Epic's Mike Capps: We Love PC, But...

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

zynthetic

robot!
Aug 12, 2001
2,947
0
36
zynthetic.com
Piracy is forcing the industry to change their business model because it's filling a void by exploiting things that people want out of entertainment that are not being provided by a majority of the industry.

What's going to happen is not unlike any civilization presented with an ever present dilemma that threatens their future. Piracy isn't killing PC gaming. It's Execs driving their own companies into the ground because they refuse to change the way they do business.
 
Last edited:

Benfica

European Redneck
Feb 6, 2006
2,004
0
0
Since most only care about shooters, could you guys please list console exclusive fps besides Gears 2 and Halo 3. It's not a rhetoric question, I really don't know.
 

Hideinlight

Member
May 12, 2008
358
0
16
Did I mention HoN also has a MAC and Linux native support?

That there's currently two big upcoming tournaments for it
40 000$ GG world cup tournament.
20 000$ Dreamhack tournament which just happens to be the biggest LAN in the world.

And that they went as far as to partner with Garena to supply HoN as f2p for countries in SEA. A market that every other game developer just ignores.

That the devs are very active in forum discussions even though 90% of them are whine threads and even play online themselves from time to time.

The PC market has changed and so far only Blizzard and S2Games have adjusted to it. They've realized that the world is bigger than just the US and the importance of a kick- ass multi-player platform with revolutionary netcode and fully functional adequate social features.


I'm never gonna get over UT3...
Consoles = Easier money where the traditional approach still works.
Just don't blame piracy if a console port doesn't do as well as suspected...

Anyone remember this story?
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/38443/40-Million-Unreal-Tournament-3-Pirates

What if EPIC took a different approach to this situation and instead implemented a system within the game where you could buy a valid cd key online for $30 via paypal.

Just a thought.
end Rant.
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
12
38
Anywhere But Here
I'm never gonna get over UT3...
Consoles = Easier money where the traditional approach still works.
Just don't blame piracy if a console port doesn't do as well as suspected...

Anyone remember this story?
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/38443/40-Million-Unreal-Tournament-3-Pirates

What if EPIC took a different approach to this situation and instead implemented a system within the game where you could buy a valid cd key online for $30 via paypal.

Just a thought.
end Rant.

That story was bunk. Epic never claimed the 40 million or any other number. The author of the story fabricated the numbers for effect. As a matter of fact, Mark Rein stated he never made a claim about 40 million attempts and that he knew of no such number in that regard, nor did he know where the author got his "facts".

If you are going to use a story against Epic, at least use one where the facts have been verified.
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
12
38
Anywhere But Here
It's been said elsewhere. A great deal of those "pirates" are probably people who either don't have a credit card/paypal or are too paranoid to use it. Also people download the setups fom different PCs/IPs.
Still makes them pirates (thieves), even if you want to put the " " around the word. Stealing is stealing, whether the value of the product or service is 1 penny or 1 thousand dollars.
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
1,164
0
0
Still makes them pirates (thieves), even if you want to put the " " around the word. Stealing is stealing, whether the value of the product or service is 1 penny or 1 thousand dollars.

Stealing requires loss of property.
If I take a high-res picture of a painting in a museum, have I stolen that painting?

Sure, it's pedantic, but piracy =/= stealing.
Similarly, target market =/= all the people that want your product.
Target market = all the people that want, can afford and would eventually buy your product.

Ignoring those last two conditions is what results in these ridiculous articles, as well as some of the bullcrap lawsuits that RIAA are pulling off.
 
Last edited:

Zxanphorian

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Jul 1, 2002
4,480
0
36
34
PA USA
Visit site
Piracy is forcing the industry to change their business model because it's filling a void by exploiting things that people want out of entertainment that are not being provided by a majority of the industry.

What's going to happen is not unlike any civilization presented with an ever present dilemma that threatens their future. Piracy isn't killing PC gaming. It's Execs driving their own companies into the ground because they refuse to change the way they do business.

Exactly. There will always be people, constant or not, to circumnavigate laws, restrictions, regulations, policies, etc. What the groups that create the policies should do, is to find incentives so that that same set of people wouldn't need to do the circumnavigation. This way the truly responsible people wouldn't also be screwed over by the sweeping policy. This is why Ubisoft does not have my $50-60 for Assassin's Creed II.

Red Dead Redemption and the new Dead to Rights games are a couple recent ones.

