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Make People Like UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Fuzz, May 30, 2008.

  1. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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    Are you claiming that UT3 was basically "finished" with the exception of a couple of bugs, which weren't corrected because of a lack of testing? In my opinion, the horrible excuse for a server browser/gamespy integration, leaving out instant action options that we've all come to expect, delivering ONS 1.x instead of conquest, forcing tweaking through inis because the UI options were virtually nonexistant, lack of basic functionality like copy/paste and seeing who is actually in the server you're playing in, the huge downgrade in the ability to mod the game, and many others - are a clear indication that much of the game wasn't given enough attention, most probably to get it out in time for the holidays. Mike Capps even admitted that the UI was tacked on during the final moments of the game's development.

    Where are the Linux/Mac clients? Fix for openAL? Fix for client-side demo recording? I mean come on dude, the game is not finished. I'm not talking about a bunch of bugs, all games have those of course. Underdeveloped != finished but not fully tested.
     
  2. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    He's not the only one, and I'm positive that there were more than one or two people who were happy with it the way it was.
    Legal problems.
    Frankly, nobody knows if this is even Epic's fault.
    They already said client side demos were not supported (and wouldn't be).
    You ARE talking about stuff that really makes no difference, though. The game does have problems, but it's stupid to blame those problems on features that don't exist rather than problems with what is already there. I'd, frankly, rather have improved server browsing/server/custom content support than client side demo recording, personally. Not only that, but client side demo recording works, it's just unsupported and doesn't work the way you want it to.

    Additionally, this game shouldn't have features "just because previous games had these features". That's not a good reason to add something to a game, that's what leads to sequelitis.
     
  3. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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    That's not the point. The point is that openAL option is included but is broken for most people. That's unfinished implementation.

    Again, it's an example of another part of the game that wasn't properly implemented. The core of it is there, but it's extremely buggy --> unfinished.

    Uhh... I am? No one cares about the horrible server browser? Lack of modding capability? etc? :hmm:

    Client-side demo recording doesn't work for online games, and it's horribly buggy for offline games (who records themselves playing offline anyways?) Excuse me for expecting it to work "the way I want it to."

    The reverse of that is even more true: Removing functionality for the sake of avoiding "sequelitis" is stupid. If it ain't broke, why fix it? Why remove perfectly good options and functionality? I don't know about you, but I doubt preserving IA options or including cs demo recording is going to make UT3 feel too "sequely."
     
  4. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    You need a unique key for each system...
    I have a game development studio with multiple high-end workstations.
    Multiple copies allows for multiple people here to simultaneously play LAN or Internet.


    Unfinished means unplayable... entire missing components.
    Just because a UI doesn't reflect the number of exposed options that some people think it requires does not mean it is "unfinished".

    None of the things you have brought up stop you from playing the game the way it was designed and meant to be played. Can you not launch a game? Shoot a weapon? Drive a vehicle? etc.?
    If vehicles didn't turn or some of the weapons were not skinned or didn't shoot, then that would be classified as unfinished.

    Don't equate your idea of what optional or extra or enhanced feature items you think the game should have to its being "unfinished". There is a massive difference.

    By your definition many other games also fall into the "unfinished" category. As an example did you ever play Q3A? It's menu and setup screens are thinner and more poorly done than UT3 ever was. So I guess it is unfinished as well and id ripped us off... I have never seen people whining about its UI.

    If that were the case, then lack of AA means it is unfinished also.
    Does no AA stop you from playing the game?

    It's a new engine... they didn't take UT2004 and remove parts of it to release UT3.
    Why should they spend a lot of time on adding features (like demorec) that almost no one uses?
    Look back at UT200x, it had a lot of these same issues, which were then patched later (or not).


    UT Community: "Where's the game, I want the game, it's been long enough already"...
    Epic: "Ok but a lot of the optional non-game stuff won't be finished by then"...
    UT Community: "I Want The Game!"...
    Epic: "Ok, here"...
    UT Community: "Why doesn't this work the way I want? Where's this? Where's that?"... waaah!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  5. Festering Anus

    Festering Anus Cheeto Hans

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    It's epic's job to make people like UT3. Not ours.
     
  6. Sahkolihaa

    Sahkolihaa Ow...

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    So you're saying all the other PC games out there that have problems on many configurations are unfinished?
     
  7. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    That argument only works for things that nolonger makes sense, and things that where allways disliked by the fanbase, but when you start cutting away things that still make sense, and the fanbase wants, then you are not pleasing your fanbase, and you are not doing yourself any favors!

    UT3 has cut plenty of things it never should have, and i should not need to list them, it has been argued many a time before.
     
  8. [VaLkyR]Assassin

    [VaLkyR]Assassin Kidneythieves and Poets of The Fall Fan

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    Makes sense. I've never tried LAN so don't know, but does it not allow a single copy to be re-used on different machines for MP over LAN only operation? I have games like Call of Duty that allow that... obviously not for online play of course. Just interested....
     
  9. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    I lub you guys :p
     
  10. Vlad

    Vlad The Dude

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    Ya know, I would be a believer and sing to the high heavens if Epic/Creative would just fix the X-Fi OpenAL crash that has been documented since November!

