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Are multiplayer games dead?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 2003/2004' started by [MD]FT, May 7, 2006.

  1. Animbadabar

    Animbadabar Userfied Regist

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    The idea that there is a set mapping "perfection" (eg. Soma maps) is part of what holds the community back. A lot of players and frequenters on mapping sites will bag a map without encouragement or detailed thought on the more positive aspects. I'm not saying a reviewer shouldn't point out what they see as flaws, but it's crucial they remember most mappers do so as a hobby.
    It's one thing to point out where people's work can be improved, quite another to bag it.

    At the end of the day if people act like spoiled children and constantly demand mappers to adapt to their own idea of "perfection" but can't adapt playing styles for a particular arena the community will fail to reach it's potential. If we realise the work every map has put into it rather than immediately expecting retail quality, it'd be easier for new mappers to gain a foothold and develop their own gameplay styles.

    eg. Mellsoft maps suffer from amateur build quality therefore a miniature battle starts every time he posts a new map. Some protest that they tried to help him "become a better mapper" by conforming to set gameplay styles despite the fact he states prettymuch every time he is trying something new.
    Yes he needs help making his maps appear better (and should probably take the crude collage off the screenshot box) but I think it's commendable that he at least has the balls to try something new in a community that seems to become increasingly set-in-it's-ways. There seems to be an undertone of professionalism on map sites, which is bloody ridiculous. It's a game! People who map for this do so for the benefit of others not to further some career in the industry (most cases). Therefore treat the mappers as such.

    @Hal - I was trying to avoid specifics around my own map. Yes a reviewer can point out things that can be exploited but we can't forget that certain expoitations are necessary to any map catering for varied skill levels. An environment that couldn't be exploited in any way would be a cube with no Z axis.

    On UnrealPlayground Blitz I think wrote a small essay on strategy and balance which I thought was pretty sound.

    Personally the only Soma map I like is Goose, and only for really serious TDM matches. I don't think he should be revered to the extent he is by a lot of people in the community. Praised for good work and achieving the hardcore flow yes, but not used as a yardstick to judge mappers who are either mapping for a different group or trying something fresh.

    I think if I didn't have a set audience for my own maps I'd already have become disillusioned and given mapping up. Not because I lack enthusiasm for mapping, but because people who expect others to give up hours of their free time to make something that is in essence the same as maps that ship with the game don't really deserve anything new.

    I think it's an interesting trend to observe that the most constructive of reviewers on Nalicity and other sites tend to take their own mapping a bit more seriously.
     
  2. CyMek

    CyMek Dead but not gone.

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    I'd have to agree. There are some styles of map I don't care for, but even doing things like making a map hitscan un-friendly for most of the map (DM-Injector) means that people will shun the map regardless. It also sucks that even if you can make a map that plays juse like a retail map, and is perfect in every aspect, nobody will play it anyway because nobody good wants to have to learn new things. It's really frustrating to put hundreds of hours of work into something and then have it shunned by people at large.
     
  3. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Oh, I agree that many people immediately write off a map because it doesn't conform to their play style. It all comes down to the fact that the level designer has to choose his or her audience... themselves or the masses.

    Take someone like Angelheart, who's every announced map is greeted by jeers from the 'gameplay' crowd, or WarBeast who has obviously mastered 3D modeling, but cares not to make a map playable. Should those maps exist? Absolutely! Should people bag on them because they aren't hardcore? No - because that is not what the author is trying to do. You have to take that into account.

    I could go on and on - you have your specialty gametype mappers (IG, low-grav, mini-me) and your alternative (funnel maps, race maps) and whatever else. All that should continue to exist and people need to realize it and shut the hell up.

    But you can't ignore how the game is played online. Those are the people who post on message boards and flame on map sites.

    As far as map reviews go, most of them that I read probably err in another direction: they gear the entire review towards editing technical issues, like misaligned textures, odd lighting, weird geometry... those kinds of things that most people playing the game could care less about.

    I can appreciate a map for what it is. I like looking at all of the incredible play environments the talented community puts forth, and I'll be the first person in line to defend packs like the CBP2 that were more a design resume than a group of highly online-playable maps. I'll also admit that there are tons of people who play the game offline.

