No more Button Combos?
- Thread starter NiteX
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Invisibility + flak = bleh. The invisibility combo brings a great imbalance in a game and I just can't imagine it being used in duels. In UT, invisibility was a pickup so anyone could use it but, in UT2004, the adrenaline is given as a reward to those who play best. That's a big mistake.
I'd like to see Adrenaline gone altogether. I'd also like to see Relics as an option (set default to "off").
Not any Relics, mind you. Not the attrocities inflicted upon us in the UT bonus pack.
I'm talking about the Threewave type relics or the relics in the first generation of Unreal's RealCTF.
THAT is the way to add some depth to the game without being cheesy imho.
Not any Relics, mind you. Not the attrocities inflicted upon us in the UT bonus pack.
I'm talking about the Threewave type relics or the relics in the first generation of Unreal's RealCTF.
THAT is the way to add some depth to the game without being cheesy imho.
Imo the biggest flaw of the adrenaline is that it rewards the better players. The more kills you make the faster your adrenaline is full and you gain an advantage over the less skilled players. And if you're making so much kills you are allready have an advantage over the others players, skill.
Maybe rewarding the lesser players with adrenaline will balance it. But how to reward the lesser players with adrenaline? Maybe something like gain 10 adrenaline when dying?
But no, I don't mind to see it go.
Maybe rewarding the lesser players with adrenaline will balance it. But how to reward the lesser players with adrenaline? Maybe something like gain 10 adrenaline when dying?
But no, I don't mind to see it go.
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Never really used it ingame. I always end up in the end of a game with full adrenaline. Then it's fun to make a speed combo and make som anim taunts.
But rather glad to see that one go.
But rather glad to see that one go.
Ban Adren 
Relics were also cheap and annoying - unless you were in a mood for Vengeance
imho more pickups - Increase the depth of game and mapping requirements by adding in more than just shield & damage. If you have pickups that berserk, boost etc then they could be controlled, and used tactically. Or just give the newstarts a cool kickass moment when they double & treble up on powers and own everyone accidentally.
Of course, then you'd have to address that balance of multiple pickups being too strong ala UT's glowing gold belt & amp hogs.
As a general point, i don't like Invis in games.
Relics were also cheap and annoying - unless you were in a mood for Vengeance
imho more pickups - Increase the depth of game and mapping requirements by adding in more than just shield & damage. If you have pickups that berserk, boost etc then they could be controlled, and used tactically. Or just give the newstarts a cool kickass moment when they double & treble up on powers and own everyone accidentally.
Of course, then you'd have to address that balance of multiple pickups being too strong ala UT's glowing gold belt & amp hogs.
As a general point, i don't like Invis in games.
I on the other hand, would like to see introduction of new abilities/combos but with an easier inerface. (what are the UC2 combos/melee attacks and how are they used by the way?)
As for the adrenaline overpowering good players, an easy solution would be to generate at a constant rate for all players. So everybody can do special thingy X every Y seconds.
Another solution would be to get adrenaline for inficting OR taking damage. So anyone who is active in a fight (winning or loosing) will get some adrenaline.
As for the adrenaline overpowering good players, an easy solution would be to generate at a constant rate for all players. So everybody can do special thingy X every Y seconds.
Another solution would be to get adrenaline for inficting OR taking damage. So anyone who is active in a fight (winning or loosing) will get some adrenaline.
edhe said:Relics were also cheap and annoying - unless you were in a mood for Vengeance
imho more pickups - Increase the depth of game and mapping requirements by adding in more than just shield & damage. If you have pickups that berserk, boost etc then they could be controlled, and used tactically. Or just give the newstarts a cool kickass moment when they double & treble up on powers and own everyone accidentally.
Of course, then you'd have to address that balance of multiple pickups being too strong ala UT's glowing gold belt & amp hogs.
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When you say they are annoying, you must be refering to the UT relics.
Have you tried the original Unreal Real CTF or Threewave relics? I think you'd change your mind.
Ah okay. Well if you've just got UT relics to compare to then I understand your statement better.
Threewave/RealCTF tech/relics consist of exactly four different type pickups: Haste (weapons fire rate - not insane running speeds), Regen (a small amount of health regeneration), Defense (less damage), and Amp (weapons damage more).
Each map has only ONE of each of these, spawned randomly. This initially encourages everyone to spread out to find them, as controlling them can give your team a bit of an advantage if used correctly. If you are carrying tech and are killed, you drop the tech/relic and your killer is rewarded.
The thing about them is this: by being aggressive with them you have an advantage in power, but you also risk losing them to the other team. By being defensive with them, you can't really score - can you?