Red Dead Redemption should be interesting. The Western genre hasn't been that well developed in gaming.
 
Last edited:

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
Still makes them pirates (thieves), even if you want to put the " " around the word. Stealing is stealing, whether the value of the product or service is 1 penny or 1 thousand dollars.
That said, though, we have to consider that piracy of the Indie Bundle is quite a bit different than normal piracy.

First of all, the site said "name your price", which could easily be read as "I can pay nothing" by certain people.

Second, there are people that were excluded by regional restrictions. Yes, they are pirating, but their reasoning is not the same as your typical pirate.

Third, the statistical analysis understandably cannot account for people who downloaded the products from multiple IP addresses. I know that I personally would have been viewed as three separate IPs despite all three downloads being legitimate.

Fourth, the analysis fails to account for people who downloaded each game multiple times (to get each of the clients).

As a final point, yes. People pirated the bundle. But saying it was 25% is probably a vast overexaggeration and just spreads more FUD about how serious the piracy problem is.

My opinion is, no matter what you do your products will be pirated. So how about servicing your legitimate paying customers first and THEN worry about the people stealing? The ones paying might keep paying, unless you throw them under the bus. The ones stealing won't even notice you're there.

Capps is just up to his old tricks, making excuses now so that when Gears 3 PC doesn't happen, nobody will be shocked. The problem is, there are companies making a decent amount of money on PC development. Modern Warfare 2 sold a boatload of units. I'm sure every Valve game has raked it in on PC, as well. If you make an awesome game, with a superb launch, great long term support, and don't talk to your customers like they are idiots, you're bound to have success on PC. Who cares what the pirates do? Epic does pretty well at interfacing with the community (in general) and they have great long term support for all of their games, but releasing something in the state UT3 was in at launch is seriously beneath them. I just hope that they have figured that out at this point. It sure seems like they have.
 

N1ghtmare

Sweet Dreams
Jul 17, 2005
2,411
12
38
Where least expected
I do hate pirates for being lazy ****s who caused this problem in the first place, but it should be noted that many of the pirates are from third-world countries and would not have bought it anyway. It may be better to put pirates into the perspective of people who have access to purchase games.
 

KillerSkaarj

Art for swans is dope!
Jan 24, 2008
486
0
0
With the way these idiot devs are treating PC games, it's no f***ing wonder most of the money is at the consoles. Nobody wants to deal with the DRM crap.

And how the hell do they lose money from pirating? Do they lose one potential customer every time said customer pirates a game? How can he be a potential customer if he never intended to pay for your game in the first place!? It's not like he's stealing your disks, he's just downloading the software.
 

Blaaguuu

taunt pthrust
May 27, 2002
248
0
0
Earshot of monkeys
Visit site
Piracy is definitely a big issue in PC gaming, and a fast growing issue in console gaming... But I think the biggest thing hurting (not killing - PC gaming isn't dying anytime soon) PC gaming is poor PC ports. Just look at Battlefield: Bad Company 2 - They put a good amount of effort into the PC version, with a totally redesigned menu, and general UI, a few PC-specific balance changes, and *gasp* marketed the PC version specifically, rather than advertising as "Available on Xbox 360 and Playstation 3", and tacking on a tiny Windows logo. And guess what... The PC version sold like hotcakes - Even more than the console versions, if I recall correctly, but I don't feel like looking that up again.
 

Airmoran

Construct
Nov 9, 2004
2,075
0
0
So he picked piracy. Big whup. It doesn't mean he isn't aware of all the other factors in the mix.

PC games can do well these days. But it's a shifting market. MMOs are in, casual games are on the rise, and the Sims franchise is unstoppable. The types of games Epic makes are increasingly seen as console games and have lost broad appeal on PCs. Hell, it no longer makes sense for me to buy a multiplatform, multiplayer game for the PC as I know most players, including my friends, have it on the xbox. Given that, it wouldn't surprise me if ratio of pirated-to-legit copies for Epic's PC games continue plummeting. After all, the appeal of buying a PC game may be lost, but it's not like pirating a game requires much interest.

Anyways, that's a side point. It's a interview to promote a product, a company, or whatever. If someone asks me why my company doesn't make PC games anymore and my responses was between piracy or stating "oh, it's because people don't want to play our games anymore", something tells me I'd go with piracy.
 

Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
12
38
Anywhere But Here
Stealing requires loss of property.

