new LCD monitor?

[SkaarjMaster]

What I really want is a 20" LCD or more with 4:3 aspect ratio (non-widescreen), 2ms response ratio and possibly 120Hz, but that's probably a pipe dream. Looks like the best 4:3 aspect ratio monitor I'll be able to get is 19", but I can't find one with lower response time for games. Looks like the closest I can get right now are two possible wide screen monitors by LG:
19-inch:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005110
22-inch
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005112

The problem with those is they just have tilt and you can't adjust the height of the monitor. I also heard the NEC monitors were the best.

What I want to be able to do is play Unreal Gold, UT-GOTY, UT2003, UT2004, UT3, Doom3, Q3-Arena, Q4, and Painkiller for now, but I have no idea what support these have for widescreen and, if not, how they would look on a widescreen monitor. Any ideas? Thank you.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Well that sucks, I thought they had the lag thing figured out for games by now........apparently not. So maybe one of those 5ms response time 19" NECs might work then. The specs don't really have anything that let's me know about input lag do they? I'm guessing I'll have to check reviews at different sites. I guess it's 5:4 LCD or widescreen and if widescreen then definitely a 22" as the picture would have stuff cut off on both sides for older games (or will the older games even run on a widescreen at all?). Once I get the games installed (all probably not for another month or two), I may just switch my 19" CRT between the computers for a while (which will be a PITA of course). Hmmmmmmm..........

What about this thing or is it just all hype?
http://www.iz3d.com/t-22monitor.aspx

This might work, but I don't need the speakers and a little expensive (NEC 24"):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002462

Also, what's the deal with no height adjustments.......are these people on something?

This one looks almost perfect and some reviews say no input lag, but I'm a little concerned about the one comment about the viewing angles (comment about not being able to see buttons does not concern me though((24" Samsung):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001263

 

[Deathmaker]

You both do realise that you can still play games at 4:3 on a 16:10 lcd? Just make sure that whatever you buy supports 1:1 pixel mapping. So, for 1600x1200, a 24"+ 1920x1200 would do the job.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Well, at least I had no idea about that and was just speculating with my extremely limited LCD knowledge (nil for widescreen). What would be the viewable diagonal for 4:3 aspect at 1280x960 or 1280x1024 (most of my games are set to 1280x960 right now on my 19" CRT, so I want to compare side-by-side before I change it). I'm also leaning toward 24" because I believe the actual 4:3 picture would be smaller than my 19" CRT on a 22" widescreen. Since the VA and IPS panels seem to be a little steep in price right now (I'll have to go TN), I'm leaning toward either the 24" LG W2453V-PF or the 24" BenQ G2400WD! Here's an insanely long and interesting thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/message...DFRM=&STARTPAGE=342&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Here's the BenQ link at newegg (although I may order somewhere else because of dead pixel policy; but I did hear something about a 48-hour replacement thing...):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014173

Dang it! Why do all the good monitors not have the freakin' height adjustments!

 

[shoptroll]

Here's the BenQ link at newegg (although I may order somewhere else because of dead pixel policy; but I did hear something about a 48-hour replacement thing...):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014173

I just picked that up a few weeks ago and it's freaking sweet. No dead-pixels for me, I think the NewEgg policy is a minimum of 8 before they'll swap it. Otherwise you need to deal with the manufacturer and my research said BenQ was fairly slow on the turnaround for dead pixels. I think Ars Technica has been recommending this monitor for a while in their system's guide which makes it a very good purchase since they clearly take things like input lag into account.

Height adjustment isn't a huge concern... old college textbooks are meant for this purpose or you can probably get a stand from the local Staples or OfficeDepot.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

(OK, I better number my questions during the rest of the thread)

1. Didn't newegg have some 48-hour swap deal going for a while or was that last year? Maybe I should try Provantage, but I checked and they have a manufacturers warranty only. Do they sell these things at Bestbuy or some place that can plug it in and confirm no dead pixels? I'm really nervous about the LCD crap shoot with dead pixels.

