The Industry Is Dumb: Piracy Edition

[N1ghtmare]

How does the fact you wouldn't have bought a game anyway justify downloading it for free -_o
You obviously wanted it enough to bother downloading it, it's not as if you didn't want it; you weren't forced into downloading it. You just didn't want it in exchange for money items; you don't want to spend money on it so you convince yourself you wouldn't have bought it anyway had the option to steal not been available.
It's just an alternate universe were the possibility of you purchasing the game was nonexistent and were you stealing is therefore completely justifiable.

? ? ?

People wouldn't steal a car just because they weren't planning on ever buying it anyway. They probably would if it was as easy as it is for games. After convincing themselves it was fine.


People who download games always use that as an excuse, it's stewbaggery really.

This. Buy pressing the download button you inherently have given it value. Deep down in your subconscious sees the item as having some worth.

And don't try using "I buy MP games because SP games suck" as an excuse as to the reason you pirate SP games. The fact that you cannot get away with pirating a MP game (due to its online nature) is the only reason you probably purchase those games in the first place.

 

[Plumb_Drumb]

what about waiting for bargain bin prices?

They might lose out on that too.

 

[DarkED]

what about waiting for bargain bin prices?

They might lose out on that too.

Triple-A titles going for $19.99 when they become a Greatest Hit or Platinum Hit is better than not selling them at all. Most of the games that go Greatest Hits or Platinum Hits only do so because there were a ton of pressed copies left in the warehouse after the popularity died down. Selling as many of those extra copies as possible is way better than chucking them into a dumpster.

 

[FragTastic]

legal is legal. you cant expect the consumer to be that fussed about the studio.
Its also fair to expect PC consumers to be sceptical, there have been some truly half a$$ed ports to the PC. Im not talking UT3, theres way worse out there.

Developers dont want to spend time coz they think the platform is dead. Consumers dont want to pay money for rubbish. Hence the more sceptical publishers are about the PC the less they will sell. Bagging out PC users does not help sales. If my local supermarket constantly accused me of being a thief, Id shop somewhere else. Developers need to realize that honest games consumers will feel that way too.

On the other hand piracy is a huge problem, but its across all platforms from PSP\DS to XBOX\PS3 and also of course PC. Possibly this is why devs work such long hrs for so lil money. On that front they totally have my sympathy. However to a large degree it seems that its like the music industry where the actual creators just get screwed over, while greedy middlemen gobble up everything.

Id love to make games, if i had enough talent. Even if i had enough talent i prob wouldnt though, coz the rate of pay vs. the hours invested is just ridiculous. Low skill industries like gardeners and cleaners make way more money per hour and theres something very wrong with that picture

 

[[GU]elmur_fud]

2)...They think they can make an educated estimate on this sort of thing...

These sorts of figures are determined using web crawlers that look at torrents, rapidshare hits, etc. I have dealt with similar companies in the past for Market research.

(IMO)The big problems are:

1) There calculated margins of error are often based off equations that take a bandwidth sample of data passing over a main internet hub and the % of that that they are considering pirated games then determines an average based on their sampled scope (local to global) the difference between that and their surveyed figure is then there margin of error.

2) There are no determinations for scam files, dead end links, or hoaxes.

3) They don't Monitor networks like steam as it is a legit digital transfer and consider that a sufficient means of determining whether the transfer is legit.

For those reasons alone I think their figures are grossly inaccurate. Though I for one am a staunch supporter of not stealing, I don't see this 'study' doing the industry any good.

 

[d3tox]

Well, then, you're an idiot.

ROFL HE CALLED ME AN IDIOT!!!! GG SUPER INTERNET TUFF GUY!!!!!

Some of the best PC games of this decade were singleplayer. Dragon Age, Fallout: New Vegas, Mass Effect, Dead Rising 2, Dead Space, just to name a few. This isn't to say that those games were PC-exclusive; quite the contrary for most of them, but the PC releases are still the best ones if you have the rig to handle it.