    But a level designer who is bothered by the comments people online, really ought to take a look at why he or she is making them and then either embrace what people have to say or stick by his or her guns. It does no good to complain that people don't "get" what you are doing.
     
  4. Kantham

    Kantham Fool.

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    IG/mini/sniper/funnel/invasion kind of keep some part of UT2004 alive. If i just take one of these RPG invasion servers with full of players, i join it, after i downloaded all the crap that's on the server (zound, lots of player skins) i can finally play, and from there, you will see a bunch of players only walking foward holding the trigger, killing EVERYTHING in almost one shot (there's all those flak bit flying around). There's absolutely no point in there, but these people like it, because they are not ment for competitive gaming. They all move to invasion and that kind of thing. And these people are bored of dying all the time getting no kills. I've seen many players on some server with like 3 kills and 23 deaths, they just live with it. But once you get good at the game you will either stop playing it, or be a slave of it. And you will need to play it some more, especialy if that day you feel concentrated.

    The more the players are getting good, the more capricious they will be, and discover the unbalencement of the game. This kind of stuff is normal, if i look at those people who barely get any kill and die all the time, they just don't know what's going on, even if they get headshoted all the time, not even wondering if the player is using a game modification to get an artificial auto-aiming.

    Now i don't care if anyone's going to quote this and go like "LOL KANTANS ONLY PLAY ON DAEMO SVRERS one one 1 oen!1"

    But the demo servers, right now, are the most crowded overall, Even if they play the same map, even if they are not anti-cheat protected. I don't know, and to be honnest i scratch my head to find out why, there's always at least 4 demo servers that are loaded in america's sector. This is just blinded, and it's freaking hard to get players on a new server. Just my clan server i posted lately, no one came beside the members of my own clan, we had to be at least 5 before some people joined. We are advertised, and the server is not passworded.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2006
  5. Hanover_Fist

    Hanover_Fist Hero

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  6. Raffi_B

    Raffi_B Administrator

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    UT2k4 is probably the hardest FPS right now to get good at. The movement is tricky, the weapons are all hard to learn (multiple firemodes, combos, and there are so many of them), the player models are small, the scale/speed is zippy and floaty, and the weapon balance is a tad out of whack. Competitive players start to give up because there isn't any motivation. There is no motivation because there aren't enough people interested in the game for major leagues to give out cash prizes. There are not enough people interested in the game because the game is hard to get good at. It's a vicious cycle.

    Quake 4 is a terrible game to play pubs on. Ladders for UT2k4 are way more active than those for Quake 4. But almost all of the top 1v1ers and TDM teams are playing Quake 4 mainly because that's where the money is at. If you give that kind of money to UT2k4, its popularity will soar.

    So why hasn't this been done? Aside from the fact that the game isn't newb-friendly, take into account what other people (non-UTers) want to see. They want to see action - mid air rocket kills, high speed movement, aggressive gameplay, and close games. None of this happens in UT2k4 because: 1) Rockets are not nearly as effective because they travel more slowly and are hard to hit small player models in mid-air 2) the movement is actually not that fast and gets very boring to watch 3) the shield gun makes the game far less aggressive 4) close games rarely happen at the higher levels of skill even when the two players are evenly matched. This is because spawn raping and map control is so much easier in UT2k4 that it's easy to get 5-6 frags in a row if you play your cards right.

    What we need is a game that people will enjoy watching and playing. Newbies need to be able to have access to watching major 1v1/TDM events, and they also have to be able to enjoy them. I bet if you went into a UT2k4 demo ONS pub right now and asked if anyone wanted to watch top-tier 1v1 action, nobody would care because they aren't interested. If we want DM/TDM/CTF to stand any chance at all, newbies have to like them. We can't bank on the fact that ONS will carry the UT series, because it won't - look at UT2k4.
     
  7. Neddaf

    Neddaf Just a flesh wound!

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    I'm a PC gamer fo life AIIIIIGHT
     
  8. nuttella

    nuttella Scare

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    For some reason gimmicky maps worked in UT, but not in UT2k4. I don't know why. Maybe it's because blowing people to bits just for the sake of it isn't as fun anymore.
     
