Are multiplayer games dead?
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Nereid said:
>Yeah, i agree with that statement. The reason GitzZz failed to qualify for ESCW2005 was because he was playing WoW iirc. Hopefully Wow will begin to die out soon and the players will return to competitive gaming, although with that expansion pack coming out i don't know if soon will be soon enough.
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Linten said:
I owned a Sony mouse for the original PlayStation (still have it). It came in handy for playing SimCity and DOOM.
Wow. I will seriously consider going console sometime soon, I totally didn't even realise I'd be able to play FPS properly on one :/ Though obviously more extensive research is required before such a grand decision can be made
I'll just answer your question from the thread title and fail to address any of your specific points:
NO
NO
Just a personal opinion as I'm not aware of the overall trends but what stops me desiring to play Ut2004 online now is the "Pro" attitude mentioned before. That and the fact that there is no variation in gameplay. I get a bit sick of Rankin, Deck17 and Campgrounds because the gameplay does get old quickly.
There is gameplay flow on these maps yes, but with trick dodging etc so much of the brain isn't utilised and I often feel like I'm on some kind of conveyor belt that will lead me to the action no matter what I do. This is a good thing when it makes action accessible but without enough player interaction with the environment it can become boring because there is a lack of strategy (eg. someone disappears through a door that should provide a defensive position but doesn't because there is a multitude of ways to easily cut them off).
I think the reason the Unreal/UT series took off was because people could be creative and put their ideas about what constituted fun gameplay online. Perhaps most of the people of that inclination have moved on, as gaming online is boring as hell with the exeption of a few small interesting servers.
The attitude that there is a "correct" gameplay flow persists on all of the map sites I've noticed. Rather than building maps for a community the focus becomes building maps that conform to a series of statistics to get a good rating. I realise "fun" is subjective but I think there's more potential to the game than the high-tech tournament style flow of the retail maps.
New maps are flamed on many of the review sites if they do not conform to a particular gameplay type. I think this causes UT2k4 to stagnate at the least. If someone comes out with a gimmicky map that lacks gameplay, fine, but there is usually some way to refine the gimmick even so that it caters to the self-proffessed "hardcore" players. I've recieved more positive feedback on my last map than expected so please don't mistake my words as being a gripe, but I think a more adventurous attitude would be the only way to replenish the UT communities. Having played newer people at the game I find they're put off because of the difference in skill level. Unlike some other FPS games, camping etc are discouraged by the very environment, so there is little opportunity for strategy to combat skill difference. Until environments exist where new players can still get one over by the more experienced through tactics and deception the game will always seem to a newbie like they're stuck in a place they can't escape with certain death.
There is gameplay flow on these maps yes, but with trick dodging etc so much of the brain isn't utilised and I often feel like I'm on some kind of conveyor belt that will lead me to the action no matter what I do. This is a good thing when it makes action accessible but without enough player interaction with the environment it can become boring because there is a lack of strategy (eg. someone disappears through a door that should provide a defensive position but doesn't because there is a multitude of ways to easily cut them off).
I think the reason the Unreal/UT series took off was because people could be creative and put their ideas about what constituted fun gameplay online. Perhaps most of the people of that inclination have moved on, as gaming online is boring as hell with the exeption of a few small interesting servers.
The attitude that there is a "correct" gameplay flow persists on all of the map sites I've noticed. Rather than building maps for a community the focus becomes building maps that conform to a series of statistics to get a good rating. I realise "fun" is subjective but I think there's more potential to the game than the high-tech tournament style flow of the retail maps.
New maps are flamed on many of the review sites if they do not conform to a particular gameplay type. I think this causes UT2k4 to stagnate at the least. If someone comes out with a gimmicky map that lacks gameplay, fine, but there is usually some way to refine the gimmick even so that it caters to the self-proffessed "hardcore" players. I've recieved more positive feedback on my last map than expected so please don't mistake my words as being a gripe, but I think a more adventurous attitude would be the only way to replenish the UT communities. Having played newer people at the game I find they're put off because of the difference in skill level. Unlike some other FPS games, camping etc are discouraged by the very environment, so there is little opportunity for strategy to combat skill difference. Until environments exist where new players can still get one over by the more experienced through tactics and deception the game will always seem to a newbie like they're stuck in a place they can't escape with certain death.
