Cat Fuzz said:
I'm not Adam, I've never met Adam, I've never even seen a picture of Adam, and neither has anyone else, yet bad things happen to us because of something he did?
A historic Day for Liberty and Freedom
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I'm not Adam, I've never met Adam, I've never even seen a picture of Adam, and neither has anyone else, yet bad things happen to us because of something he did?
Cat Fuzz
Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!
Frostblood said:
Yes, because we are sinful. It has been inherited in every generation since Adam and Eve. Humans messed up the world, not God.
Humans didn't create the malaria parasite, but it's killed countless millions of people down the years, many of them very young children who have never had the time to commit any act, sinful or not. Did God create the malaria parasite, and specifically design it to kill humans, especially children, with such efficiency, just because we are "sinful"? A newborn baby isn't sinful, in that it hasn't actually commited any sin, but God kills it for the sins of it's fathers?
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No. You can be 'rewarded' with the 'tolerant' label so long as you don't actively force your views on others as THE only view.
No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs or ideals. What is being asked is that, should someone disagree with your ideals and beliefs, don't throw them in prison for it. Don't punish someone because they are different. Agree to disagree. Say your piece and move on or be friends, whatever. But allow everyone the same freedom to have their own ideals and beliefs you yourself are free to have. How is that being intolerant?
I regard 'hate and bigotry' as people having an unreasonable hate for someone thats different and thereby deserves to be killed, punished, imprisoned just because they don't fit in the box of the 'offended' person.
bigotry
\Big"ot*ry\, n. [Cf. F. bigoterie.] 1. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.
prej·u·dice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prj-ds)
n.
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
A preconceived preference or idea.
The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.
bi·as ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs)
n.
A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric: Cut the cloth on the bias.
A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.
A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.
That is what I'm talking about. If you can't see that the anti sodomy laws were unjust, then what, to your mind is?
2. The practice or tenets of a bigot.
No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs or ideals. What is being asked is that, should someone disagree with your ideals and beliefs, don't throw them in prison for it. Don't punish someone because they are different. Agree to disagree. Say your piece and move on or be friends, whatever. But allow everyone the same freedom to have their own ideals and beliefs you yourself are free to have. How is that being intolerant?
I regard 'hate and bigotry' as people having an unreasonable hate for someone thats different and thereby deserves to be killed, punished, imprisoned just because they don't fit in the box of the 'offended' person.
bigotry
\Big"ot*ry\, n. [Cf. F. bigoterie.] 1. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.
prej·u·dice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prj-ds)
n.
An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
A preconceived preference or idea.
The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.
bi·as ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs)
n.
A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric: Cut the cloth on the bias.
A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.
An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.
A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.
That is what I'm talking about. If you can't see that the anti sodomy laws were unjust, then what, to your mind is?
2. The practice or tenets of a bigot.
if our creator creates his masterpiece and it's imperfect, then he has screwed up or this was intwentional. making us intentionally imperfect means that hes the bigges ******* alive! but since he's more sci fi than star trek I can safely sleep at night
Cat Fuzz said:
Right. However we went over there first and started attacking them. And now we are just chillin there wasting money... looking for **** we are never going to find.
I forgot it is only ok for us to attack them not the other way around... when will I learn?
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Cat Fuzz
Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!
militaryspetproject said:
We are there with the approval of a large majority of Iragi civilians. 70% or so according to a recent poll. And thats of the Iraqi's that aren't still afraid to voice an opinion in opposition to Saddam. If we left it would turn into absolute chaos instead of the mild chaos that it is now.
Besides, you know that if we just went in, kicked Saddams ass and then just left, we would be critisized for stirring the pot then walking away.
How the heck did I get into discussing 3 different topics in the same thread?
Also, you forget that Clinton also claimed to have proof of Saddams WMD's. He spoke about them many times while he was "president" Its not just a Bush thing that was made up out of thin air. Of course you have to be a liberal democrat to be correct about such things. If your a Republican, you just want to play war with all your military toys.
Cat Fuzz
Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!
Balton said:
Our Creator did make Adam and Eve perfect. But He didn't want a couple of robots, so He gave them free will. He told them one thing NOT to do, but they chose to do disobey God. Adam and Eve screwed up, not God.
Lets take it from the top
You are under the misconception that God is the one punishing people when in fact He is the one trying to save people from the torment of sin. God basically says "I love you, therefore I want the best for you. The best is my way and I should know since I created the Universe. If however, you choose to do things some other way, you will suffer the unfortunate effects of those other ways. You see, they don't work."
If you take into account that God created Man and Woman and then gave them all athourity on Earth which includes the limited power to create life, it's not so hard to realize that God doesn't create anyone, let alone create them with homosexuality. Mankind does the creating but unfortunately mankind is under the curse of the law of sin and death now and at the mercy of satan. Satan perverts that which God created with the power and authority man gave to him through obedience to him. Satan said eat the apple, God said not to eat the apple. They made a choice about who to listen to. Their wrong choice damned humanity. Since God is not the author of chaos and confusion, He is bound to operating in the confines of the origional boundries that He Himself set up in the beginning. Everyone is effected by the origional sin which is why the Bible says "for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Homosexuality is but one of many possible manifestations of satan's peverted influence on humanity.
