The Industry Is Dumb: Piracy Edition

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dragonfliet

I write stuffs
Apr 24, 2006
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It is stupid to do because pirates are NOT costing the developers or the publishers more money, unless you consider the money they are wasting on developing new ways to annoy the crap out of their loyal, paying customers.

Yeah, because no one EVER pirates a game that they would buy if they couldn't pirate it. It is stupid to insist that every pirated game is a sale lost, it is equally stupid to insist that no pirated game ever loses the dev a sale.

Knowing how many people are pirating games (and if it goes up/down/whatever) can be helpful for devs in ways even other than DRM. There was that Valve piece some time ago where they called a pirate an underserved customer, or something very like that--a philosophy that would benefit from something like this to help turn that into money.

~Jason
 

Sir_Brizz

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Feb 3, 2000
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Yeah, because no one EVER pirates a game that they would buy if they couldn't pirate it. It is stupid to insist that every pirated game is a sale lost, it is equally stupid to insist that no pirated game ever loses the dev a sale.
The problem is that it is a true statement: No pirated game loses a dev a sale, because you can't have a sale that you never got. It's far more important for devs and publishers to focus on the people that are going to buy the game than spend virtually ANY money chasing a ghost that, as soon as you catch it, just floats through the wall of your cage.
Knowing how many people are pirating games (and if it goes up/down/whatever) can be helpful for devs in ways even other than DRM. There was that Valve piece some time ago where they called a pirate an underserved customer, or something very like that--a philosophy that would benefit from something like this to help turn that into money.
I agree, but you and I both know that is not what they are using it for. It's yet again another reason why Valve is having success on the PC and others aren't.
 

Trynant

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Jan 31, 2002
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The problem is that it is a true statement: No pirated game loses a dev a sale, because you can't have a sale that you never got. It's far more important for devs and publishers to focus on the people that are going to buy the game than spend virtually ANY money chasing a ghost that, as soon as you catch it, just floats through the wall of your cage.
Bull****. There are plenty of people out there that will buy a game if they can't pirate it; I know a few myself. Yes, devs should focus on people that will buy the game, but they would be dumb to not try to have some protection against piracy these days.

I agree, but you and I both know that is not what they are using it for. It's yet again another reason why Valve is having success on the PC and others aren't.

STATISTICS ARE OUT TO GET US ALL, THEY WILL STEAL YOUR KITTEN AND KICK YOUR PUPPY
 

Sir_Brizz

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Bull****. There are plenty of people out there that will buy a game if they can't pirate it; I know a few myself. Yes, devs should focus on people that will buy the game, but they would be dumb to not try to have some protection against piracy these days.
How many? Oh, you can't tell? And you can't even assume there will be one because there is no way to run a valid statistic on such things? Okay...

I'm not talking about not doing ANY protection, but Steam or CD key were working just fine to put off casual pirates, the same group of people they are putting off with even worse and more costly protection.
STATISTICS ARE OUT TO GET US ALL, THEY WILL STEAL YOUR KITTEN AND KICK YOUR PUPPY
Dumb statistics are pointless and only benefit the people who are looking for excuses.
 

Trynant

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Jan 31, 2002
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How many? Oh, you can't tell? And you can't even assume there will be one because there is no way to run a valid statistic on such things? Okay...

And they will never ever figure out a way to come up with better measurements of piracy. Ever. Because doing research is pointless. Always.

UKIE seems aware of the flaws in their measurement system from even a brief glance at the articles, and they are quoted in saying they're putting in more funding for better research.

And please don't say that even a semi-accurate way of measuring piracy's effect on the industry would be worthless.
 
Yes, devs should focus on people that will buy the game, but they would be dumb to not try to have some protection against piracy these days.

I am sure that most dev studios do actually focus on the customers however it would only be by proxy, most are contracted by a publisher to create a title that the publisher believes will sell.

Thus it is the publishers job to do the market research and determine what’s hot and what’s not in accordance with the "people" which usually only consists of a questionnaire being filled out but 5 nerds, 2 fan boys and some fat guy named Jeff.

I agree that they are well within their rights to have some protection against piracy but it would also be nice to standardize the protection being used instead of having our computers clogged down by multiple verification systems i.e. Games For Windows Live, Steam, EA Online etc etc.
 

Sir_Brizz

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Feb 3, 2000
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And they will never ever figure out a way to come up with better measurements of piracy. Ever. Because doing research is pointless. Always.
You're right, they won't. There is absolutely no way to improve their numbers tracking at all.
UKIE seems aware of the flaws in their measurement system from even a brief glance at the articles, and they are quoted in saying they're putting in more funding for better research.
Then do better research and report the numbers. If the numbers are admittedly flawed, why are they reporting them at all?
And please don't say that even a semi-accurate way of measuring piracy's effect on the industry would be worthless.
Tell me a reasonable way they could ever even reach barely accurate.
 

tomcat ha

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Feb 2, 2002
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How does the fact you wouldn't have bought a game anyway justify downloading it for free -_o
You obviously wanted it enough to bother downloading it, it's not as if you didn't want it; you weren't forced into downloading it. You just didn't want it in exchange for money items; you don't want to spend money on it so you convince yourself you wouldn't have bought it anyway had the option to steal not been available.
It's just an alternate universe were the possibility of you purchasing the game was nonexistent and were you stealing is therefore completely justifiable.

