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Make People Like UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Fuzz, May 30, 2008.

  1. Soggy_Popcorn

    Soggy_Popcorn THE Irish Ninja

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    I, and many other people, don't give a sh!t about review scores. As evidenced by the sales figures and player count.

    *edit* Also, Crotale speaks some truth there.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2008
  2. Wunderbar_007

    Wunderbar_007 .Lateral Thought.

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    Agreed Crotale, and I think what COULD spice up this dying genre is just new material. To me, UT always stood out with its gameplay (movement, pace, etc.) first and foremost. Unique weapons? there are few here but sure, love em. Characters? some memorable, most aren't, still love em. Maps? some classics but most aren't, love em too. My point is however that, for future UTs, as long as the core gameplay is there, why not try something new?

    For instance, UT was never about single player and I was happy as shiat when they announced SP for UT3. It was a nice try but they can do SO much better! Characters, absolutely, include the classics but why not introduce new people? Overall, I was happy with this department in UT3 but much is still missing. Malcolm? Skjarr? Xan!? And the new people in UT3 were cool but they have no personality and barely any back-story which I think would greatly help get into the game. Now I'm not talking about making this an RPG, but if you're going to do a SP, please put some effort into it. How about a few new alien races!? Now the game types, I LOVE CTF and DM, and they must remain but why not try something totally new alongside the old classics. Onslaught was popular because it was fresh. Warfare is NOT fresh! (well, it is, but the general public won't see it) New maps? (can't complain here), a couple of new guns? new pickups?

    Anyway, I just think a game such as UT needs new things to keep it alive and LOT'S of content. Look at the hoverboard for example, I don't know anyone who hates it. It's a GREAT, NEW addition! Or how about dark walker? I'm sure many tried ut3 just to ride that thing into battle! It's awesome! We just need more of that kind of new stuff! UT3 lost the quantity and the quality of previous ut's, failure is no mystery and I personally would much rather have UT try something new and fail than remain the same and be forgotten.
     
  3. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    Dead on arrival. It's hard not to agree with a lot of the things said about UT3. I guess I should have been more clear about my agenda from the start. Have zero tolerance for discussions leading astray.

    I probably could counter argue everything said, but then again, what's the point? I mean, the only people hanging around here are the critics, not the good doers.

    Community opinions does change the market and utilization of the game. People with poor computers or lack of in-game skill winded up here. Unable to do anything else but hang around and complain all day long.

    If all you can do is whine you really should do that elsewhere, about something totally different.

    The Unreal series being a small niche game universe implies that only people that like it play the games. People like the theme more frequently if there are no demeaning comments about the product. All potential players came to the forums and ruined the game completely.

    For instance, I didn't think there were anything wrong with the game until I started reading about it on the forums.

    The forum crash didn't help that much either, we just lost a generation of gamers in the blink of an eye.

    What's expressed here is not very helpful or productive. What people really need to hear is that UT3 is great. Period. It's cool and skillful to play the game.

    I have to underline it so it becomes crystal clear. People play Unreal Tournament III if they are supported by the community. Some stupid things can be debated indefinitely and that's what's going down most of the time here, so don't give in to that. Epic can't patch a game that's already tweaked and good. Epic can't support issues that all kind of morons come up with. As soon as the game hits the shelves the ball is in our court.

    Now, go play Unreal Tournament III and enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  4. toniglandyl

    toniglandyl internal data fragmentation : 62203480%

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    +1 sadly.
    I really love UT3, but TOB is really better. we see the polish there.

    I never refuse to play UT3 when invited to. unless I'm busy (which is very often)
     
  5. Leonardo

    Leonardo Old fart on top the mountain.....

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    I don't give a **** what people think I still play the damn games why? Becuase I like them. UT thru UT3 I play them all when I can. Me and my friends and even my clanmates we love the UT Franshise and all the games not just a few becuase of popularity the games themselves have offered quite a number of opitions tools and gameplay to keep anyone entertained. Thats just my perspective on it.
     
