DM-FromHell

[WebSlinger]

Basically Tonn, your post was rude, and I think that is why angelmapper was flaming you. It has little to do with your opinion, to which you are entitled, but your post came across like this...

"OMG j00 SUXX0rz at TEH GAEMpLAE!?!!11 j00 need to stop making mutiplayer maps because I am too easily offended and even more easily annoyed by stuff that really doesn't matter!!! OMGOMG!" When you go for the exaggerated melodrama, opinion becomes irrelevant bitter ramblings.

I actually enjoyed this map as a 1on1 because of the atmosphere and suspense involved, but put about 6 people in it, and it became just messy.

looks amazing

 

[sHoKaZuLu]

So you think this is really a map with gameplay?
I'd really appreciate when you tell me why.

But I don't expect any good reply, because I just said what I think, without pissing on anybody and you just flamed me out from nowhere.

Obviously you don't understand AngelHearts work. IMO, his maps don't have much to do with game-play, but instead are works of art while mimicking real world details & dimensions.

Also, there is NO single player naming conventions for maps in UT2003, so why the hell do you ask him to create his maps as single player only?

If you don't like his maps, don't download them, and don't play them online. Simple really.

Oh, and this map Kicks butt by the way!

 

[hal]

Tonnberry, I think that if you were trying to provide helpful advice, your point will probably be lost due to your first statement. Though, I don't think Angelheart was really looking for advice.

We all know what to expect from his maps, and that he maps the way he wants to. Just chalk it up to creative differences.

 

[Hanover_Fist]

So you think this is really a map with gameplay?
I'd really appreciate when you tell me why.

So, you edit your first post to include some detailed critiques so your second post where you ask "tell me why", doesn't make you look like a jerk. I read your post yesterday and was going to say something but I let it go, I figured you need a nap.

But you're back, rolling your eyes again.

Angelheart never said his map had gameplay. Did you even look at the "read" text file that came with the map?

I'll quote it for you.

"How does it play? well I'm a terrible judge of this kind of thing, but I ran around for
a good while and I always got shot at and found plenty to shoot. The bots get stuck
now and again but seem to navigate quite well even in the very small corridors and doorways.
Hard core DM players will probably hate this map all the way to hell, as I've made sure there's plenty of stuff to get court up on in just about every area. I kind of imagined it more for
Lan setups, and those who like me, love to creep around a map looking for surprises
Like all my maps its not really finished, I could have gone on adding meshes for another
month or so, but its nearing Halloween and, well, thats as good a reason as any to stop "

Angelhearts maps are free.

If you don't like them, delete them.

 

[SkaarjMaster]

Classic! This thread and the map! :tup:

 

[Zlal]

Angleheart, you should really think about collaborating with someone and making one of those movies that use the ut2003 engine. As it is, there are a lot of people who rubbish your maps because they are under the "Dm-" name and it doesn't play well as a Deathmatch map.
I know this isn't what the guy is trying to acheive, but still, it's not like it has to be under the deathmatch name.

Heh, why is it always deathmatch anyway? Surely you could make a ctf piece of art

Stop giving Tonnberry a hard time. He is a mapper, and a damn good one - when you work professionally you look at things from a different angle. Same for reviewers.

Yes, he probably could have said it nicely, but oh well.

 

[Zlal]

Btw... all thsese bloody people with angel in their names... ffs.

Now you made me think of anglemouse. And dangermouse. ARGRgghhh

 

[jon]

I really don't see why it should bother anyone what I do, or the way I do it. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, if I find something I like the taste of, I'm not going to stop liking it just because its not cooked in a certain way. Of course some "professional" cooks sometimes don't like the fact that sometimes food can be enjoyed even when not cooked in what they believe to be is the correct manner. Its just a fun thing to do, why make a meal of it.

 

[Shuriken]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, if I find something I like the taste of, I'm not going to stop liking it just because its not cooked in a certain way. Of course some "professional" cooks might not like the fact that some food can be enjoyed even when not cooked in what they believe to be the correct manner. That's their problem, me I'll just go on cooking in the same old way cause I enjoy it because some people seem to like it

lol, nice metaphor

 

[etihomephone]

Gameplay is a very important part of mapping, if you don't do it, it's your problem but why not???. and don't blame tonnberry because of what he said, he is true. Also on contrasts, using all warm and same is bad.

 

[DavidM]

evil tonnberry, dont dare to say negative things in a feedback thread
such an evil person

 

[jon]

Hi David You're late.Never mind, you got here eventualy. Now I know its safe to leave the thread in your hands. Bye

 

[Tonnberry]

Obviously you don't understand AngelHearts work. IMO, his maps don't have much to do with game-play, but instead are works of art while mimicking real world details & dimensions.

Well no offense to that. He can do whatever he likes. I just dont see any rational meaning in naming this map DM-whatever. Ok it's the easiest way to make a graphic demo playable. But there is still matinee.