I was vaguely interested and wanted to try it before buying, but then i tried it and decided i did not want to buy it.
Ive done this in the past and bought the games ive pirated. Civ4 bts comes to mind(that was because those ****ers delayed the release in europe or something) Soldiers heroes of ww2.
Far cry 2 for example did not have a demo, so me pirating was the only chance for me to try it out and decide if i wanted it. I pirated crysis just to see how it looked. Didnt even play it after the first 5 min.

I do the same with music actually and interestingly enough while i may download several new albums every day, i do have a large collection of albums i own than most people i know irl.
 

GRAF1K

****** Kamikaze
Oct 16, 2003
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I too believe that the foolish common man should be shielded from inconclusive studies.

Other things I learned from this thread:

  • Brizz hates DRM
  • Brizz really hates DRM
 

GRAF1K

****** Kamikaze
Oct 16, 2003
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If you read the legal blah blahs on some titles you only purchased a licence to play the game and the Publisher/Studio still own it.

My point exactly. **** them and their 'legal blah blah blahs.' Get up in my face with that **** and I'll pirate wantonly and distribute widely just to show you I can with impunity.

First rule of marketing: Don't make your customers hate you.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
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Feb 3, 2000
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I too believe that the foolish common man should be shielded from inconclusive studies.

Other things I learned from this thread:

  • Brizz hates DRM
  • Brizz really hates DRM
:lol: It's true, I do. What was wrong with a CD key that was validated when you tried to play online? Or a simple (i.e. not retarded and broken) CD check?
 

Grobut

Комиссар Гробут
Oct 27, 2004
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Yes, devs should focus on people that will buy the game, but they would be dumb to not try to have some protection against piracy these days.

How does modern DRM accomplish any of that?

It certainly isen't there for the paying customer, we don't want the hassle, we don't like beeing treated as criminals, and we are not benifited in any way by this software that clogs up our systems, and can often make the games run unstable.

Nor does it protect anyone, because it'll get cracked and removed from the pirate distro's, which actually hurts the industry, because it makes the pirate version the superior version, the version that isen't bogged down by bloatware and DRM, the version that wont crash as often, the version that will never tell you you can't play the game because the DRM server is down.


No really, how does DRM accomplish anything usefull? All i can see is that it drives away paying customers who refuse to buy games with rubbish DRM, it degrades the product by making it annoying to deal with or even prone to crashing, whilst doing nothing to stop pirates, nothing at all, the pirates will find a way, and worse, they can offer us a superior product just because they remove the DRM!
How is that, in any way, shape or form, usefull?


Even if the DRM can delay the pirates for a short period of time, usually 1 or 2 weeks at most, and get some impatient pirates to buy the game in that time period, is it really worth that? Because how many other pirates will just wait it out? And how many paying custmers will boycott the product because of the DRM (and yes, we will, just look at UBI's recent PC sales, they have been so bad UBI has had to tone down their DRM in response)?

And is it really worth kicking out paying customers, to replace them with some pirates? Which one of thouse two do you think will purchase the DLC for the game at a later date?


Look, i am no pirate, if you where to look through my HDD's you would not find a single pirated game on there, they are all legit, and i am no fan of piracy, because it gives the industry an excuse to snub us PC players (even though piracy and the second hand market is probably a much bigger market and threat on the Consoles! But that hardle ever gets mentioned..).

But DRM is no solution to the problem, it doesen't work and it scares away paying customers, it is pretty much the exact opposite of what they should be doing.


If you want people to buy your games, you cannot punish them for buying it with crappy DRM, instead you must reward them for it, give people with valid CD keys great support and benifits, make it worthwhile to have a legit copy, that is the direction they must go if they want to convert pirates, and keep their paying customers.

**** the pirates, and instead focus on rewarding your real customers.
 

Sir_Brizz

Administrator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2000
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If you want people to buy your games, you cannot punish them for buying it with crappy DRM, instead you must reward them for it, give people with valid CD keys great support and benifits, make it worthwhile to have a legit copy, that is the direction they must go if they want to convert pirates, and keep their paying customers.

**** the pirates, and instead focus on rewarding your real customers.
:tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup::tup:
 

-AEnubis-

fps greater than star
Dec 7, 2000
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The Nicest Parts of Hell
Open Source Everything is win.

DRM and protection of intellectual property, in any industry, is wrong.

Especially for multiplayer titles, you hurt your paying customers by not letting pirates do their thing. I want people to shoot. I bought the game, and I don't care how you get players in the server, just do it.

The truth is, you lose no sales. The majority demographics of people who pirate games, go as follows:

1. They pirate because they can. That's it. They wouldn't buy if they couldn't pirate, because they hardly care about the media, but enjoy the defiance.

2. They pirate to preview. Anyone I know, who has half a brain, and likes to be wary of where they spend their money do this. Buy stuff you hate enough times, and this is the ONLY option.

3. They pirate because they can't afford it. If they can't afford it, they won't buy it anyways.

There may be a corner market of people who do it just to save money, "jew" it up if you will, but not only is it impossible to know which market shares each of these groups have, it's ridiculous to assume that any of them would simply buy your games if they HAD to.

To think otherwise, it optimistic greed. Put out quality products, and it won't matter.