2. Anyway, I just measured the screen on my 19" CRT and it's 14" wide x 10.5" high (4:3 aspect, 1.3333, set at 1280x960 at 85Hz) and the new monitor (BenQ one above) will be 16:10 aspect (1.6, 1920x1200) and have a diagonal of 24". I have no idea what the exact height will be but I'll assume it will be 12" for the time being. If so, then the width should be approx. 20.78". I'm not sure how the screen will look for 4:3 games, but I'm guessing the full height will be used and the computer will just adjust the width until a 4:3 aspect is reached and then blank space on the ends. If this is the case, then 1280x960 games (set to some 4:3 aspect) will have approx. 2.39" blank on each side; 1280x1024 games (set to some 5:4 aspect) will have approx. 2.89" blank on each side. Am I thinking correctly on this?

3. So what if any older game (UT, Q3, whatever) doesn't have widescreen support, will run at all on these widescreen monitors and how will it look if it does run at all?

Also, people are saying the Dell 24" 2408WFP is better and the HP LP2475W is even better, but the GTG response on both is only 6ms (I've seen comments about input lag issues also) whereas the BenQ TN model has 2ms GTG response time. Also, here are some comments from the HP reviews at newegg and 24" thread at Hardforum, respectively:

"GAMING. (not really a CON) I gamed Halo 3 for about 4 hours tonight on this thing to give it a good test drive. The size/brightness/color depth of this monitor make it almost an unfair advantage against others with crappier/smaller screens. Only problem I can see is that the response time is a little bit more laggy than in TN based panels, not a huge difference but a little noticeable."

"For 24", there's the BenQ G2400WD, which is probably the fastest 24" TN for gaming, and the more expensive HP L2475w, which being a fast H-IPS monitor is also very good for gaming but has much better image quality than any TN, and is considered better than the S-PVA Dell 2408WFP. All of these are 60Hz; there are no true 120Hz 24" monitors at this time."

4. Oh, and don't worry, no height adjustment will not be a deal breaker for me. My 19" CRT monitor is actually slightly very little too low and I meant to move it up a bit and completely forgot (it could be a little higher and maybe I'll move it when I adjust the new monitor). It looks like the BenQ should be OK, but I might get a stand for it. Any ideas on good stands with height adjustments that stabilize the monitor and prevent it from moving during gaming?

 

[SkaarjMaster]

I think I'll just go with the BenQ for now. I really don't want to pay over $500 for something (the HP) and then the game response not be there. I can live with the slightly off viewing angles and stuff like that for now; it can't be worse than my Mom's LCD. Hopefully, in about 3-5 years, the technology will be such that they will have great picture quality and great FPS gaming response in the same monitor.

1. Looks like I'll have to order the BenQ online, so here's hoping no dead or stuck pixels and it'll be a crap shoot again. The only other thing I can think of is if anyone has a deal where you pay an extra $10-$20 and they guarantee no dead pixels when it left there warehouse (of course, they could just lie also).

4. Looks like I won't need a stand for this to stabilize the vibrations as the monitor thing should be strong enough, but I may have to get a stand for the height adjustment.

 

[shoptroll]

I'm having no trouble with the viewing angles. The only thing I've noticed is that if you look at it from a shallow horizontal angle (say from across the room) the screen looks darker, but that's it.

By the way, UT3 looks fine on low settings at 640x480. I can actually see stuff better than I could on the old 17" CRT (although that could be due to monitor brightness/contrast settings on the CRT)

 

[SkaarjMaster]

I did a quick search and it looks to me like it's just listed some places with the 'W' and others without it. Check here though for a response to my question:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1326971

 

[shoptroll]

640x480 on a 24" widescreen monitor?

It's not pretty but it works... I had to dial all the way down to get acceptable performance on most maps

 

[SkaarjMaster]

OK, so I'm definitely getting the BenQ G2400W, but now it's a matter of where I order it from: newegg, provantage or ncixus. Provantage is about $20 cheaper than The Egg and Ncixus is about $100 cheaper with some suspicious sale they have going on now.....hmmmmmmm.......

Here's the thread I'm following at hard forum (you may have to go to next page for latest):
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1237718&page=47

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Just ordered the BenQ G2400WD from newegg!

 

[J112]

Just ordered the BenQ G2400WD from newegg!

