KSK uses their AR with ACOG and NL

[TitanBlue]

Can we say that the G36 DualCombatSight with optical 3.5x comes near to an ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight)?

Lately i've seen a TV-Documentation about the German KSK (Kommando Spezialkraefte - trained by GSG9, US SOF and UK SAS and welcomed in the international club of special forces since June '98) using their H&K G36 together with the H&K AG36 40mm-nadelauncher, mounted below the barrel. I'm sure Puncher can proof this.

Conclusion: KSK uses their AR with ACOG and NL

Why am i telling this?

There were - and sure still are - some threads where people claim that no army uses this combination in RL. At least one does.

I can understand the argument that using the launcher in INF with the ACOG instead of the launcher's sight (cause we don't have it in INF) is incorrect. I'd like to use this M16/ACOG/M203-combo but i don't do it - fair play instead of full power


TitanBlue

 

[The_Fur]

it's not like you can't find shots of a m16+acog+m203 either, they are usually publicity shots.

 

[TitanBlue]

I know Fur, but this is a shot from KSK-Training. I've seen it


TitanBlue

 

[The_Fur]

and the acog is not the same as the integral scope on the g36, the g36 still has iron sights on top which you can use in conjunction with any flip-up sights right? while the acog is mounted on top of the carying handle effectively obsucring the sights and vice versa.

 

[striderteen]

You really don't get it, or do you not want to get it?

As far as I have been able to determine with a rather exhaustive search of military records and databases, mostly but not exclusively online, NO ONE uses an ACOG or any other kind of telescopic sight to aim grenades.

Based on the word of many people on these forums who know a lot more about guns than either you or I, NO ONE uses an ACOG or any other kind of telescopic sight to aim grenades.

According to the first-hand experience of a few dozen soldiers or former soldiers who have actually USED the guns in question, NO ONE uses an ACOG or any other kind of telescopic sight to aim grenades.


The G-36 HAS the ACOG-style sight present along with the 'nade launcher...but that's only because it's BUILT INTO the gun. But you don't use that sight to aim the AG36; you use either the iron sights or an attached quadrant/tangent sight.

 

[poaw]

Striderteen, Titanblue was in the German army as you can see from his sig.

Anyway, back to the point at hand. Because I don't have much firsthand knowledge about KSK field operations I can only theorize about why they would put a grenade launcher on a G36.

• The weapon might not be loaded with grenades. A lot of different loads exist for a 40mm grenade launcher, like buckshot and signalling and illumantion flares.
• The old tried and true "publicity shot" argument. It can't really be applied here because the German Armed Forces use the G36 almost exclusively, and also use the AG36. So unless they make extensive modifactions to the weapons then line units probably receive the same configuration.
• Lastly, maybe they just make do without an effective means to aim and fire their 40mm grenades.

 

[Trevor_Clim]

i have a pic where you can see the H&K launcher a bit more:

 

[TitanBlue]

Originally posted by The_Fur
and the acog is not the same as the integral scope on the g36, the g36 still has iron sights on top which you can use in conjunction with any flip-up sights right? while the acog is mounted on top of the carying handle effectively obsucring the sights and vice versa.

The G36 DoubleCombatSight has NO iron sights Fur! Only the "export-version" has emergency iron-sights. The AG36 launcher has a ladder sight



Ehm Striderteen, perhaps YOU don't get it... Who claimed that someone uses ACOG for aiming with the nadelauncher in RL?? I didn't, so don't flame me.

Well, i'm not a RL armourer like Tiffy (Hi Buddy *wink*) but i actually was a RL soldier operating with RL weapons like some others here. I do, but I don't need to listen to words "of many people on these forums who know a lot more about guns than either you or I", I think I HAVE some first-hand experience, not only from the army:

Walther P1/P38 9x19mm
SIG/SAUER P225 .45
SIG/SAUER P225 9x19mm
SIG/SAUER P226 9x19mm
Glock 17 9x19mm
MP2 (UZI) 9x19mm
Benelli S90
H&K G3A3 7,62x51 NATO
H&K G3A4 7,62x51 NATO
H&K MG3 7,62x51mm NATO
DM41/DM51 Frag
LePzFst 44mm (with 67mm Warhead - yeah!!! )
...and while i was active i had ONE single miss with the P1, firing several hundred rounds.

wanna have more? okok, no flamewar Striderteen, heres my hand. Just read my *complete* posting.