If you don't like his maps, don't download them, and don't play them online. Simple really.

Oh does the same thing count for "If you don't like Bush being president of the USA then just don't care and you'll be fine when he nukes your home" ?

Tonnberry, I think that if you were trying to provide helpful advice, your point will probably be lost due to your first statement.

So I should kiss his ass before saying something negative? No thanks, that's not my sense of criticism.

Though, I don't think Angelheart was really looking for advice.

If he was not looking for advices then he just posted the map to get alot of asskisses from everybody here. I hope this is not the way he wants it.

So, you edit your first post to include some detailed critiques so your second post where you ask "tell me why", doesn't make you look like a jerk.

I did because there was a typo in it. Nothing else.

Did you even look at the "read" text file that came with the map?

No one reads readmes. That's why they are called "readme".

Angleheart, you should really think about collaborating with someone and making one of those movies that use the ut2003 engine.

Shad's right.

I really don't see why it should bother anyone what I do, or the way I do it.

Then why dyou post threads to show stuff made by you?

 

[WebSlinger]

LOL people getting mad over nothing

 

[sublime]

Maybe he posted the map just to share it with people, looking for neither flames nor ass-kisses. Maybe the world would be a better place if people actually read readmes. Maybe you just need to tear other people down to make yourself feel better. Maybe you're just blunt with no sort of social skills to speak of. Maybe an analogy of a world leader bombing your house versus someone deciding about downloading a map or not is a bit of a stretch. Maybe the lack of tact in this world is why it's turning out how it is. Maybe the worst thing to ever happen to the internet was the lame smiley with the rolling eyes.

I'm pretty sure at least some of those maybes are true.

 

[DavidM]

"Maybe he posted the map just to share it with people, looking for neither flames nor ass-kisses."

ehm, then you dunno angelheart, ass kissing is all he wants

 

[sublime]

Ah, but I do know him. Just like you know how to push his buttons. Whatever tickles your pickle I suppose, #3.

 

[Swift Viper]

My 0.02

I have a feeling this thread may get closed; I would like something to add.

Tonnberry: What do you mean no one reads readmes, do you speak for everyone :tdown: ? There is a different between saying you don't like a map (feedback) and telling people what not to do and simply saying stuff just to flame someone.

I downloaded the map just now and will try it soon. The main reason why I post is:

Two wrongs don't make a right and flamming him right back won't make things any better, because it turns into a flamewar. I'm mainly talking about Rachel_the_Angel's reply, she could have not replied at all rather then flame Tonnberry. My point is, what will it solve? He could have just been the only one that flamed and not looked so great. However, now that I'm part of it for posting . One person should be able to be stronger then a flamer/spammer/etc. and not sink down to their level, but that is just what I think, not a fact. I agree with WebSlinger about people getting mad over nothing and I hope I did not sound mad myself, but now I think I gore way off topic (sorry Angelheart), but I really wanted to say something.

 

[hal]

What a shame.

I don't think anyone is trying to kiss anyone's ass here. Nor is criticism unwelcome, I'm sure.

What amazes me though, is that we go through this same tired bit every time:

Angelheart announces a map.
A select few (and talented) mappers always drop by to criticize it.

Now what is amazing to me is that we go through this every single time. Angelheart has been releasing maps for years and by now I am sure has heard every single comment everyone has to say about the style of mapping that he chooses to do. Why continually rehash it? It's not going to change anything. He's not going to suddenly say, "yeah, you're right, some colored lighting and uber z-axis is really important to me".

If it were, perhaps, someone new to mapping I could understand. But by now everyone should know that the style is a choice, not a miscalculation.

And who is to say what gametype you can or can't make it? Sure it's not going to wind up on competetive servers. Everyone already knows that. It's going to probably be like he says... a few LAN parties, and people who really dig fragging in that kind of setting.

I can understand you wanting him to use his talents for the masses, but that is not what he wants to do. I doubt you'll ever see DM-Uber-Mainstream-1 on 1 from Angelheart. You'll get what you get.

It's not ass kissing, it's just letting the guy do what he wants.

 

[Tonnberry]

A select few (and talented) mappers always drop by to criticize it.

Now what is amazing to me is that we go through this every single time. Angelheart has been releasing maps for years and by now I am sure has heard every single comment everyone has to say about the style of mapping that he chooses to do. Why continually rehash it? It's not going to change anything. He's not going to suddenly say, "yeah, you're right, some colored lighting and uber z-axis is really important to me".

I didn't drop by only to crtiticise. I did it to post my opinion.

Moreover he doesnt really seem to evolve. It's always the same thing. I wonder why he doesnt see that he's not really evolving his skills. If you release maps over maps and people tell you always the same things (im not talking about the "DAMN YUO ROCK" guys), you should at least think about the stuff people say to. If not, you shouldn't be pissed off when people criticise your work on a forum.

And you're right. It's always the same sh1t. The same sh1t it's been the last 4 years and I'm slowly getting tired of this stuff... :|