No, it is true that you are intolerant but I forgive you because I know that your intolerance is based on your ignorace of Christian beliefs. Perhaps you see hate everywhere because you have so much of it in your own heart.
You are under the misconception that God is the one punishing people when in fact He is the one trying to save people from the torment of sin. God basically says "I love you, therefore I want the best for you. The best is my way and I should know since I created the Universe. If however, you choose to do things some other way, you will suffer the unfortunate effects of those other ways. You see, they don't work."
If you take into account that God created Man and Woman and then gave them all athourity on Earth which includes the limited power to create life, it's not so hard to realize that God doesn't create anyone, let alone create them with homosexuality. Mankind does the creating but unfortunately mankind is under the curse of the law of sin and death now and at the mercy of satan. Satan perverts that which God created with the power and authority man gave to him through obedience to him. Satan said eat the apple, God said not to eat the apple. They made a choice about who to listen to. Their wrong choice damned humanity. Since God is not the author of chaos and confusion, He is bound to operating in the confines of the origional boundries that He Himself set up in the beginning. Everyone is effected by the origional sin which is why the Bible says "for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Homosexuality is but one of many possible manifestations of satan's peverted influence on humanity.
No, it is true that you are intolerant but I forgive you because I know that your intolerance is based on your ignorace of Christian beliefs. Perhaps you see hate everywhere because you have so much of it in your own heart.
How nice of you to introduce yourself up front BJ. Still, your trolling is not needed here.
Sure you do BJ, infact that's all you seem to be capable of duing these days. As a person if color, you look to me like nothing more than a foul mouthed, "would be" reformed racist who's falling back on his old red neck references in a feeble attempt to make a point. I forgive you though, seeing as how all of your troll bait comments are in fact, based on your ignorance.
Let us try to keep it to the gay discussion
And some good posts by Beetle I must say
Our Creator did make Adam and Eve perfect. But He didn't want a couple of robots, so He gave them free will. He told them one thing NOT to do, but they chose to do disobey God. Adam and Eve screwed up, not God.
My picture of the biblical God is a this nerdy kid who puts insects in a paper bag and lets them loose on each other for amusement.
And some good posts by Beetle I must say
Our Creator did make Adam and Eve perfect. But He didn't want a couple of robots, so He gave them free will. He told them one thing NOT to do, but they chose to do disobey God. Adam and Eve screwed up, not God.
My picture of the biblical God is a this nerdy kid who puts insects in a paper bag and lets them loose on each other for amusement.
If you take into account that God created Man and Woman
I don't believe a God made man and women.
and then gave them all athourity on Earth which includes the limited power to create life
What is so limited about creating life? You have a baby, your creating life, there is no "limited".
it's not so hard to realize that God doesn't create anyone, let alone create them with
homosexuality.
Oh so my enitre christian upbrining is total BS because you, the righteous Saint Beam, has come down from Heaven and "set it straight". Shut up, you speak for your own understanding of Christianity and nothing more.
Mankind does the creating but unfortunately mankind is under the curse of the law of sin and death now and at the mercy of satan.
Blah blah. You remind me of this 40 year old virgin theology teacher who tried to convince me that Satan was trying to poison my soul.
Satan perverts that which God created with the power and authority man gave to him through obedience to him. Satan said eat the apple, God said not to eat the apple.
Prophet said, "blah blah", and the Saitbeam said "blah blah", and Prophet said "blah blah"
They made a choice about who to listen to. Their wrong choice damned humanity.
Which alone makes God a bastard, if what you say is true. Nothing is more idiotic than damning the ancestors of someone who wronged you. Being born with the burden of another's bad choices thrown upon you is a lousy and unfair thing. People on Earth do that to each other all the time, but if your God really does exist, I would expect him to be above that....oh wait, I forgot, you are talking about your own interpretaton of what God is...
Since God is not the author of chaos and confusion, He is bound to operating in the confines of the origional boundries that He Himself set up in the beginning.
Oh Please, can't you tell that preaching your into this discussion will only get you more ridicule.
Everyone is effected by the origional sin which is why the Bible says "for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Once again, I always found this belief to be bullshiit, I don't think a baby can be held accountable for the actions of it's parents.
Homosexuality is but one of many possible manifestations of satan's peverted influence on humanity.
No Saint, Homosexuality is a human lifestyle which should be tolerated. It's thinking your "preverted satanic lifestyle" that starts all this hatred for Gay people in the first place, and makes people wanna pass laws against them.
Look, you believe in God, Fine, but as Beetle Juice said, there is a seperation of Church and State in the US, PERIOD. No "ifs" or "buts". The bottom line is, that this law against sodomy is unconstitutional and goes against our rights as citizens. Nothing relgious should have to do with that.
I don't believe a God made man and women.
and then gave them all athourity on Earth which includes the limited power to create life
What is so limited about creating life? You have a baby, your creating life, there is no "limited".
it's not so hard to realize that God doesn't create anyone, let alone create them with
homosexuality.
