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Larkin

Gone
Apr 4, 2006
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I wonder how will survive those 50 million Americans that even own part of nationalized health insurance company but can't afford an health insurance

If you don't mind rephrasing that so the words aren't all mixed up that would be great.


This bill says you can't get private insurance!"

"Actually, that's not what it says at all. It says it defines grandfathered coverage as coverage that is not issued after the bill takes effect. Perhaps you should actually read it instead of sensationalizing complete bull****."

"LOL WE'RE JUST CONCERNED CITIZENS!"

Okay.

Most people that bring up that it will kill insurance aren't talking about what is actually written in the bill when pertaining to if they will still exist, but an effect of the bill by the practices introduced.

IT'S DIFFERENT!

Capitalizing makes me horny. You too?
 
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Crotale

_________________________ _______________
Jan 20, 2008
2,535
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Anywhere But Here
Republicans make me want to ****ing vomit.
Why would you say this? Seriously, why? You know, it isn't a crime to have an opposing point of view or to express that point of view. Also, with all of the wordy and legalese verbiage in the House Bill, is it really an wonder that so many of us are confused as hell with what it actually says, when even a long-time Democrat who supports the legislation, John Conyers, stated that he will need help from his entire staff and a team of lawyers to interpret the 1000something page document.

If you cannot even get the two parties to collectively agree on what the 2nd Amendment means, how do you expect them to agree on this legislation or its wording? And how the hell can you expect the rest of us to understand what every little detail in the bill means to us and how those details may affect our lives? We can't, so we have to rely partly on 3rd party information, where the message is likely to become somewhat garbled.

I'd say all-in-all, Americans are trying to digest the information, but the way our President and many leading Democrats are trying to shotgun the legislation down our throats is causing intense heartburn amongst the citizens.
 

KaiserWarrior

Flyin' High
Aug 5, 2008
800
0
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"Somewhat Garbled" and "Outright Fabricated" are not the same thing.

That passage is constantly cited on talk radio and various right-leaning news/opinion shows as stating that it is illegal to get private insurance. That is not what that passage says. That passage is not complex legalese. It quite clearly states "we're going to be using the term "grandfathered coverage" in later parts of this section, so here's what that term means". There is nothing tricky or fancy about what it's doing there. Those in the media that are saying that passage makes private insurance illegal are lying about it. They know full well that's not what it says. They are lying about it to stir up anti-reform sentiment. It is deliberate, it is targeted, and it is sickening.

What else are they lying about? If they're willing to distort something so obvious that a cursory glance at the source by a layman shows they're making **** up, what else are they playing up as a doomsday scenario when it's just defining a term or something similar? Who else is being paid by insurance giants to do their level best to make sure no reform ever gets through?

Brizz: Yes, saying you just want explanation is all well and good, but it smacks rather heavily of another tactic used by some of the more "colorful" hosts (I.E. Glenn Beck): "I'm not necessarily saying he's not a citizen, I just can't disprove these accusations about his birth certificate!" It's a real cozy way to imply something while dodging responsibility for it.

The point is ignored because it is made-up bull****.
 
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hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
21,409
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------->
www.beyondunreal.com
"Somewhat Garbled" and "Outright Fabricated" are not the same thing.

That passage is constantly cited on talk radio and various right-leaning news/opinion shows as stating that it is illegal to get private insurance. That is not what that passage says. That passage is not complex legalese. It quite clearly states "we're going to be using the term "grandfathered coverage" in later parts of this section, so here's what that term means". There is nothing tricky or fancy about what it's doing there. Those in the media that are saying that passage makes private insurance illegal are lying about it. They know full well that's not what it says. They are lying about it to stir up anti-reform sentiment. It is deliberate, it is targeted, and it is sickening.

What else are they lying about? If they're willing to distort something so obvious that a cursory glance at the source by a layman shows they're making **** up, what else are they playing up as a doomsday scenario when it's just defining a term or something similar? Who else is being paid by insurance giants to do their level best to make sure no reform ever gets through?

Brizz: Yes, saying you just want explanation is all well and good, but it smacks rather heavily of another tactic used by some of the more "colorful" hosts (I.E. Glenn Beck): "I'm not necessarily saying he's not a citizen, I just can't disprove these accusations about his birth certificate!" It's a real cozy way to imply something while dodging responsibility for it.

The point is ignored because it is made-up bull****.

How do you know that? Do you listen to all of those "right-wing" talk radio shows? Or do you just rely on someone to package together the clips in a way that supports their own viewpoint? Did you read the entire bill?

Before you go and "vomit" be really sure that you aren't lapping up propoganda the way you accuse others of doing. Your generalities about the "other side" in this thread are a bit surprising to me as you usually don't resort to that kind of thing.