It really gives an incentive to be aggressive, but not suicidal. It rewards smart team play. No one relic is so powerful on its own that having it would make you untouchable. But if you coordinate with your team, you have a pretty decent advantage. And of course, you can pass them back and forth to your team mate just as you would a weapon.
I'd love to see something like this as an option (or at least a mutator from some clever modder).
Threewave/RealCTF tech/relics consist of exactly four different type pickups: Haste (weapons fire rate - not insane running speeds), Regen (a small amount of health regeneration), Defense (less damage), and Amp (weapons damage more).
Each map has only ONE of each of these, spawned randomly. This initially encourages everyone to spread out to find them, as controlling them can give your team a bit of an advantage if used correctly. If you are carrying tech and are killed, you drop the tech/relic and your killer is rewarded.
The thing about them is this: by being aggressive with them you have an advantage in power, but you also risk losing them to the other team. By being defensive with them, you can't really score - can you?
It really gives an incentive to be aggressive, but not suicidal. It rewards smart team play. No one relic is so powerful on its own that having it would make you untouchable. But if you coordinate with your team, you have a pretty decent advantage. And of course, you can pass them back and forth to your team mate just as you would a weapon.
I'd love to see something like this as an option (or at least a mutator from some clever modder).
The Bonus Pack relics were sloppily coded. I'm pretty sure they were supposed to behave like Threewave, but for some reason they got messed up easily.
They weren't much like Threewave at all. First of all, they were just littered across the maps. You couldn't hardly walk for stepping on one. Then the effects they had were just a little overpowered.
Because there were like 6 of them. The four that were analogous to Quake runes I remember being pretty accurate -- they were overpowered in Quake too (which I always thought was the point).
I'm just saying that (I'm pretty sure that) 5 damage relics floating around in a single level wasn't the way it was supposed to work.
I'm just saying that (I'm pretty sure that) 5 damage relics floating around in a single level wasn't the way it was supposed to work.
BooGiTyBoY
The ImPaCt-DaMpeNeD BooGeRaToR
I never saw more than 1 type in any server I ever played on.... and this includes my own instant action and listen servers as well.
Didn't set them up right
The UT relics were a little 'sloppy' but they were mediocre fun. What hal describes does sound better. Something that can give a moderate increase in ability without totally tipping the balance - almost like dynamic a classing system
Would help vary the public gameplay - but how does 4 fit into 10, or 32 players, well ?
The UT relics were a little 'sloppy' but they were mediocre fun. What hal describes does sound better. Something that can give a moderate increase in ability without totally tipping the balance - almost like dynamic a classing system
Would help vary the public gameplay - but how does 4 fit into 10, or 32 players, well ?
hal said:
hm this reminds me of that 'core combat' planetside thing when i think of this together with conquest... imagine, each stitched map in a conquest level brings with it its own relic, and the person carrying it will emit an xmp-like trail of smoke and be almost untouchable when hes with his teammates and he has a decent amount of skill...
i think that this idea of a dynamic classing system is kind of cool too, it keeps the game fresh with more fun luck, rather than haphazardously tipping the balance around
and yeah, adrenaline should be given to reward activity, not just skill... cuz like if you are losing already and the winning player then has an advantage over you, it kind of feels less like a sport than something you'd rather give up on
i've never tried invisibility + flak.. what is it like?
I couldn't care less if Adrenaline were to be taken out of the game. It would be interesting to see some type of relic system - not like the UT Bonus Pack ones, but something like what hal was talking about.
Of course, they should be off by default
Epic hasn't put Adrenaline in yet. Let's hope they keep it that way.
Of course, they should be off by default
Epic hasn't put Adrenaline in yet. Let's hope they keep it that way.
I don't see how 'relics' would help the new/novice player at all.
The only reason a novice would even 'collect' such a relic is because of the random location prevents the veterans from memorizing the location and using that info to stop anyone else from ever getting access.
I do like the idea of being able to drop the active 'power' and reward the killer, but even that would eventually place the relic in the hands of the 'better' player.
IMHO there's no way a relic/adrenaline power won't increase the gap between players in favour of the 'better' player. However 'rare' relics of limited power that appear at a random location probably are the only way such a feature can be added without causing too many problems compared to any other method.
I do think that no matter how this is implemented that it should be part of the interactive tutorials in the game.
The only reason a novice would even 'collect' such a relic is because of the random location prevents the veterans from memorizing the location and using that info to stop anyone else from ever getting access.
I do like the idea of being able to drop the active 'power' and reward the killer, but even that would eventually place the relic in the hands of the 'better' player.
IMHO there's no way a relic/adrenaline power won't increase the gap between players in favour of the 'better' player. However 'rare' relics of limited power that appear at a random location probably are the only way such a feature can be added without causing too many problems compared to any other method.
I do think that no matter how this is implemented that it should be part of the interactive tutorials in the game.
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