Yeah, with pcycos like me around, u can never be too carefull!
HEAD SLAYER GOAT of the Black Hand BMA tribe.
HEAD SLAYER GOAT of the Black Hand BMA tribe.
....
- Thread starter Gener@l Motors
- Start date
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At work, we carry guns for self-defense. A lot of people seem to think that we're trained to shoot for the kneecaps, the hands, the legs, or somewhere where we can incapacitate an attacker without killing him. Apparently all those people have NEVER fired a gun, and certainly not while simultaneously staring down the barrel of one.
In the middle of a gunfight, there is NO WAY you will be able to hit someone in the leg or arm intentionally, unless you're one HELL of a shot. Chances are you're not. When we're trained to defend ourselves with firearms, we're trained to KILL. If you want to be politically correct, we're trained to STOP. But since that usually means putting six 125 grain Gold Dot hollowpoints into someone's chest, I take that to mean killing.
Hopefully I never have to do that. Sure, it's sorta glamorous and exciting to dream about it, but something like that will be on your conscience FOREVER. I could probably justify it in my mind easily, since unless the person I killed wasn't putting my life or someone else's in immediate and serious danger, I wouldn't have fired. But also the legal process you have to go through is EXTREMELY distasteful; just ask anyone who's ever been through it. You WILL be charged with murder or manslaughter, and the onus is on YOU and your defense team to prove it otherwise.
Hopefully that clears up some misconceptions about 'shooting to wound'.
In the middle of a gunfight, there is NO WAY you will be able to hit someone in the leg or arm intentionally, unless you're one HELL of a shot. Chances are you're not. When we're trained to defend ourselves with firearms, we're trained to KILL. If you want to be politically correct, we're trained to STOP. But since that usually means putting six 125 grain Gold Dot hollowpoints into someone's chest, I take that to mean killing.
Hopefully I never have to do that. Sure, it's sorta glamorous and exciting to dream about it, but something like that will be on your conscience FOREVER. I could probably justify it in my mind easily, since unless the person I killed wasn't putting my life or someone else's in immediate and serious danger, I wouldn't have fired. But also the legal process you have to go through is EXTREMELY distasteful; just ask anyone who's ever been through it. You WILL be charged with murder or manslaughter, and the onus is on YOU and your defense team to prove it otherwise.
Hopefully that clears up some misconceptions about 'shooting to wound'.
<font color="#F9C700">In my opinion, education is the answer to solving the gun problems in school. The problem is that we should not just be teaching the kids, we should be teaching the parents as well. There were a lot of warning signs with all of those kid-shooters, the parents just did not recognize them or chose to ignore them.
In addition, I say we take all the money we are spending to investigate and enforce the banning of firearms and the money the NRA spends to campaign against it and invest in metal detectors and cops for schools.
And then we shoot make it a practice to prosecute parents who leave firearms unlocked and/or within easy reach of children. The parents should be charged for what the children commit if the children commit the crime with their parents weapon. There is no excuse for not keeping your guns out of your kids hands...unless they are using them WITH your supervision.
Bans suck because I, for one, will feel much more comfortable when I have my Glock next to my bed at night (have not bought it yet...soon). The world is not safe these days. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Shan
<font color="#F9C700">Quit playing with yourself...come play with us.
Infiltration 2.8 Servers On-line soon.
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In addition, I say we take all the money we are spending to investigate and enforce the banning of firearms and the money the NRA spends to campaign against it and invest in metal detectors and cops for schools.
And then we shoot make it a practice to prosecute parents who leave firearms unlocked and/or within easy reach of children. The parents should be charged for what the children commit if the children commit the crime with their parents weapon. There is no excuse for not keeping your guns out of your kids hands...unless they are using them WITH your supervision.
Bans suck because I, for one, will feel much more comfortable when I have my Glock next to my bed at night (have not bought it yet...soon). The world is not safe these days. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Shan
<font color="#F9C700">Quit playing with yourself...come play with us.
Infiltration 2.8 Servers On-line soon.
<a href="http://www.sgservers.com"><img border="0" src="http://www.sgservers.com/images/title_sm.gif"></a></p>
Nonviolence..nice.
In fact I try to get into as few violent situations as possible - as do most of us, I suppose. We also have to admit, that nonviolence has achieved some great victories, as in India; but still there were many people killed until India was free, so I wouldn't totally call it a nonviolent process.
I think the main problem is, that violence is part of the human nature itself. Man was born as a partial hunter, and every hunter has some kind of instinc to kill. Of course one could claim that in the centuries gone by, this instinct has faded, but taking a look around I suppose it has not.
Most 'orthodox' nonviolent people make one mistake: they suppose since they won't hurt anyone, every other man could do the same. Since I believe I would hurt someone, if I'm in danger and had the possibility to defend myself, whether or not with firearms, I suppose anybody else in this world would do so - same generalization as before, but the other way round.
I guess violence will stay a problem for the next decades/centuries, and as long as it is, I guess I'll feel better with something to defend myself, hoping never to be in any situation, which brings up the need to do so.
Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing
In fact I try to get into as few violent situations as possible - as do most of us, I suppose. We also have to admit, that nonviolence has achieved some great victories, as in India; but still there were many people killed until India was free, so I wouldn't totally call it a nonviolent process.
I think the main problem is, that violence is part of the human nature itself. Man was born as a partial hunter, and every hunter has some kind of instinc to kill. Of course one could claim that in the centuries gone by, this instinct has faded, but taking a look around I suppose it has not.
Most 'orthodox' nonviolent people make one mistake: they suppose since they won't hurt anyone, every other man could do the same. Since I believe I would hurt someone, if I'm in danger and had the possibility to defend myself, whether or not with firearms, I suppose anybody else in this world would do so - same generalization as before, but the other way round.
I guess violence will stay a problem for the next decades/centuries, and as long as it is, I guess I'll feel better with something to defend myself, hoping never to be in any situation, which brings up the need to do so.
Snakeye /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing
Gryphon, you'd be surprised how easy it is not to kill somebody with a gun. Of course you're not going to aim for the hands or knees (they're smaller targets then the head, which is small on its own) but you're going to go for the target's centre mass. To actually kill the target, you'd need a good heart shot, one good enough to collapse a valve or chamber, one to the liver, good enough to destroy the whole thing (have you ever seen what happens to blood if your liver gets destroyed, btw? Its sick, it turns almost black and oil like in thickness), or, you'd have to collapse both lungs, since the person can live long enough on one lung to get repaired, or sever the spinal column high enough to kill them, otherwise they'll just be paralyzed from x (where x is the region/region number down).
Of course, if you're a good shot, you should be shooting just under the sternum so the passes happily under the breastbone and travels into the best kill zone -- even then, there's a likelihood that the person may not die. And since you are trained to stop, you're going to have somebody call 911 at that point, and attempt to secure him and his weapon. You're NOT going to walk up to him and pump round after round into him
Of course, if you're a good shot, you should be shooting just under the sternum so the passes happily under the breastbone and travels into the best kill zone -- even then, there's a likelihood that the person may not die. And since you are trained to stop, you're going to have somebody call 911 at that point, and attempt to secure him and his weapon. You're NOT going to walk up to him and pump round after round into him
DIE BIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATCH! DIE DIE DIE!
Yeah... your defence team would have a helluva time with that one.
Yeah... your defence team would have a helluva time with that one.
Ah yes, Mohatma Gandhi , the prince of non violent resistance.
He was indeed a great man, who did much for his people, and here's what he has to say...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence. [/quote]
and this one too...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
from "Gandhi, An Autobiography", M. K. Gandhi, page 446 [/quote]
Gener@l Motors, you are an ass.
Not for having anti-gun or pro-gun control beilefs, but for coming here with a piss poor excuse for an argument.
You basicaly said that if one has anti-guncontrol beliefs, and support the National Rifle Association, that they are defacto supporters of the sh.ts that shoot up schools. And furthermore that if you are under 18 and have these beliefs that you are predesposed to homicidal (or even masshomicidal) tendencies.
Who's the reactionary here?
Then you try to direct us to some page on non violence (and flutes??).
Jesus man, how freakin hard is UBB code?
So are you trying now; after irrationaly pointing fingers, calling names and resorting to hyperbole, to actualy attempt a real dialog?
Give me a fukcing break /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
He was indeed a great man, who did much for his people, and here's what he has to say...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence. [/quote]
and this one too...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.
from "Gandhi, An Autobiography", M. K. Gandhi, page 446 [/quote]
Gener@l Motors, you are an ass.
Not for having anti-gun or pro-gun control beilefs, but for coming here with a piss poor excuse for an argument.
You basicaly said that if one has anti-guncontrol beliefs, and support the National Rifle Association, that they are defacto supporters of the sh.ts that shoot up schools. And furthermore that if you are under 18 and have these beliefs that you are predesposed to homicidal (or even masshomicidal) tendencies.
Who's the reactionary here?
Then you try to direct us to some page on non violence (and flutes??).
Jesus man, how freakin hard is UBB code?
So are you trying now; after irrationaly pointing fingers, calling names and resorting to hyperbole, to actualy attempt a real dialog?
Give me a fukcing break /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
No, Gener@l Motors is right, the majority of us here are school shooters, we´ve astablished that ouerselves.
Yes indeed, alot of us were black clothes and even trenchcoats, most of us have only a small group of freinds with whome we are clouse, and yes, we like guns too.
We fit the bill exactly, ouer desciptiom hangs next to the emergance fire drills on most any school.
Now its up to the govenment to save the world from the evil that is us, how could we be anything but evil!
"BAH!"
HEAD SLAYER GOAT of the Black Hand BMA tribe.
Yes indeed, alot of us were black clothes and even trenchcoats, most of us have only a small group of freinds with whome we are clouse, and yes, we like guns too.
We fit the bill exactly, ouer desciptiom hangs next to the emergance fire drills on most any school.
Now its up to the govenment to save the world from the evil that is us, how could we be anything but evil!
"BAH!"
HEAD SLAYER GOAT of the Black Hand BMA tribe.