True Story and Cheatox Fun Fact: I tried Fallout 3 at a friend's house. I lasted 5 WHOLE MINUTES beyond the vault. No wait, I think I did make it into that first town, only to finally get tired of waiting to kill someone and went off on someone... YAWN.... This same friend, (who I think likes Mass Effect), told me not to bother on that one, as its a snoozer too. They're boring. Why bother? Another True Story and Cheatox Fun Fact: A different friend of mine, one I spent countless hours playing NFL Blitz with, also loves him some Final Fantasy. Guess What? He laughs at the mere thought of me sitting through one of these. It's like a pink elephant. It's just not who I am.

Mass Effect 1 by itself has at least 30 solid hours of gameplay if you really get into it, and the sequel has more.

I get more game play value buying a new "Tactical Shooter X" every couple months than I do with a game like that. That being said, I can't use budget as an excuse, as I've paid for an MMO subscription long term in the past, but hey that's mp. A good mp game is an easy 1000 hours of gaming if its good, and thats because the MECHANICS of the game are solid with good replayability.

So what you're basically saying is, because you refuse to buy, you totally miss out on some good games? That's a really stupid way of thinking.

That is a really stupid way of thinking. I support those who make games I want to play. In other words: I have to WANT to play your game BEFORE you get my money, not the other way around.

My favorite kinds of gaming experiences have always tended to be with others, whether its Monopoly, a split screen console, or mp shooter. I have always loved human opposition no matter what the endeavor. Cheatox Truth: Mario Kart 64 & 3 or more friends & beer = win. Goldeneye & 3 or more friends & beer = win. I even did the late nite stoner risk games in college. I still play in a somewhat regular poker home game with friends that's gone on for close to 10 years now.

No, a formulaic SP experience isn't fun for me at all. I could sit here and rant about what I don't like in a SP game, but the truth is, all I require is a solid gameplay mechanic with a dose of Human opposition, and I've got all the gaming I could ever require. Don't give me any "OMG BUT THE STORY!" bitching either, harlequin novels are sold for their "stories" too...

Think of it in Super Bowl terms. If you have to have the commercials, the pre game crap and half time crap to enjoy the big game, I pity you, as you get one night of football a year. If you love the X's and O's of one of the deepest and enjoyably strategical sports, and you don't need (or want) all the other garbage that goes with it, then you get the hours and hours of enjoyment from a single game. After all, football is itself a game thats been play countless times...

STFU YOU EFFIN IDIOT.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

For those reasons alone I think their figures are grossly inaccurate. Though I for one am a staunch supporter of not stealing, I don't see this 'study' doing the industry any good.

As for "how does it make it okay to pirate if you wouldn't buy the game anyway", it doesn't. The reason this is often brought up in these conversations is that, to a publisher, one download equals one lost sale. That's just not true, in fact I'd be surprised if 1% of the people who pirate games would actually buy them if they couldn't download them for free.

 

[Trynant]

I'm not going to argue your other reasons but

1) They claim that any money was lost.

They did not claim any money was lost. They ****ing said the exact opposite. The Destructoid article you got it from claimed they claimed money was lost, which is hilarious because the quote they use where this UKIE group emphasized that they were not claiming this as lost money.

I wouldn't normally say L2Read but yeah.

Really, I feel like it's the press who is dumb in this case.

 

[Arnox]

I'm not going to argue your other reasons but



They did not claim any money was lost. They ****ing said the exact opposite. The Destructoid article you got it from claimed they claimed money was lost, which is hilarious because the quote they use where this UKIE group emphasized that they were not claiming this as lost money.

I wouldn't normally say L2Read but yeah.

Really, I feel like it's the press who is dumb in this case.

Hey! Sir_Brizz doesn't have to take back talk from a dumb cat in a monocle!

 

[N1ghtmare]

In other words: I have to WANT to play your game BEFORE you get my money, not the other way around.

If you DL it before hand you already have shown inherent interest that you want it.

And really dude, if you want to see what a game is like it is as simple as youtubing gameplay videos. I do it all the time.

 

[Jackal]

I enjoy everyone waiving their cocks around like they are the master of know it all and what not.

Every gamer is different.

Me? I pirate games. I downloaded Fallout 3 after it came out. Played the **** out of it, bought the GOTY edition on steam (only after I bought it at walmart too though) So now I own 2 copies of Fallout 3 GOTY. pfft. Same thing for Just Cause 2. I played it a lot, bought it when I had the money. Quite a few other games I can also claim this method.