Not really. Ever heard of theft of services, or theft of intellectual property? Property isn't always tangible.

If I take a high-res picture of a painting in a museum, have I stolen that painting?

Actually, yes, in some cases. Depends on the owner and whether or not they give you permission to take the photograph of private property.

Sure, it's pedantic, but piracy =/= stealing.

Then please, define piracy if it is not theft of some sort of goods or services.


Similarly, target market =/= all the people that want your product.
Target market = all the people that want, can afford and would eventually buy your product.

Ignoring those last two conditions is what results in these ridiculous articles, as well as some of the bullcrap lawsuits that RIAA are pulling off.

Not really. The RIAA has every right to go after those who would illegally obtain copyrighted works of which the copyright owners have the final say over how, when, and to whom their products are distributed.

The problem with the RIAA and their cohorts was that they initially refused to accept social change that came with the advent of the world wide web. While that makes them idiots, it still does not change the fact that pirating music is illegal. Same goes for software.

That said, though, we have to consider that piracy of the Indie Bundle is quite a bit different than normal piracy.

First of all, the site said "name your price", which could easily be read as "I can pay nothing" by certain people.
This I can understand, but this...

Second, there are people that were excluded by regional restrictions. Yes, they are pirating, but their reasoning is not the same as your typical pirate.
Should not matter if your region is excluded from sales or distribution of a product, the copyright owner has final say in the matter.

Third, the statistical analysis understandably cannot account for people who downloaded the products from multiple IP addresses. I know that I personally would have been viewed as three separate IPs despite all three downloads being legitimate.

Fourth, the analysis fails to account for people who downloaded each game multiple times (to get each of the clients).

As a final point, yes. People pirated the bundle. But saying it was 25% is probably a vast overexaggeration and just spreads more FUD about how serious the piracy problem is.
Hard to say what the real number was, I guess, but the fact goes to show that people are lazy, greedy and uncaring about others. I know, it's a shocker. :rolleyes:

My opinion is, no matter what you do your products will be pirated. So how about servicing your legitimate paying customers first and THEN worry about the people stealing? The ones paying might keep paying, unless you throw them under the bus. The ones stealing won't even notice you're there.
I could not agree more. DRM and other such crap as Star...whatever it was that killed three of my hard drives, does little to nothing to thwart pirating, but it does a great disservice to legitimate customers.

Capps is just up to his old tricks, making excuses now so that when Gears 3 PC doesn't happen, nobody will be shocked. The problem is, there are companies making a decent amount of money on PC development. Modern Warfare 2 sold a boatload of units. I'm sure every Valve game has raked it in on PC, as well. If you make an awesome game, with a superb launch, great long term support, and don't talk to your customers like they are idiots, you're bound to have success on PC. Who cares what the pirates do? Epic does pretty well at interfacing with the community (in general) and they have great long term support for all of their games, but releasing something in the state UT3 was in at launch is seriously beneath them. I just hope that they have figured that out at this point. It sure seems like they have.

While I'm with you on the state of UT3 when it was released, I am not convinced that was fully Epic's fault or doing. On the other part, whether Mike was doing some advanced "damage control" or not, Gears is pretty much a solid franchise. Could Epic bungle the release? Sure, but odds are they won't. And with Microsoft backing the effort and paying for ads, etc., it will sell well on the 360.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
Should not matter if your region is excluded from sales or distribution of a product, the copyright owner has final say in the matter.

Hard to say what the real number was, I guess, but the fact goes to show that people are lazy, greedy and uncaring about others. I know, it's a shocker. :rolleyes:
I'm actually not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that, even if his number was 100% accurate, it is hard to draw any conclusions about piracy from the bundle. There are way too many confounding factors.
While I'm with you on the state of UT3 when it was released, I am not convinced that was fully Epic's fault or doing. On the other part, whether Mike was doing some advanced "damage control" or not, Gears is pretty much a solid franchise. Could Epic bungle the release? Sure, but odds are they won't. And with Microsoft backing the effort and paying for ads, etc., it will sell well on the 360.
I don't think Capps is worried about Gears 3 sales, I think he's trying to damage control Epic's position as a global PC game vendor. I was mostly referring to Bulletstorm and whatever Epic's next PC game will be (because you know they are working on one).

As for UT3, I don't know where the blame falls, but it is a perfect example of how no amount of long term support can revive a game from a bad launch.