Development idea

[Beppo]

Well, I just wanted to share a little idea we had months ago (December last year to be exact) that we want to check out further for our next project. Sure it will be a lot of work to get this right but even with a standard UT2k3 player model the effect it has looks pretty promising.

We named it 'true first person' where your view is using the player models head as your camera location all the time. The standard 1st person view will no longer exist and everything will be done in 3rd person animations that you see directly from your players head. So it will be a pretty realistic look if done right.
I don't want to go into more details now cause it was a very early development idea (three lines of code actually get you the effect) but I hope you all can see what potential is lying within.

Attached is a little example 'game mode' for UT2k3. After unzipping the file into your UT2k3 folder you will be able to select the IFOR 'game mode' within InstantAction and any DM map to play around in. You should start it with zero bots at first to get familiar with the new look.
To get into the special 'true first person' view simply use the behindview 1 command and your view will switch to a 3rd person view using your player models headbone as camera location.
Don't forget to walk around and not always run, cause this will get you seasick pretty fast... and the taunt animations should be tried out too.

Have fun with it and take in mind that the player animations from the UT2k3 models were not designed for such a camera perspective. Just think about the potential it has and what stuff we had in mind almost a year ago already

The attached file is only 2kb and worth to be checked out.

Have fun!

 

[MP_Lord_Kee]

Beppo, that is an awesome idea.
I have to try out this file before posting more comments.

//Kee

 

[melagne]

This is a great idea for the future of Infiltration! I remember when I first played the Operation: Flashpoint demo, one of the things that really struck me about it was how much more immersive it was when you could actually see parts of your own body, rather than being a gun carried arround by floating arms with no body, as in almost all FPSs.

- just tried out the mutator - rather funny with the taunt animations - I can only imagine how nice this would be in combination with freeaim + real ironsights + the ability to dive prone, lean etc... pure bliss. The physics engine wouldn't be a bad addition either.

Would I be right in saying that if this idea was used for a later version of inf, 1st-person animations would be made redundant? I also suppose that if necessary, a first and third-person model of each weapon could still be used, but attatched to the same bone, so that players could see their own detailed ironsights, while other people's weapons would not have to be rendered to quite the same level of detail, but would still appear in exactly the same position.

 

[R-Force]

I have to try that... Once i get my hands on a copy of the game ...

 

[melagne]

I have to try that... Once i get my hands on a copy of the game ...

The feature isn't so effective in the UT2003 engine, as all of it's basic 3rd person models and animations were not designed to support anything like this. In spite of those limitations, it is a very exciting example of what might be done. If you have not played operation: flashpoint I would recommend trying it to experience the use of a proper 'face-mounted' player camera in a more rewarding way.

 

[Alpha_9]

The feature isn't so effective in the UT2003 engine, as all of it's basic 3rd person models and animations were not designed to support anything like this. In spite of those limitations, it is a very exciting example of what might be done.

Correction, it's not the UT2003 engine, but the game that's the problem. The 3rd person models & anims aren't engine-specific of course, but belong to the UT2K3 game. Which is why this could work very well in the UT2K3 engine with our own models & anims that would be designed to support this kind of perspective.

 

[melagne]

That's exactly what I was trying to say - - in retrospect I should have dropped the word 'engine' from my post. And then fixed the grammar etc etc...

Anyway, I can sure see the potential there for some amazing animations and immersiveness. I feel it would add LOADS to the whole experience, and I'm glad that you folks are trying to develop it for the UT2003 engine.

On a side note, I read in an email posted somewhere (linked off beyondunreal, iirc) that Epic have plans to release a freeware version of the Unreal engine (not the original Unreal engine), with no game-specific content but the usual compliment of editing tools, that could be used for non-commercial purposes. I'm wondering if this could be used to create free games (ie Inf) that would not require users to already have some copy of a retail Unreal engine game on their computer.

I was wondering if SS had investigated this possibility of being able to create freely distributable games, Then again, there is always the possibility I may have my information entirely wrong, and that this license could not be used for game-development purposes.

