3DBuzz Oldschool UT3 Mapping Contest

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Zak

New Member
May 29, 2008
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This is great to get new people into mapping but I feel that it handicaps people who want to bring someting new to the table. I won't be entering anything unfortunately because I believe in 100 percent custom maps for myself. But I'm a texture artist so thats where I'm coming from. This is a good way to get new mappers into the mod community but I think that if those people want to make something custom they need to learn the tools. Where will we be in the future if mappers keep using premade assets and never tackle the learning curve for content creation of this generation? I think that some mudbox/zbrush to Unreal Ed VTMs is the way to go to really help out the community. Some clear cut this is how you make a normal map correctly using a high poly model and so on. While I feel this is more important to help out new mappers/modders this is still a good idea. I just wish the rules were more flexible.

Thank you! In between the lines of your post is the entire reason we're holding this contest and the very crux of what we think is slowing down the mod community.

Game development (as a whole, not just Unreal) has steadily become more and more difficult with every generation of games, and it has gradually required the efforts of more and more people to create a game. Notice how long the end credits for most games are these days? Long gone are the teams of a dozen (or in modern cases even two or three dozen) coming together to produce a game. Out of necessity, game development is taking on a production model much similar to the world of film visual effects, in which you have a massive team of very specialized people each working in very small niches.

That's why mod development is slowing down. It's not fun anymore! To make even a simple mod, you've got to personally take on the workload of a small team of people. Who would want to do that? They don't even do that in the industry.

Look at Epic's Level Designer job opening here.

Note the first paragraph:

We're seeking level designers experienced with UnrealEd or equivalent tools, who can build solid, visually stunning environments and scenarios for a 3D game. Level designers at Epic bring together the work of a talented team of modelers, texture artists, and scripters, and it's up to them to combine them in a way that is compelling and fun.
It's just saying that you need to be experienced with the Editor and that you need to be able to work with a TEAM of modelers, texture artists, and scripters. NOT that you need to be able to do the work of that entire team. You'll also note that they prefer (not "require") applicants with a WORKING knowledge of 2D and 3D tools. But a "working" knowledge is far from "fluency."

The truth is there is a niche for those people who can use the editor and a group of assets that have been made for them to create a well constructed level. But most people out there who want to get into game modding don't see it that way. Many people still have the (mis)conception that development has not changed over the last decade or so, and that one must be a Jack of All Trades in order to really go out there and get a job.

The mod-community-to-be is staring down the barrel of all of the technical skills required to make even the most simple of game assets, and it scares the heck out of them. And rightly so. It's already to a point where you will have several people working on the kinds of things that most modders want to do. And the rookies are seeing the RESULTS of the work, but missing the fact that it takes the efforts of many to produce those results.

Rome wasn't built in a day. But more importantly, it wasn't built by a just one person, either.


But let me jump away from all of that for a minute. Sometimes the key to getting people started in something big is to show them how they can take on a small portion first. And that's really what this contest is about. It's about tackling a particular niche in the game industry and - with any luck - exposing MORE people to this universe. If they want to branch out from there and start taking on new niches, then that's awesome! But some may want to just focus on the key aspect of this contest, and it should be known that there is a place for those people out there as well.

As for handicapping... well, you can't ever have a rule that doesn't handicap SOMEONE. At the same time, I don't think that removing custom content from the contest precludes the ability to bring something new to the table. However, as has already been stated by Anuban, for those people that absolutely must make something that is completely their own, Epic is already holding an absolutely KILLER contest, and we certainly don't want to draw attention from that. Rather, we're trying to attract those people who aren't (yet) ready or are not interested in the various fields within asset development, and would rather focus on making great levels with the tools at hand, even if it just serves as a way to get them started on a much bigger path in the future.

We (all of us, including you), whether we acknowledge it or not, WANT as many people as we can get into the mod community. Look at Microsoft and their slow (if existent) progression toward allowing user-developed content. If more gamers out there were into this sort of thing, it would become more of a clear cut case that Microsoft would WANT to open up the ability for user-developed content (For UT3) on Xbox 360. We would have it already.

But this will require small steps. Sometimes you've got to show people how that it's possible for them to walk, and thereby empower them to want to start running.
 