Animbadabar, I don't know that you can fault a map reviewer for pointing out how a map will play out online. Like it or not, there's a winning way to play UT2004, and that is the style that the majority of people will attempt. Unless you just like dying a lot.
As a mapper, you are somewhat responsible for creating an environment that works well within the mechanics of the game. It's possible. Look at a map like DM-Goose2k4... superb flow that caters to the game mechanics, but it also has a little life. DM-CBP2-Achilles (another Soma map, I know) is another example of an interesting environment that takes gameplay into account.
If a map looks neat but will be exploited within three seconds of the start of the match, it's the responsibility of the map reviewer to report that and take it into account in the review. At least, that's what I'd expect.
As a mapper, you are somewhat responsible for creating an environment that works well within the mechanics of the game. It's possible. Look at a map like DM-Goose2k4... superb flow that caters to the game mechanics, but it also has a little life. DM-CBP2-Achilles (another Soma map, I know) is another example of an interesting environment that takes gameplay into account.
If a map looks neat but will be exploited within three seconds of the start of the match, it's the responsibility of the map reviewer to report that and take it into account in the review. At least, that's what I'd expect.
Evoken said:almost all server 0players.
.
Actually most games (And when UT2004 first came out) most of the servers are usually empty.about half a year ago I was bored and checked to see how many server their were for Midnight club 2, and their were about 4. I could say that game was dead, but not one like ut2004 with thousands of servers.
IMO:
A game isn't *dead* untill all public servers are out, nobody plays it, and it doesn't have a community that is always updating, has active members, and making more mods. A great example that UT2004 has such a communitiy would be: (Link to site with awsome UT2004 community
)
Linten said:
^ this emphasizes t2a's point. Once the consoles can do everything a PC can do (which they are comming very close) no one is going to go out and spend 3 grand on a computer all the time when you can drop at most 500 on a PS3 or something and not have to worry about a new game comming out in 5 months that will bring your new 3,000 dollar gamming machine down. PS3 games will always run on PS3 for the duration of the console, meaning a 1 time buy for 4 years or so of enjoyment. I also like how some people are making fun of nintendo for trying to be innovative, when a lot of people have been asking for gameplay over graphics. Their new console looks like it will be fun (reguardless of the name WEEEE ), and that is where PC's need to go if they stand any chance. More innovative gameplay and less rehashing old ideas with new graphics. You will never see games like ikaruga, lumines, zelda, or any other fun games on the PC, just FPS rehashes and RTS/MMO games that will push the graphical limits.
That's a psychological factor, actually. People form their opinions of something within 30 seconds to 2 minutes (opinions vary on this). After that, you mainly go in search of things to reinstate that impression. Since that's the way players judge a map, it must show in a review as well. If, however, the reviewer isn't at least trying to grasp the intention of the map, then he's a bad reviewer.hal said:
In a certain way, all those awesome Soma maps hurt the community, as a large piece of the community (or at least the ones who are the most vocal on things) won't bother to settle with less than perfection.
/off-topic
hal said:
Maps like Orisis, and all soma's, seems to get away with the fact that they are good for hitscaning. I don't know what's the magic. It seems like everytime you open the editor and think about a layout, the first room that you will create over 800 UU will drive you insane for a moment, and make you think
"What should i put there"
"it will be too open"
Want it or don't, there's always a logic behind these. And no matter what maps you play, all the first encounters are hitscans, once the player is getting closer he will start to weapon switch some more to be more efficient from close. And use the link gun/minigun for a real finishing.
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Well, you can't avoid the fact that UT2004 is dominated by the twin hitscan weapons. I think the good maps combine spaces that promote both styles of play. Maps like Grendelkeep fail (except in CTF - it's wonderful in that gametype) because they are basically a series of open rooms with sightlines to everywhere.