  6. Anisotonic

    Anisotonic New Member

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    I am too unsatisfied with the technical aspects of the game to try and make my friends endure the same level of pain in the ass as me. furthermore none of my friends game with stereo speakers anymore
     
  7. cubemario

    cubemario Cubely Wrath

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    "Spread the word UT3 is a great game."

    See, that's the thing. UT3 isn't a great game, it's an average one. That's why nobody is playing it.
     
  8. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    If the quality of a game determined it's popularity, then Halo would be empty and Psychonauts would have sold billions of units. The point is, quality very rarely has anything to do with how popular a game is.

    And saying nobody would play UT3 if it was given away for free is ludicrous. How many people do you know that would refuse a free game?
     
  9. IronMan(Erie)

    IronMan(Erie) Member

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    To back up Sir Brizz, lots of people seem to enjoy America's Army, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Warsow, Hidden & Dangerous: Deluxe, Runescape and other MMO's and people are eagerly awaiting Battlefield: Heroes, Quake Live and OpenMoh:AA.
    These are some examples of popular free games that the focus is the gameplay and has good quality (except Runescape ;))
     
  10. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    But that's not really true, they made it very hard to mod UT3, and there is no foundation for alot of the mods we used to make.

    * Playermodels, its possible, but very hard now, and putting them into the games interface is just messed up.
    * Skins, very hard, as we cannot choose skins in the ingame menus, and making a new one is no longer as easy as copying an UPL file and replacing the default locations with our own, its all messed up.
    * Voicepacks, not supported, we cannot choose a voice for our playermodels ingame.
    * Maps, definately doable, but the bar has really been raised, it is very time consuming.
    * Mutators, doable, but not as easy as it used to be.
    * TC mods, not supported? it seems that nobody knows how to do it, or if it's even possible.

    UT3 has alot of problems when it comes to mods, its very hard to make the mods we can, and others are just not supported at all, it is not a good mod platform, there is too much you cannot do, and the rest is way too hard for all but thouse who use it as a stepping stone to land a job in the biz.
    I really hope that Epic can do something about that in patches, because right now, UT3 is not a very good foundation for any other mods than maps and mutators.
    Launching the MSUC before thease issues where ironed out was also a really bad move IMO.
     
  11. Lostsoul

    Lostsoul boobs

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    Steal a nuke and threaten the world to play.
     
  12. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    HAY. I've arrived to kill another thread, apparently. Truth is such a thread killer. :)

    Free UT3 probably wouldn't be played. Those other free games someone listed out on the previous page are either A) easy on the system requirements or B) of a style today's gamers enjoy (war shooters or MMOs).
     
  13. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    Unfinished is not the same as fully untested (un-bugged).

    UT3 is easier to pick up and play for a newbie than BF2142 or Crysis...

    Personal taste.
    UT3 would be in my top three played along with Burnout (Xbox) and FEAR (sp and mp). Q3A still comes in after those, and before UT2004.
    I would play BF2142 more but it has just too many issues (much worse than UT3's whined about UI, etc!). It was released Oct 2006, basically a year earlier than UT3, and it still has so many problems that I usually don't bother playing it, even though I really like the game, the maps, etc.
    I couldn't get more than half way through GoW before quitting, it is worse than Unreal 2 for recycled map look and game linearity (spawn in map, find direction to exit point, kill everything in between -- and the enemy spawn points are really badly telegraphed so they are easy to get a camp-'n'-kill every time).
    I didn't care for Crysis at all.
    etc...

    The industry has had a major swing over to consoles at around the time of all of those sequel games.

    We will see a UT4, for numerous reasons.

    It takes considerably more work on UE3/UT3 to create a CS or TF though.
    Perhaps the mod finalists and runner-ups in MSUC will be able to maintain sufficient momentum to release some good UT3 mods. Whether they will become a CS is difficult to say... :)

    Well I hope he reads how I much prefer playing UT3 over GoW. :)
    The only reason GoW is still on my game system is because I have plenty of HD space and I'm waiting for Epic to give a nod to pulling content across to UT3 (although I don't think they will).