Congrats! and good choice, I've currently got one and I can't really fault it. I'm almost tempted to get another

 

[ZenPirate]

as an aside, "TN" panels are just fine, providing you buy one from a good manufacturer. Hell, even the *-IPS panels with identical specs from different manufacturers "look" different in person when calibrated. For gaming, that BenQ is amazing, for digital photography professionals there is nothing quite as nice as an Apple led display (..even on a pc)

http://www.apple.com/displays/

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Ok now that it's ordered, what will be the best way to calibrate this thing. Do they supply stuff with it that will be sufficient or should I download something?

 

[ZenPirate]

Quick and dirty way would be to pop in a Star Wars DVD and do the THX calibration.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

I searched a little and I have some idea for brightness, contrast and gamma settings. I also might run sRGB mode for games, but not sure about that one yet. I'll probably just use the Nvidia calibration and run with that for a while.

 

[Noobnugget]

That's exactly what I want too. Most of my favourite games are too old for widescreen support. What's more, I personally think any form of widescreen (be it 16:9 or 16:10) is rubbish for gaming. It definitely sucks for RPG and RTS titles, and I think FPS games just look and feel better in 4:3 (I've been gaming on my 16:9 TV for days now, but I just can't get used to it).

4:3 looks better with fps games? I'd think most people would prefer a nice, wider FOV given by a game that does it properly and doesn't vertically crop it(or with a ini change/3rd party app to force it proper). I do, as you can see so much more around you.

Don't get fooled by the numbers - there are plenty of 6+ms LCD's that are fine for gaming. Input lag is something you shoul pay more attention to.

6ms+ is fine for gaming? No... i very much disagree. I can easily spot the difference between even 2 and 5ms and even 2 ms still can't match a crt and has some slight blurring. So 6ms+ is only going to be that much worse and that much more undesirable for gaming.

They are also just TN panels, so while they have good response times, they will have poor colour and viewing angles. That considered, they seem highly overpriced.

TN panel viewing angles aren't as bad as everyone seems to harp. The only time viewing angles will REALLY become an issue is if, for some reason, you're sitting on the floor with you monitor 5 feet above your head. Which is something you shouldn't be doing on a desktop pc to begin with.

3. So what if any older game (UT, Q3, whatever) doesn't have widescreen support, will run at all on these widescreen monitors and how will it look if it does run at all?

Older games like quake 3 and ANY unreal game do support widescreen. It's a simple method of modifying the settings files(ex, ini/cfg). Simply set the res in the file, such as 1680x1050. Then set the fov properly, Both Q3 and all unreal games look right at a 100FOV for 16:10(and 105 for 16:9 i think), and voila. Widescreen support for those games.

Also, this site is a great reference for if(and how) many games support widescreen: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Master_Games_List

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Thanks for the widescreen forum link! I'm going to be reinstalling a few FPS games (including all but one from the Unreal Anthology pack), so anyone have an thoughts on the widescreen forum links and if these games will look good as widescreen? I think I'll do it for these games if and only if they support 1920x1200 resolution; otherwise, I'll just use the best 4:3 aspect I can.

This is the part I'm worried about: "As for games, full-screen games will stretch if they don't have a
wide-screen option. Its not that bad, though people tend to look a little
fat."

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Unreal_Tournament

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Unreal_Tournament_2003

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Unreal_Tournament_2004

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Unreal_Tournament_3

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Doom_3

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Quake_III_Arena

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Quake_4

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Painkiller

Also, I couldn't find information at that forum on Unreal (including RTNP), so I'll look in this forum for now.

Right now this is all I can find for Unreal, but I really don't want to mess with console commands unless they can be part of the original exe line.
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1183739876

 

[SkaarjMaster]

It's beyond me how these idiots can treat stretching as an acceptable solution. 1:1 pixel mapping should always be used for 4:3 material - or in some cases - stretch, but maintain aspect ratio.

Some of the pics at the widescreen site seem to suggest that it just gives you more FOV and doesn't stretch the screen (probably more so and completely in UT3 than other UT games), but I may just have to play with it and see what happens. Good thing I'll have two computers and monitors side-by-side with the same games installed to check things out! I don't which ones stretch for sure, but I don't like the weapons obscured comment (UT2004) you made but I'll be doing 16:10 so that might be different. EDIT:I just looked again at the UT2004 page and it looks like the 16:9 may be screwed up because it doesn't automatically let you change the FOV to 105 (for proper 16:9 display).