

Without TDM inf would not exist.

If you think about it, in the way inf is set up, EVERY gametype will always be TDM. Because as long as you have "lives" and as long as killing the other enemy will give you an advantage to your mission, TDM exists. Give me mission based game, if there are "lives" involved, i'll do the missions last and kill everyone first.

So basically INF's design is pure TDM. You can't stray away from that, it wouldn't ever work. Unless they took out lives completey, and then you'd have people complaining about quake. Cuz with no lives, i'm gunna spawn camp like you would not believe (Spawn camping is beautiful because it is the best offense AND the best defense all in one)

 

[[L]-Lestat]

Originally posted by BrownCow
Cuz with no lives, i'm gunna spawn camp like you would not believe (Spawn camping is beautiful because it is the best offense AND the best defense all in one)

You're kidding me?

 

[MadWoffen]

Would like to but there isn't much assault maps around. We need more assault maps.

Hi Lestat, long time no see. Are you the same Lestat that post in Fat Babies forum ?
If yes, hope evrything ended fine with you.

 

[[L]-Lestat]

Lo mate. Yeah that was me on Fat babies. I'm still at Lego until the end of this mont and then it looks like I'll be working for the Empire. Microsoft. Lol.

I HATE spawn campers with a passion. Sorry BrownCow, but how much skill does that take?

 

[MadWoffen]

Assault missions is a good way of getting rid of spawn campers (at least when they are in the offensive side).

But a good teamwork in defense, call it span camping or not, is most than a valid tactic. After all, why quit your stronghold when you are attcked ?

Hey Yurch, will AFA server switch to AS/DOM maps only ?
Could be interesting.

 

[[L]-Lestat]

Wofen, I think the spawn camping BrownCow was reffering too (forgive me if I'm wrong) means hanging around the enemies spawn and fragging them as soon as they spawn.
Example Urban Terror for Q3, Docks map: Blue spawn. All it takes is for one person to stand on top of a building overlooking the blue spawn with a G36 and a couple of nades and red win hands down. Not a chance of fair gameplay.

 

[MadWoffen]

"re"-spawn ? What's that ? You have more than one life ?

Blaaa, not real!

INF rocks!

Almost all servers I have frequented don't have reinforcement. And I boycott the others.

 

[mute_dammit]

Originally posted by BrownCow
Without TDM inf would not exist.

So basically INF's design is pure TDM. You can't stray away from that, it wouldn't ever work. Unless they took out lives completey, and then you'd have people complaining about quake.

Yeah, and in the same way that Assault/CTF/etc. are just extra stuff on top of pure TDM, TDM is just pure DM with teamplay layered over it. The goal isn't to avoid TDM but to enhance it.

Give me mission based game, if there are "lives" involved, i'll do the missions last and kill everyone first.

I hope there are lives. I don't like the infinite respawn stuff. Having one life should make you more careful, especially if there's an objective/flag cap/etc. for your team on the line.

This is all speculation tho, since I don't really know what's going to be available in 2.87 - and won't believe it til I see it anyway.

mute (dammit)

 

[BrownCow]

CTF is a perfect example. CTF happens to be, imo, the only real team game. Assult is too i suppose, but i don't really like it. (you can't like both, it is a law, says me)

Now, if you played CTF and everyone only had 1 life the flag would never be captured. Well, it might be captured, but only because you've wiped out the whole team. And that brings us back to TDM. The focus is still on killing the other team rather then trying to get the flag. In an ideal game, capping the flag would be a much more difficult task then killing the other team. Good ctf matches can go hours w/o a cap in games like TF.

That brings us to the other method, which is unlimited lives. This puts the focus 100% on the actual objective. Properly made CTF maps can be made to prevent sever spawn camping. I honestly wouldn't consider spawn camping an issue.. on a GOOD map. Map like Kosovo (no offence Funk) is just NOT a ctf map. That was a TDM map with a flag added.

So if you add the limited lives you are essentially taking away from the objective. I LOVE ctf but i couldn't play it with lives and rounds, just isn't right. I'm assuming that the "new" ctf thing might be more like RTCW. Which would be a good thing.

That is what i mean about the TDM thing.. CTF w/lives is still 90% TDM.

MadWoffen Lestat was right, i was refering to spawn camping like in quake or ut. Sitting in the enemies spawn and spamming everywhere!!! muahahaha

And Lestat, GAT plays roughly 1 INFWAR match a week.. And basically they all come down to spawn camping. I dunno if you are familiar with it or not but it is basically your team gets X lives and there are no rounds.. You die, you respawn instantly. When team runs out of lives game is over. Whoever controls the enemy spawn wins basically. But, the maps we play are NOT made for that kind of game. So it doesn't really work well. And it really isn't all that fun. Spawn camping in a game where the goal is to kill is kinda bad. But in a CTF game it wouldn't be nearly so bad. Cuz there are generally 2-4 spawn areas in a CTF map. (In real ctf games like TF or WFA) You can't camp all 4, so generally people don't dick with it.


I know the mindset of the average inf player (who doesn't play very much) and they won't go with the whole unlimited lives thing, which is why inf will always be a TDM.. Just will have some dumbass layer of something else to try to fool people into thinking they are playing a real mission objective game.

 

[yurch]

From Warren's letter to LotekK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the CTF modes go, basically you're looking at an
attacker/defender playing style. Team 0 will always be the defenders
and Team 1 will always be attackers. Our game modes will automatically
switch out the UT CTF flags, and you can set this style of play up in a
variety of ways. The classic style is having the attackers spawn at
their "flag", go retrieve the opponents "flag", and get back. Or you
can spawn the attackers in one location, have them find the defender's
"flag" then extract from another location. Best thing to do is prevent
the defenders from spawning at their flag so the attackers have an
opportunity to retrieve the item. Also, our game modes will include
support for the attacker flags to be a few different "extraction" meshes
rather than the typical flag. UH60 helicopter, Hummer, 5-ton truck, red
smoking flare, or the zodiac as examples. But of course these won't be
available until 2.87 releases.

Hope this info helps. Feel free to pass it on.

_________________________________________
Warren

President
Sentry Studios
www.sentrystudios.com
jwarrent@sentrystudios.com

Project Coordinator
i n f i l t r a t i o n
www.planetunreal.com/infiltration
jwarrent@planetunreal.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks to me like we are getting respawns. Which is a good thing.

 

[Keganator]

That might be cleared up by the end of the week

Um...isn't assault still broken in INF?

 

[yurch]

Yes, assault is broken.
I don't think we can ever get a good game with just "1 life".
It doesn't work. No matter what.

 

[Profe]

Hurray for new game types :tup:

 

[[L]-Lestat]

New game mode ideas?

How now BrownCow? Would you believe I have never taken part in a single INFwar match, and from what you've said, don't think i want too

 

[TheNut]

What's with the sudden hatred for TDM yurch?

 

[The_Fur]

What do you mean sudden? It has always sucked big flabby donkey nuts.
Anyway Spawn camping is a valid tactic, if you let the enemy reach your supply lines you have screwed up and deserve to lose.

 

[Keganator]

It's just that in most of the TDM maps that are out now, the spawn points are so close together it's rediculous.