I have downloaded games, played about an hour of them, and tossed them because I didn't like it at all. Demo's are too short to really get a good grasp of game these days. They are 2-3gb's (sometimes) and only have 20-30 mins of game time. Which for me, isn't enough to justify spending $60 on them. I do not download games via P2P, so I'm not sharing anything. Just downloading.

And they would not have been a sale either. Games these days are just hit or miss. I didn't pick up Black Ops. Hell, I didn't even pirate it after the PC version got shafted.

So to say that a download = a loss of sale is false. If anything, it has saved me money from buying crap, and it has helped devs/pubs get the money that I paid to have some of the games that I downloaded.

These days, word of mouth and suggestions from friends and message boards is one of the biggest factors of me buying a game.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I'm not going to argue your other reasons but

They did not claim any money was lost. They ****ing said the exact opposite. The Destructoid article you got it from claimed they claimed money was lost, which is hilarious because the quote they use where this UKIE group emphasized that they were not claiming this as lost money.

I wouldn't normally say L2Read but yeah.

Really, I feel like it's the press who is dumb in this case.

Part of the article said that if 1 of every 4 pirates bought the game they'd make X amount of money. Regardless of blabbering on about how they aren't claiming money was lost, the implication that they COULD make more money without piracy is as good as an implication that money was lost.

And you have to figure that, because of that, they were HOPING the media would take it out of context. Just look at the article, JAMES STERLING was convinced by their lack of science.

 

[Plumb_Drumb]

I enjoy everyone waiving their cocks around like they are the master of know it all and what not.

Every gamer is different.

Me? I pirate games. I downloaded Fallout 3 after it came out. Played the **** out of it, bought the GOTY edition on steam (only after I bought it at walmart too though) So now I own 2 copies of Fallout 3 GOTY. pfft. Same thing for Just Cause 2. I played it a lot, bought it when I had the money. Quite a few other games I can also claim this method.

I bought World of Goo 3 times.

First, after playing the "free" download, I bought the Windows version from their site for 20 bucks, very early on.
Then, I bought the Indie Bundle; and a recent third time I bought it for my nephew's Mac for 20 bucks, which happened to be tied to all OS downloads (Linux, Windows, Mac).

I don't remember them having all three OS's supported early on, or I would have had that already.
But yeah, I felt good about that. Hopefully it helped fund a new game from them.

Usually I hear people talking about all these copies of one game they've bought, and I think they are crazy, but I now know it can happen easily.

 

[Trynant]

Part of the article said that if 1 of every 4 pirates bought the game they'd make X amount of money. Regardless of blabbering on about how they aren't claiming money was lost, the implication that they COULD make more money without piracy is as good as an implication that money was lost.

And you have to figure that, because of that, they were HOPING the media would take it out of context.

So implying that piracy may, just possibly might, be costing developers money is a stupid thing for someone to do. And no, you don't have to figure that this group is out to make sensationalist headlines in the press (that's pretty much all Jim Sterling's doing from what I'm seeing); you can figure that maybe they're trying to spread the word about their research, as scientific or unscientific as it may be.

Just look at the article, JAMES STERLING was convinced by their lack of science.

What the hell are you even saying right here? For one, the article is a piece of ****. Two, Jim Sterling has been little more than a troll from what I've read. Three, the article is speaking more against piracy sucking than the UKIE guy is.

The dumbest part of this whole thing is getting a quote from something less than a second-hand source and then taking things way out of proportion.

Here's another quote from the same interview, this time the article is from someone who is not JAMES STERLING:

The notion that piracy equals lost sales has long been a cause of debate and may never be proven, but Rawlinson says UKIE will “commission research that will endeavour to measure what is happening in the download/illegal sales arena in a more scientific way, but it will always be difficult to translate illegal sharing and downloads and pirate sales to a loss of legitimate sales and therefore the real effect on industry.”

Maybe, just maybe, these guys aren't Dumb with that capital D.

 

[Plumb_Drumb]

I don't think there's a reliable way to arrive at a concrete answer for any given title.

Surely some sales are lost, but how many that is it is impossible to say, now and probably forever.