  9. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    I dunno... I wouldn't say they worked. People pretty much hated them from the start. They look cool in pics, but gameplay is a different story. I'd say there were more questionable maps in UT than its successors.
     
  10. briach

    briach ಠ_ಠ DaReTaL ಠ_ಠ

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    No newnet. Nice map with a mix of different gameplay(not completely dominated). No lag from ATCC, UTComp etc, plus those demo servers are suprisingly the smoothest servers around, plus I ping fairly well to most demo servers, and I get little packet loss.

    Demo servers players also have a better attitude and are frequently admined by several of the regulars. Good players on demo servers generally will change sides so the game will end close. Players that try to hitscan and chicken out of confrontation are over-whelmed by the masses of players, and running backwards is practically suicide. Plus the demo server player's playstyle is a little more fun, than the other pubs. They like to use rockets, flak, and shock combos a lot more than you'll ever see in other servers.

    A lot of demo server players, play on a large variety of different servers, and are probably the most active out of multiplayer community.

    Playing the same map over and over again, can be fun. Take Deck 16 in ut99 for an example. Aslong as it yields mixed gameplay for lots of different people to appreciate, and has a lot of substance and depth as a map, then a single map server can be quite successful.
     
  11. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula New Member

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    That is a square

    Seriously though, I agree with what Raffi said. Close and exciting is the way to go, maybe even inject a little passion into the game.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2006
  12. Defeat

    Defeat GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO

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    >I think that if newnet was on more servers it would make it easier for more new people to enjoy the game since they wouldn't have to worry about ping rape. Bright skins and hitsounds doesn't have to be on though. I've only seen 1 "for fun server around and the people with the lowest ping are 99% of the time at the top of the scoreboard.
     
  13. ThirtySixBelow

    ThirtySixBelow tactical inaccuracy

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    Ping will be an issue with any game no matter what they do. Newnet isn't the end all solution in perfection for fixing pings. I'm sure people know that when they are getting 100 ping that they will be at a disadvantage. I don't think ping was why people stopped playing. If you are in bfe wyoming pinging 100 to servers in NY, I don't think you are going to quit playing UT and then go to play BF2 instead so you can ping 100 to NY.
     
  14. Turret 49

    Turret 49 Doomer at heart

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  15. ShakeZula

    ShakeZula New Member

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    No, I hate them too.

    btw -32, is bfe wyoming a real place?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2006
  16. Hanover_Fist

    Hanover_Fist Hero

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    probably not, but there are 247,000 people playing the top 10 games right now so even though you're not the only one annoyed you're a very small percentage.:lol:


    space shooters w/crazy weapons just aren't popular anymore.

    somebody correct my gaming history for me if i'm wrong but isn't this kinda how it goes (more or less):

    1. DOOM, (space monsters)
    2. Unreal, (space monsters)
    3. Quake, (space monsters)
    4. UT, (space monsters)
    5. Counter Strike (realism)
    6. etc....etc (mostly realism)?
    7. WW2 shooters.... more realism
    8. Fantasy/Magical and whatnot.....
     
  17. nuttella

    nuttella Scare

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    That depends on what you mean by gimmicky. I'm talking about maps like Peak, Pressure, Hyperblast, Morpheus, etc., which would be (or are) a joke in UT2004. These maps are still in heavy rotation on the pubs, and they are a lot of fun. I don't know, because I joined the scene late, but it's possible these maps were scorned by the "pro" attitude early on, and that dissipated as people moved on to the new games for competition. But I don't see DM-Inferno or CBP2-Koma ever becoming pub favorites.
     
  18. nuttella

    nuttella Scare

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    I believe that would be his abbreviation for "east butt f*ck", a common expression here in the states. And spell his name right. Subtract 4.
     
  19. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    :lol: at Descent 3 still barely hanging on.

     
  20. Defeat

    Defeat GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO

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    >The top "multiplayer" game isn't on that list. AFAIK WoW is the number 1 multiplayer game out there.
     

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