    Please don't get me wrong, I want this game to succeed as the previous versions have. The sound quality from the original files, (that crash UT3), vs. the "fix" of using BlackSite's OpenAL files is like night and day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2008
  11. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    As DGUnreal said, it's not like they took UT2004 and started chipping things away from it. This is a new game on a new engine. Those features never existed, and any implementation of them in UT3 is what was WORKED UP from nothing.
    Wrong. That IS the point. Epic can't fix a problem that they don't have any control over. This is like saying that if GameSpy goes down they are responsible for it going down. This is a stupid point of view and incredibly ignorant. They are at fault for implementing Gamespy but not for GameSpy going down.

    Same with OpenAL (though without OpenAL you would have NO surround support :p).
    No, it's not at all. It is a feature that was not important to them at release and is clearly not important to them now (thus, unsupported). You can't just make things "required features for the game to be finished" at will.
    I was obviously talking about your final paragraph, which did not mention the server browser. And the game does not lack modding capability, it just lacks the modding capability of UT2004, which is not the same thing.
    I'm sorry if an unsupported feature doesn't work "the way you want it to". Are you also crying because the game doesn't include ultra neon brightskins? ;p
    Guess you need to read DGUnreal's post. And re-read it until it sinks in.
     
  12. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    FPS > *

    Good gawd brizz, I remember when I had that much free time lol.

    Looks like a lot of typing to me, when the only problem that needs to be expressed is Frames Per Second.

    Consoles don't have that problem (at least no where near to the same degree). Neither do some of the more popular titles.

    A few people may find 35-40 seconds to be "running great", if they really like the title, but if your system is squeaking out 40fps, it's dipping at cluttered times, and that's bad to most people.

    There are a lot of variables, and certain things should need to be constants before all these other comparisons are made. The cool thing about a console system is you can take two titles on it, and compare them directly.

    So if MOHAA does/did better that UC on the xbox, then arguably one could say "people prefer realism", or "MOHAA was marketed better", or "MOHAA had less bugs."

    UT3 PC sits in a very unique spot right now, because only people who are enthusiasts or in the industry (reviewers etc) can run the damned game well enough to really make an objective opinion about it. I know there are a couple other graphics intense games out there now, but none of them are even really doing well enough to the point where you can start to compare styles.
     
  13. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    What I'm getting at is that people who play PC games are starting to act like they are console games. They think that any computer should be able to run any game at the maximum possible detail settings. This is only a recent development, and probably because of the major shift to console gaming over the past several years.
     
  14. Sijik

    Sijik Snagged an item.

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    But, it does... I have to use a mutator to get the f*** rid of them.
    .........
    Regardless, I've gotten the impression that BU basically just exists to hate things now. I've stopped looking at it as, "Oh it's this or that in UT3 that made everyone here have so much fun bashing it," and started realizing that if it wasn't the UI or whatever people want to blame, then it would have been something else. UT3, and any future UT titles, are probably doomed from the start regardless of what they end up being.
    I have my doubts that a lot of community's actually exist to support the game. They exist to support their own egos and opinions, instead.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  15. Benfica

    Benfica European Redneck

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    I've seen stuff like this around:
    I don't care about that one.


    But this is the part that UT99'ers don't get:
    UT3 "failure" is your fault.
     
  16. Sijik

    Sijik Snagged an item.

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    That's just a case of people only wanting the last game they played. That always happens with sequels.
    ...........
    On a side note, I find it both embarrassing and hilarious that people always cite 2k4 as the major innovation step for Unreal, when XMP, 2k3, and UC2 beat the s*it out of it for new stuff, and they were all pretty much universally hated because of that.
    ...........
    Unfortunately, a thread like this might as well just be named, "Everyone come here and bash UT3 some more!"
    People don't want to support a game anymore. It's much more fun to hate something.
     
  17. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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    I remember dodging tank shells in Unreal and UT.
     
  18. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    It has brightskins, but not ultra neon brightskins :)
     
  19. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    I remember how nerfed the jump felt in Unreal.

    Maybe console games have skewed the relative assessment of how games should look, or play. That still doesn't change the fact that Epic has the wrong aim with graphics.

    I was playing HL2 a few months ago, and my GF looks at the game over my shoulder one evening, and makes a comment about "how much better that looks than an xbox game." She's not a gamer at all, and at a glance, that was her first through.

    HL2 runs fairly well on most machines (now anyways), and apparently, looks better "at a glance" than most stuff on the bigger console systems.

    That's where their aim should be. Best FPS possible, and still look noticeably better than the console games.

    At least then we would have more people here to debate gameplay and polish with. In the mean time, they are going to play COD4 or CS.
     
  20. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Random blanket statements with no backing kick ass!

    People want to support a game that's fun and good and all that. You can't make people like something they don't like. The very idea is retarded and totally against what the genie said in Aladdin (about how he has phenomenal cosmic power yet can't make someone fall in love).

    Example: CoD4 certainly isn't perfect. In fact, it suffers from a lot of the same issues UT3 has -- crappy server browser, gameplay designed with consoles in mind, mysterious patch that takes forever to come out, etc. Yet many people like it because it's fun. It's the #2 game behind WoW, at the moment.

    Just keep in mind that it's troll statements like yours above that keep other trolls around to argue with you. :)

    I'm not saying I'm a troll; I'm just saying. I'm sure everyone already considers me one, though. D:
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008

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