    The DM and CTF are fine. Those are staples of the fps gaming genre.
    As far as the rest, it needs a bit of "expanding" (not necessarily "innovation") on the rest of the game types into the best points of UT3+BF2142+Tribes...

    When the original UT2007 warfare enhanced mode was announced, it generated a lot of positive buzz, however it was not delivered unfortunately.

    UT3 needed WAR to support a 64 player larger "warfare", with troop transports (ground, air and water) and water-based vehicles (transport and individual), a few additional weapons, actual deployables and not just the statically placed ammo/heath, the player models needed at least three classes based on the model design that affected their speed/armor/etc. so that a skinny chic in leather can't take the same damage as a massive dude laden with armor but she can run rings around him for speed and endurance. etc...
    Many of the current popular online team games support these types of gameplay additional depth and interaction.
    UT3 WAR was basically ONS with added Orb and boards.

    And anyone thinking this couldn't be integrated into WAR without killing the existing ONS/WAR and VCTF is wrong. Just like all of the existing game modes can have maps designed with widely varying play area sizes, the chosen actor/pickup/vehicle use and placement in a map would determine what style of play would be supported. Newbie community mappers would have to be taught what actors to use, but that is not too difficult. To make things easier, ONS could have been left in as it was in UT2004 and had the added Orb and board, and WAR could have been a new game type that supported 64 players, transport vehicles, deployables, etc., which would have kept those actors associated with that game type.

    When IG/Vivendi released T:V I stopped playing UT2004 and went over to it, simply because it offered this extra depth to it. Unfortunately Vivendi pulled the plug on the game.

    Now some of this functionality could be added by community mods etc., but they for the most part won't become mainstream with UT3, simply because only a small percentage of the community ever plays mods. Even most of the servers are still only running stock maps.
    For something like this to take hold, it would have to be released by Epic as a massive bonus pack for a new game type, or on something like a GOTY re-release.

    Probably not going to happen. A lot of the issue is that it is just much more technical and time-consuming to create good and proper content for current engines like UE3. It takes a team of people really versed in UE3's operation to create something good with it. It also requires a lot of knowledge and experience with other external tools (ie. Max/Maya, etc.). I don't mean this to sound egocentric but search the Epic forums for my nic and read some of the technical replies I have given -- I don't expect many casual community mappers to even follow my posts. Anyone who is in the Epic licensee area will see posts from Epic that are even way above that. I see experienced people working at game studios having a time getting all of the technical stuff down with the engine, so what hope does that offer a casual community mapper.

    I bought multiple UT3 copies. Most of my friends bought copies (and still play UT3 every now and then). Not everyone can be painted with that brush you are holding... ;)
     
  14. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    I have to agree that the games in the UT series ain't much alike. There are recurring sceneries, races, characters and weapons. The graphics are way different, but it all generally feels Unreal.

    Truth is relative, so pick the one that fits your cause. Different truths can be prioritized in many ways. People can be lured to believe in many things, so why not make people like UT3? We can even do so with good intentions and speaking the truth.

    Another general point of view. If it's Unreal, it's great. Even if the hardware or software is mediocre. If we encourage people to play it they will do so. Helping them deal with all the issues with this new and complex engine serves them well in the long run anyway. Make sure they have the latest drivers and the optimum configurations, etc. Once they start playing it properly they will have momentum enough to continue. They should even be able to gather more players around UT3.

    I'll finish off for now with some questions.

    Gears of War is way more popular but it has the same engine. Did Gears flop on PC? Did UT3 flop on PS3?

    Did auto-taunt kill the franchise? The game does not practice good sportsmanship so why should anyone of us?

    What about Epics mere attitude. Did that lead to the game's demise?
     
  15. Big-Al

    Big-Al amateur de bière

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    motion blur is annoying.
     