Oh so my enitre christian upbrining is total BS because you, the righteous Saint Beam, has come down from Heaven and "set it straight". Shut up, you speak for your own understanding of Christianity and nothing more.
Mankind does the creating but unfortunately mankind is under the curse of the law of sin and death now and at the mercy of satan.
Blah blah. You remind me of this 40 year old virgin theology teacher who tried to convince me that Satan was trying to poison my soul.
Satan perverts that which God created with the power and authority man gave to him through obedience to him. Satan said eat the apple, God said not to eat the apple.
Prophet said, "blah blah", and the Saitbeam said "blah blah", and Prophet said "blah blah"
They made a choice about who to listen to. Their wrong choice damned humanity.
Which alone makes God a bastard, if what you say is true. Nothing is more idiotic than damning the ancestors of someone who wronged you. Being born with the burden of another's bad choices thrown upon you is a lousy and unfair thing. People on Earth do that to each other all the time, but if your God really does exist, I would expect him to be above that....oh wait, I forgot, you are talking about your own interpretaton of what God is...
Since God is not the author of chaos and confusion, He is bound to operating in the confines of the origional boundries that He Himself set up in the beginning.
Oh Please, can't you tell that preaching your into this discussion will only get you more ridicule.
Everyone is effected by the origional sin which is why the Bible says "for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Once again, I always found this belief to be bullshiit, I don't think a baby can be held accountable for the actions of it's parents.
Homosexuality is but one of many possible manifestations of satan's peverted influence on humanity.
No Saint, Homosexuality is a human lifestyle which should be tolerated. It's thinking your "preverted satanic lifestyle" that starts all this hatred for Gay people in the first place, and makes people wanna pass laws against them.
Look, you believe in God, Fine, but as Beetle Juice said, there is a seperation of Church and State in the US, PERIOD. No "ifs" or "buts". The bottom line is, that this law against sodomy is unconstitutional and goes against our rights as citizens. Nothing relgious should have to do with that.
Reading this thread has made me ill!! I just dont even know what to say to any of it! I think the points have been argured to death(And I have to say well done Btljuice)! It saddens me to no end that we are still trying to understand each other. When its just a fact of life that we are all different and we need to accept that and try and be more tolerant!!
No, it is true that you are intolerant but I forgive you because I know that your intolerance is based on your ignorace of Christian beliefs. Perhaps you see hate everywhere because you have so much of it in your own heart.
You are one to talk about ignorance of Christian beliefs. I don't have "hate in my heart" but I have lived a christian life up till about 3-4 years ago, and I can certainly say, there is more hate than love in the church. Everyone who has ever tried to teach me anything about Christianity has had more contempt in their hearts than anyone else I've ever met. And I don't blame that on God, I blame that on people like you, people like you who misuse the teachings of Christ and turn religion into an excuse to control others.
You are one to talk about ignorance of Christian beliefs. I don't have "hate in my heart" but I have lived a christian life up till about 3-4 years ago, and I can certainly say, there is more hate than love in the church. Everyone who has ever tried to teach me anything about Christianity has had more contempt in their hearts than anyone else I've ever met. And I don't blame that on God, I blame that on people like you, people like you who misuse the teachings of Christ and turn religion into an excuse to control others.
Reading this thread has made me ill!! I just dont even know what to say to any of it! I think the points have been argured to death(And I have to say well done Btljuice)! It saddens me to no end that we are still trying to understand each other. When its just a fact of life that we are all different and we need to accept that and try and be more tolerant!!
I agree, I wish we all could be more tolerant of things, myself especially.
I agree, I wish we all could be more tolerant of things, myself especially.
SaintBeam said:No, it is true that you are intolerant but I forgive you because I know that your intolerance is based on your ignorace of Christian beliefs. Perhaps you see hate everywhere because you have so much of it in your own heart.
Your wrong here. I have no hate in my heart. I dont hate anyone or anything. I have tried hate... and it gets you no where. It doesnt answer any of the questions we have. I dont understand how I have been hateful at all or why you have that perception of me.
Zeta said:
I love you just the way you are. And I know you love me just the way I am. We accept eachother for who we are, who we arnt, and who we might adventually be. Ahhh sigh true friendship.
Your wrong here. I have no hate in my heart. I dont hate anyone or anything. I have tried hate... and it gets you no where. It doesnt answer any of the questions we have. I dont understand how I have been hateful at all or why you have that perception of me.
Don't bother MPP, I've heard this kind of defense before, they don't think of anything good to say so he accuses you of being full of hatred or whatever. People with his kind of attitude about Christianity have been using the same lines trying to "explain" to awesomeness of God to me for my whole life, and it doesn't get any less ridiculous.
Don't bother MPP, I've heard this kind of defense before, they don't think of anything good to say so he accuses you of being full of hatred or whatever. People with his kind of attitude about Christianity have been using the same lines trying to "explain" to awesomeness of God to me for my whole life, and it doesn't get any less ridiculous.
Anyway, my point is that God and Country should be seperate and the lifestyles of one group of people should not be held more acceptable than another.
Mister_Prophet said:
It just makes me sad... Its so frustrating when you want to understand someone or at least where they are coming from... and they dont seem to want to take the time to understand you or your position on things.