 

[Peavey]

Plumb is Drumb: Privates be a-squishin'

 

[Sir_Brizz]

So implying that piracy may, just possibly might, be costing developers money is a stupid thing for someone to do.

It is stupid to do because pirates are NOT costing the developers or the publishers more money, unless you consider the money they are wasting on developing new ways to annoy the crap out of their loyal, paying customers.

And no, you don't have to figure that this group is out to make sensationalist headlines in the press (that's pretty much all Jim Sterling's doing from what I'm seeing); you can figure that maybe they're trying to spread the word about their research, as scientific or unscientific as it may be.

Like I said, it doesn't matter how much the article tries to excuse the fact that they are making up sensationalist numbers that they hope the media will latch on to. The article makes conjecture and then says "don't pay any attention to the conjecture we made because x, and y, and.... well, z." That's like writing a whole article about how millions of people are murdered every day and then in the last paragraph saying "Of course, I haven't and can't check my numbers. I'm sure you understand."

What the hell are you even saying right here? For one, the article is a piece of ****. Two, Jim Sterling has been little more than a troll from what I've read. Three, the article is speaking more against piracy sucking than the UKIE guy is.

Jim Sterling bugs me 98.5% of the time, so I'm saying exactly what you are saying here.

Maybe, just maybe, these guys aren't Dumb with that capital D.

If the people doing the study know that the study is heavily flawed, why are they even releasing the results of the study?

 

[Grobut]

If you DL it before hand you already have shown inherent interest that you want it.

Dealing in absolutes is never a good thing..

There are lots of things i would be interested in if they where free, but would never pay for, and there's lots of things i'd considder buying if they where only 5 Euro's instead of 50.

I am no fan of piracy, but let's not kid ourselves, just because someone showed enough interest to try something for free, doesen't mean they where interested in buying it for full retail price.
That's like arguing that eating one of thouse free samples they hand out in supermarkets means you must buy the product because you showed some interest in it..


Now don't get me wrong, i do feel thease guys should rather check out demo's, gamplay vids and reviews, and possible wait till the game hits the bargain bin if they don't feel it's worth full price, because pirating it sends the wrong message, but downloading it does not autmatically mean they where interested in buying it at the price it was retailing for.

 

[[GU]elmur_fud]

I enjoy everyone waiving their cocks around like they are the master of know it all and what not.

Every gamer is different.

Me? I pirate games. I downloaded Fallout 3 after it came out. Played the **** out of it, bought the GOTY edition on steam (only after I bought it at walmart too though) So now I own 2 copies of Fallout 3 GOTY. pfft. Same thing for Just Cause 2. I played it a lot, bought it when I had the money. Quite a few other games I can also claim this method.

I have downloaded games, played about an hour of them, and tossed them because I didn't like it at all. Demo's are too short to really get a good grasp of game these days. They are 2-3gb's (sometimes) and only have 20-30 mins of game time. Which for me, isn't enough to justify spending $60 on them. I do not download games via P2P, so I'm not sharing anything. Just downloading.

And they would not have been a sale either. Games these days are just hit or miss. I didn't pick up Black Ops. Hell, I didn't even pirate it after the PC version got shafted.

So to say that a download = a loss of sale is false. If anything, it has saved me money from buying crap, and it has helped devs/pubs get the money that I paid to have some of the games that I downloaded.

These days, word of mouth and suggestions from friends and message boards is one of the biggest factors of me buying a game.

Thats called previewing and some companies have purportedly used it as a marketing strategy to get a person as a return customer to eventually purchase thier product.

 

[ambershee]

I've "pirated" games just to get around the copy protection before. Bought Dead Space on release day and couldn't authenticate it because the authentication server didn't ****ing work (and apparently didn't for a full week). With Crysis, their stupid copy protection meant my disk drive couldn't read the disk. Downloaded that too.

Any game with Starforce gets downloaded, and the box never gets opened. I'm not letting that **** near my computer again because I got fed up of the endless stream of error messages on boot - and you can never remove the ****er, even with their 'removal tool' that you have to download separately. I've also got games that won't even run, because the stupid ****ty StarForce drivers don't ****ing work in Vista/Seven.

I have to wonder how many of these supposedly 'pirated' games are a result of this kind of stupidity.