Both sides paint their arguments in the light that most favors their own. Radical liberals practically wrote the book on disruptive demonstration and now seeing them bellyache about "fair discourse" and "misrepresenting the facts" makes me want to vomit.
 

kiff

That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash
Jan 19, 2008
3,793
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Tx.
www.desert-conflict.org
"One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project, most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it." - Reagan

:)
 

KaiserWarrior

Flyin' High
Aug 5, 2008
800
0
0
How do you know that? Do you listen to all of those "right-wing" talk radio shows? Or do you just rely on someone to package together the clips in a way that supports their own viewpoint? Did you read the entire bill?

Before you go and "vomit" be really sure that you aren't lapping up propoganda the way you accuse others of doing. Your generalities about the "other side" in this thread are a bit surprising to me as you usually don't resort to that kind of thing.

Both sides paint their arguments in the light that most favors their own. Radical liberals practically wrote the book on disruptive demonstration and now seeing them bellyache about "fair discourse" and "misrepresenting the facts" makes me want to vomit.

Do I listen to all of them? Most certainly not. I do, however, get a daily dose of Hannity on the commute home (it is an unfortunate fact that the best traffic reports in this city, which you desperately need as our highways are horrible, are on a heavily conservative station -- but that also means I end up getting a healthy dose of opposing viewpoints every day), and he's been bringing this up nigh-daily for the past week or so -- citing this exact passage in the way I described above. He is considered mainstream talk radio. I could understand if it was, say, Savage, but this is a guy with a prime-time television show as well.

Is the whole bill agreeable? Of course not. Is there wasteful spending in it? Of course there is. And these are valid points that need to be addressed and corrected. My point is that I am sick and tired of seeing term definitions being quoted and passed off as the bill's policies.

If people want to complain about legitimate areas of the bill that actually would establish policies they disagree with, by all means do so. That's what debate is about. But making stuff up -- saying that the bill makes private insurance illegal, or gives the government unfettered access to personal bank accounts -- and pointing to a section that says nothing of the sort and is talking about something completely different is dishonest, unethical, and is part of what is wrong with modern political discourse in this country.

And yes. That makes me rage, hard.
 

kiff

That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash
Jan 19, 2008
3,793
0
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Tx.
www.desert-conflict.org
that's funny, I haven't heard him talk about that particular item. I heard it a week or two back when someone called into a show... I think it was roger hiitchcock or something(?) I didn't catch the details, but remembered the page number and decided to look it up before I posted it. so, to act like everyone's making that claim is just as retarded as you make them out to be.

again, maybe you should be angry at the dems for trying to force this bill on us without even reading it or explaining WTF's in it. or, the fact that obama is flat out lying that there's no intention on it leading to single payer.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
26,020
83
48
If people want to complain about legitimate areas of the bill that actually would establish policies they disagree with, by all means do so. That's what debate is about. But making stuff up -- saying that the bill makes private insurance illegal, or gives the government unfettered access to personal bank accounts -- and pointing to a section that says nothing of the sort and is talking about something completely different is dishonest, unethical, and is part of what is wrong with modern political discourse in this country.
Unfortunately, I think that's a really poor argument to be upset about. For one thing, things that ARE in the bill indicate that once the public option is enacted, the only way to get NEW insurance is to use either the public option or the HIE, which are both regulated and controlled by the government. So, in that sense, private insurance IS illegal.
 

dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
3,754
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once the public option is enacted, the only way to get NEW insurance is to use either the public option or the HIE, which are both regulated and controlled by the government. So, in that sense, private insurance IS illegal.

Yes, and private trade doesn't REALLY exist because the stock market is regulated. OMG we've been Marxed.

~Jason
 

kiff

That guy from Texas. Give me some Cash
Jan 19, 2008
3,793
0
0
Tx.
www.desert-conflict.org
Yes, and private trade doesn't REALLY exist because the stock market is regulated. OMG we've been Marxed.

~Jason
yea, great comparison. the government will set the prices and available services of the insurance companies.

you guys arguing know full well that this whole thing is here to take over the industry. you must want that or you'd be on our side of the argument
 

funkblast

I posted in the RO-me thread
and all I got was
a pink username!
Aug 4, 2001
1,151
17
38
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California
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Barrack Hussien Obama killed my father, ate my dog, and raped my mother. Now, I'm out for revenge.

hrdkt3.jpg
 

Larkin

Gone
Apr 4, 2006
1,984
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Taxing the upper 2% and helping lower income families with medicare is literally the same thing as killing 6 million jews.

Nice job taking the intelligence level of the discussion down to zero. Btw, wonderful job getting that percentage right and awesome job of realizing your taxes will go up aswell. Oh but the best part is you thinking it will help the poor or that this is reform. Great Job at being retarded.
 
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FuLLBLeeD

fart
Jan 23, 2008
946
1
18
Kansas
awwsmack.org
Nice job taking the intelligence level of the discussion down to zero. Btw, wonderful job getting that percentage right and awesome job of realizing your taxes will go up aswell. Oh but the best part is you thinking it will help the poor or that this is reform. Great Job at being retarded.

No man, I don't pay taxes. I'm a TRUE AMERICAN like that.

9/12 watch Glenn Beck every day.