Why do we always assume that one owns a gun for self defense? There's an awful lot of hunting and target competition happening in the US.
Regarding hunting, Mojo - correct me if the news report was skewed - but I saw recently that `gun control' in Canada has reduced the number of licensed hunters from 500,000 odd to just over 100,000, and the increasing wildlife numbers are becoming a problem.
As for anything else, try this on for size: It's my right to own guns, and I want to. That's all. What's more, I don't want your approval, and I sure as hell don't need to justify myself.
Regarding hunting, Mojo - correct me if the news report was skewed - but I saw recently that `gun control' in Canada has reduced the number of licensed hunters from 500,000 odd to just over 100,000, and the increasing wildlife numbers are becoming a problem.
As for anything else, try this on for size: It's my right to own guns, and I want to. That's all. What's more, I don't want your approval, and I sure as hell don't need to justify myself.
That's the spirit, Casull.
Besides, I'm all for hunting. I love hunting. The idea of killing my own food (and killing it more humanely than slaughter house conditions, at that) is very appealing to me, and some of the meat from wild animals is just great. Bear meat is especially good. If you cook bear steaks, they come out like a mix of cow and jerked meat.
I think, however, killing animals for sport is just as vile as killing another animal for sport -- people.
Saying that a shooting competition is bad is like saying that ping pong is bad. Sure, you could accidentally shoot somebody with a gun during a competition, but the ping pong ball can get lodged down somebody's throat. There's always an idiot factor and a safety factor in any sport. That's just the risk you take when you manipulate the physical world for fun.
I'm not to sure where you saw this about hunters dropping from half a million to a hundred thousand... there's WAY more registered hunters in Ontario alone than half a million. And there's a helluva lot of bow hunters
Besides, I'm all for hunting. I love hunting. The idea of killing my own food (and killing it more humanely than slaughter house conditions, at that) is very appealing to me, and some of the meat from wild animals is just great. Bear meat is especially good. If you cook bear steaks, they come out like a mix of cow and jerked meat.
I think, however, killing animals for sport is just as vile as killing another animal for sport -- people.
Saying that a shooting competition is bad is like saying that ping pong is bad. Sure, you could accidentally shoot somebody with a gun during a competition, but the ping pong ball can get lodged down somebody's throat. There's always an idiot factor and a safety factor in any sport. That's just the risk you take when you manipulate the physical world for fun.
I'm not to sure where you saw this about hunters dropping from half a million to a hundred thousand... there's WAY more registered hunters in Ontario alone than half a million. And there's a helluva lot of bow hunters
I think it was a Peter Jennings report, and it's highly likely that I remembered the wrong number of zeros. But I think it was that ratio.
All that "I've seen the horrors of war, and so you shouldn't have guns" bollocks gets me all riled up. It's a good thing I'm on a fairly even keel, what with all the evil guns in my house. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Anyway, one of the meatiest pro-gun propaganda statements I've seen in a while was on a T-shirt I saw a woman wearing the other day. It said:
"I wasn't raped. I was armed."
I love that s.hit.
All that "I've seen the horrors of war, and so you shouldn't have guns" bollocks gets me all riled up. It's a good thing I'm on a fairly even keel, what with all the evil guns in my house. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Anyway, one of the meatiest pro-gun propaganda statements I've seen in a while was on a T-shirt I saw a woman wearing the other day. It said:
"I wasn't raped. I was armed."
I love that s.hit.
You guys gotta understand
Where Gener@l Motors is coming from, tho.
He's in the Netherlands, a company that's been Steamrolled twice in the last century. Of course he's going to dislike weapons. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I wanna be an elven ranger, I want a life that's full of danger,
Where Gener@l Motors is coming from, tho.
He's in the Netherlands, a company that's been Steamrolled twice in the last century. Of course he's going to dislike weapons. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I wanna be an elven ranger, I want a life that's full of danger,
Cultural differences
Being from the UK where gun control is not really an issue I sort of understand where Gernera@l Motors is coming from. But he should understand that without Gun’s people would just start using something else to obtain their goals, a la knives. Knives are easily concealed brutal and available over the counter in almost every country in the world. Sure they are also a very important tool in many trades (I own a few myself and do not want to see them banned) but people will always abuse whatever resources are at hand, there are crazy people everywhere not just in the US. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Being from the UK where gun control is not really an issue I sort of understand where Gernera@l Motors is coming from. But he should understand that without Gun’s people would just start using something else to obtain their goals, a la knives. Knives are easily concealed brutal and available over the counter in almost every country in the world. Sure they are also a very important tool in many trades (I own a few myself and do not want to see them banned) but people will always abuse whatever resources are at hand, there are crazy people everywhere not just in the US. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Hunting is fun, Fishing is boring, but use a bow. Then see how much you can kill. If you take a shotgun and unload it on a flock of geese, you are going to hit some, while if you use a bow, you will be lucky to hit anything. Its a matter of skill. There is no skill hunting geese with a shotgun.
Sometimes I feel like you want me to fail...
Pacman@planetunreal.com
Sometimes I feel like you want me to fail...
Pacman@planetunreal.com