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fleshsniper1

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
54
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Hi Zak, i am working on 2 UE3 project, both TC. With this contest ill have to put those 2 aside for now. I love the idea of this contest. Im giving it a try but im quite new.

What do you guys look for in a deathmatch map :). What do we need to take into consideration.

Thanks
 

fleshsniper1

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
54
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...Uh sry, i didnt see the news update i was reading the older contest announcement. It appears the update explains it.
 

Hourences

New Member
Aug 29, 2000
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Belgium/Holland/Sweden
www.Hourences.com

I completely agree with you. If you would continue with these type of contests in the future, you my also want to focus a little on efficient ideas, which is another reason imo why so many people quit modding. They all try to do the impossible, and then give up because it turns out to be impossible...

Can one guy make the next super mod with dozens of super high poly player characters, weapons, 30 levels, and so on? Can any level designer create a GTA4 like city on their own? No. But I dont think any mod team or any level designer should attempt that either and that is also where the problem is located imo.
People want too much. It is all about the right idea. People are trying to create the impossible, mods that rival 20 mil dollar games and so on.

A fun mod doesn't need dozens of super high poly models. A fun AND unique (!) doesnt need dozens of art assets that have the quality of Epic's stuff. You could make the most cool and original level or mod for UT3 ever with just 3 guys and a simple but very stylish graphical style, like cell shaded, and just one month of work! And I am actually trying so :)

So for future contests, you may want to get people to understand that, have them be realistic in their expectations and designs without having it limit their imagination all too much.

Design in function of your possibilities. Promote efficient planning and design.
 
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Pretty much Zak nails down the problem of the today's modding community. What happened to the simple ones, like the modding times for the UT and UT2k4? From UT and UT2k4 it takes one or more to make a mod, but sounds like UT3 takes more than [insert number here].

It pretty much gets to me is that the contest wants a high quality map with a good gameplay. It is not one they want, but both.
 

Armagon917

TOAST
Mar 6, 2008
339
0
0
The Woodlands, Texas
I completely agree with you. If you would continue with these type of contests in the future, you my also want to focus a little on efficient ideas, which is another reason imo why so many people quit modding. They all try to do the impossible, and then give up because it turns out to be impossible...

Can one guy make the next super mod with dozens of super high poly player characters, weapons, 30 levels, and so on? Can any level designer create a GTA4 like city on their own? No. But I dont think any mod team or any level designer should attempt that either and that is also where the problem is located imo.
People want too much. It is all about the right idea. People are trying to create the impossible, mods that rival 20 mil dollar games and so on.

A fun mod doesn't need dozens of super high poly models. A fun AND unique (!) doesnt need dozens of art assets that have the quality of Epic's stuff. You could make the most cool and original level or mod for UT3 ever with just 3 guys and a simple but very stylish graphical style, like cell shaded, and just one month of work! And I am actually trying so :)

So for future contests, you may want to get people to understand that, have them be realistic in their expectations and designs without having it limit their imagination all too much.

Design in function of your possibilities. Promote efficient planning and design.

I agree. I'm still all about custom content but goals have to be realistic with this generation of content creation. I think that if a CTF map for say UT3 is based in a destroyed subway area then the artists should focus on essential art assets like the subway cars/trains...whatever you call them; and anything that is a necessity to what you're trying to do. Then use the assets that shipped with UT3 around that. I think that narrowing your focus on custom assets to what you absolutly need for your idea would be the way to go also. Then you're looking at a lot of work, but not something thats impossible. So that for this example you're looking at a subway car, the tracks, and some address signs on the cieling to create you main area and thats it for custom content or I should say assets.

You could split something like that up pretty well I think also. A guy on high poly, one on texturing for those few custom assets and a guy fleshing out the layout of the level at the same time. Distribute tasks obviously to your talents.

So for custom assets stylized is a great idea as Hourences said or if your trying to do something really detailed then I would focus on a few things and don't try to do it all. I think for me that would be a good approach to get my custom work in there and actually get the thing finished. :)
 
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Hyrage

New Member
Apr 9, 2008
635
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Yeah I mostly agree with Zak too. For the "Old School thing", I think it is called "old school contest" because it's a one month rush contest. Not because the maps should look old school LOLLL.