  16. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    I wouldn't quite call it demised. The problem is that there's so many shooters pulling so many people. UT3 had to compete against COD4 and TF2 and that HAS pulled away a lot of players, in a similar fashion to how WoW caused a considerable drop in UT2004 players when it was released (So much so that there was actually a group of Anti-WoW protestors on BuF. I know Hyru and Slayerdragon were in it, not sure about others...)

    A bit of the problem is, indeed, UT3's fairly steep graphics requirements. You can definitely play TF2 on UT2004-era hardware, and COD4 is only a bit higher.

    Another bit of the problem is the unfortunate design decision to change things up considerably in the UI department. It's like going from UT to UT2003 again - I remember VERY similar gripes. No UWindows. Everything was consolized. Tons of menus for stupid options... people were playing UT and not UT2003, but even that had a small, die-hard core of players. Is anyone else seeing the same thing?

    I'll hope though, that rather than go a "Fixed" route with UT2004, that Epic instead simply develops UT3 fully. IIRC the main reason they made UT2004 into a standalone game was they had to completely break the netcode to accomodate vehicles. They wouldn't need to do that for UT3 obviously, but if they're going to do something like how they planned Conquest they'll probably need to tweak it a bit, for example.

    It's kind of weird... the more things change, the more they stay the same. I wasn't here for UT2003's heyday (mostly because my PC could run it at 20 FPS if I was lucky) but I can definitely see some parallel similarities between 2003 <-> 2004 and UT3 now. The only question is will they make UT4 to "fix" the issues so many people seem to have with UT3, or are they going to keep updating UT3 into what they pretty much wanted it to be? Only time will tell...
     
  17. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Who the heck thinks gamers are "demanding innovation"? There hasn't been a popular innovative game for several years, literally. If anything gamers are "demanding" the same games they've been playing for years with a few more features like achievements and leveling. If you don't believe that is true, look at the number of people playing the same crappy MMOs and Counter Strike today. It's gone UP dramatically over the last few years, and, arguably, those games aren't even entertaining or good.
     
  18. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    Brizz, innovation is a broad term. Innovation could mean gameplay or graphics. Take gameplay, how many times have we seen in recent weeks alone that if Warfare was as Conquest was supposed to have been, UT3 might have been a more popular game? A lot of players got turned off by the ONS 2.0 we got with UT3, as it was not innovative enough for some. Of course, some players have complained that they'd rather go back to ONS 1.0 and a separate Assault mode.

    On the flipside, I have seen quite a few gamers complain that UT3's graphics are maybe too innovative, as in too much of a departure from the previous games. They ask why the high poly count when most of us can't even run the game at a respectable enough level to enjoy the extra work put into the game's graphics?
     
  19. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I know they do, but gamers are much more demanding all around this time than before. I've never had a UT game run well at nominal resolutions when it came out on my machine, and I'd guess most people are in that same boat. However, THIS TIME it's a problem, and apparently wasn't in the past. I submit that people just think they should be able to run ANY game at 1600x1200 at 120fps no matter what their system is. I have seen this in just about every sector of gaming these days, people just don't care about their system specs anymore.

    The fact is, if you turn down your res/details in UT3, it will run pretty well on older systems. In fact, I've got it running on a machine here that is a P4 3.0 with 5950Ultra and 1.5gb RAM and it runs great (around 35-40fps) at low details at 800x600. On my machine, which is an Athlon64x2 3200+, 2gb RAM, 8800GTS 320mb I can run just about any map at 1280x1024 with max details and get around 60fps. The game runs good, people just are unwilling to run the game at the settings which are appropriate for their systems. And it's not exclusive to UT3, either. People are trying to do this on most games that I follow.

    As far as innovation goes, I realize there are a lot of things that a game can innovate upon, but that doesn't really make it an "innovative game". Crysis has really good graphics, though I'd hardly call them "innovative", and the gameplay is so stale that I can't imagine saying that anything in that game is really innovative.
     
  20. [VaLkyR]Assassin

    [VaLkyR]Assassin Kidneythieves and Poets of The Fall Fan

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    WHY?? I wouldn't do that for any game - have you got loads of money to waste or something?
     

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