And thanks for ya help poaw :tup:, i was still typing

I think this G36 on the pic was a special KSK configuration and not one for the "normal" soldier. The G36C, and this was one, has usually no DualCombatSight. And as I said above: The AG36 has a ladder-sight, KSK will not use the G36's sight to aim

TitanBlue

 

[striderteen]

Sorry about that, TitanBlue, I was in a rather nasty mood following several heated and pointless INF-ingame chat arguments about the M-203+ACOG combo. So I kinda flew off the handle when I saw a post that appeared to justify that combo.

Mea maxima culpa, as you'd say in Latin.

 

[TitanBlue]

Noprob Strider, i'll always give peace a chance

Trevor_Clim, i've seen this pic also on HKPRO, looks like the configuration the KSK-soldier above has. With one buckshot in the lower barrel this could really be a cool and perhaps perfect (but butt-ugly, M16+M203 is mucho sexier ) entry weapon.


TitanBlue

 

[BIG_MONKEY_JR]

Am I allowed to use the M16+Acog+M203 if I don't use the Acog to aim the M203? plus I only use if for buildings. I think lots of the arguments are getting mixed up. We have come to the conclusion already that you don't aim the m203 with a scope, but (I don't know about guns) maybe they have them on a gun at the same time and use other means of aiming the m203.

 

[The_Fur]

like what? the sights for the 203 block the acog so you can't use the acog and you can't use the 203 either. great isn't it

 

[striderteen]

I think he means the M-203 + ACOG, but fire the -203 from hipped position only.

 

[The_Fur]

and you don't do that if you want to hit anything, IRL.

 

[Goat Fucker]

People need to seperate special forces and army, they are not the same beast, and carry very different weapons and even use them in different manners, as their missions differ.

I dont have any problem with people using the M16a2+Acog+M203, what i do have a problem with is EVERYONE using it at the same time, and the way they use it.

If we for the argument include only the M16a2, and we have a special force of 6 men infiltrating some undetermented place, only one of them would carry the M16a2+Acog+M203, and he's role would be clouse range sniper and and cover fire (40mm nades usually takes the attention away from youre freinds going in, and out again), and if the mission calls for more heavy firepower one more would carry the M203, but without the Acog, as his role is not that of sniper.

Now weather or not the Acog is used for aiming the M203...no it shouldent be, but you will find people who do, no doubt about that, as the M203 has never had a reliable sigthing system made for the M16a2, thouse flip-up sights are horrid.

 

[striderteen]

Originally posted by Goat ****er
Now weather or not the Acog is used for aiming the M203...no it shouldent be, but you will find people who do, no doubt about that, as the M203 has never had a reliable sigthing system made for the M16a2, thouse flip-up sights are horrid.

Are you speaking from personal experience here? If not, where did you read/hear that?

 

[The_Fur]

It was allready stated several times that you can't use the acog to aim the 203 so that would be BS.

 

[LoTekK]

dude, i don't know where you get your info, coz that's the biggest load of bullshit i've heard in a long while... you're certainly welcome to try aiming through an acog (or any scope, for that matter), but i guarantee you you're better off closing your eyes, pulling the trigger, and praying it hits somewhere within a 200m vicinity of your intended target...

as for the ladder sight, i can tell you straight up just how "ineffective" it is... it took some practice at the grenade range, but i could quite effectively put a 40mm through a normal-sized window at about 80-100m... the same ladder sights (well, more or less, you know what i mean) on the m79 were also used in vietnam by proficient grenadiers to put 40mms into windows at ranges even beyond that... now try that while looking through a damned scope...

 

[Goat Fucker]

Allmost everyone i have spoken to, both IRL and over the 'net that has fired one says the opposite, i think i have met two people to date that diddent hate the flip-up sight with all their heart.

Go ask Shakken what he feels about the flip-ups, i dare you.

And what are you really calling bulls<b></b>hit here? i said the Acog is not MENT to be used with the M203, and it issent, but that wont stop people from doing it, and it doesen.

 

[striderteen]

Doesn't stop people from doing it IN GAME, but no way do people do that IRL...because it's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!