 

[Vega-don]

i am personnaly neutral about something like that.
i don't own UT 2003 so i can't test it.(no way i buy this crap )

i played operation flashpoint, and this system is not realy important in my eyes.
i don't realy notice it ingame, i focus on the sights of my M16
but, maybe this system would make animations easier to create, and in this case that would deff be a good point.

to conclude , i think that what the INF team should focus with the UT2003 port

1-to remake a gameplay as good as 2.9 is supposed to be

2-to make better maps,with big open areas... with all open buildings, higher buildings (why not imagine snipers on the 15th floor firing at soldiers on the groud ) , more interraction with the envirronement like lifts, ability to burn things (imagine , burning a terrain to make cover harder , or burning a floor to make ennemies suffocate). firing through doors and walls .. i have many many ideas for inf- ut 2003

 

[FieldMedic]

I dont have UT2k3 , so i cant check this effect

In the game Swat 3 when you use the command handsup , you had a new experience :

That command allow you to see your body, hands, legs and weapon in Swat 3 , giving an extra immersive nice addition to that already great game (and according to the player model you used , you could be able to sse some part of the helmet sometime)

The only low down of that in Swat 3 was because of the low poly weapon, the "thing" in your hands doesnt looked good , despite sometime good texture resolution

But from what i read in Beppo post , is this UT2K3 'true first person' similar to what happen in Swat3 with ' handsup ' ?

If yes , it could be very interesting for a new INF game

 

[Freon]

it's true it looks great. It was really well done in OFP. Would could walk side way and see your shoulders and legs going in the good direction
I hope we can do something with that soon

 

[Specter]

I really like this idea. It will look really good in Infiltration. I was thinking of suggesting something like that. I didn't know that games, like Operation: Flashpoint and SWAT 3, already had more than just arms in their first person view, but that's probably just because I haven't played them.

 

[FieldMedic]

Operation Flashpoint had this by default and is well done too , in Swat 3 you needed this " handsup " command line to obtain this more immersive feeling in the game

 

[Beppo]

Some notes:
- the free engine that Epic will offer is not meant for developing games at all. It can be used for tools or university studying and such tasks, but is not designed nor allowed to be used for even a free game. Everything is stripped out so nothing of the original game content nor most of its base classes are left.

- SWAT 3 was a great game that had no 1st person weapon animations at all... the handsup command is totally new to me so I cannot compare the two. OFP was different too. Even Tresspasser had some sort of body you were able to look at while looking down but that is totally different too.

Well, pictures showing the result for a UT2k3 model will not really show you how the whole thing works but maybe it can tell you a bit more about it than pure theory. Plz ignore the camera clipping in the attached pics and keep in mind that the UT2k3 models and anims were not designed for such a feature.

 

[Keganator]

I loved the idea in OFP, and I would love to see it in a future INF

BTW...shouldn't this be in New Version Suggestions, beppo? You can move it if you want...but since this came from you, you should make the call

Edit: Okay, after trying it, I think it seems really, really cool and has a ton of potential...as long as the animations are done properly to ensure that you don't get sick and vomit after 5 minutes of play (and, of course, I'm sure if it's SS doing it, they would be done correct )

 

[Camel_Toe(l)]

Interesting concept Beppo, it could be great. I'm very dizzy now....

 

[Turin_Turambar]

I love the idea, is the next step in inmersion.

Btw, there is other game with this system: Ultima IX.

 

[OpFor]

A little off topic, but I figure I should mention something about being able to "hug" surfaces. In this INF it can be kind of hard to get behind cover (or use much as cover) when the collision cylinder keeps you like 5 inchs away from a wall. Would it be possible to be able to lean/hug against something in UT2k3, like splinter cell?

 

[randomas]

Tested it. I think it would be great please go for it!

 

[LIGHTFIGHTER]

I just checked it out..........that view is cool, it plays real nice on my system

 

[Kaoh]

Can I suggest you put a little camera offset to this demo file to place the cam on the eyes location, the models should look much better then allready.

Its a good idea though I really like.
When I started on the camera stuff in ut2003 for uspeed I finally understood what the 1st person 3rd person animations stuff is all about.
I never understood why people made it that way.