StarCraft II

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Defeat

GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO
Apr 2, 2005
2,931
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Illinois
www.google.com
Yup, got beta. darqraven.DarQ.
But I'm in the Netherlands, so good luck trying to find a lagless match:p
Just because you are across the ocean doesn't really mean the game will lag. From what I've read battle.net has a 250ms ping buffer so everyone has at least that. When I played 2k4 on AUS servers I pinged 240 it seems like anyone could play anyone in the world and be fine.
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
1,164
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Just because you are across the ocean doesn't really mean the game will lag. From what I've read battle.net has a 250ms ping buffer so everyone has at least that. When I played 2k4 on AUS servers I pinged 240 it seems like anyone could play anyone in the world and be fine.

Not being able to friend each other does throw up a few hurdles, though;)
 

TWD

Cute and Cuddly
Aug 2, 2000
7,445
16
38
38
Salt Lake City UT
members.lycos.co.uk
For some reason the placement put me in copper league, while I routinely beat buddies in bronze and sometimes silver in custom games.
It seems copper league is mostly people repeating cheese strategies they found on the internet. PvP, half the time people cannon up their main and rush for carriers, another 25% is proxy gateways or void ray rush and the remaining 25% is people going for epic pylonspam-single gateway builds (in other words: no clue. There's been instances where I arrived with 2 Immortals, 6 Stalkers, 2 Sentries and 10 Zealots and all they had was 5 gateways and and expansion. No units at all.).
About the same for PvT and PvZ. All-in Marauders or zergling/roach rushes, all the time.

The difference between copper and bronze seems to be that all of the 'good' BO's and good play habits actually work in bronze, whereas in copper, there's just huge turtlefests where an efficient BO is not going to help you one bit unless you do the exact same thing. The downfall of most copper players, including me in this case, is that the only counter to such a turtly playstyle is perfect macro while expanding. Most players of this level do not yet posess the macro skills and multitasking to efficiently and consistently build off of 4 bases at once. Even though they've got the bases to overpower the turtle, it's hard as hell even controlling that many units correctly, let alone build them all while using chrono boost and building pylons in time to support 12+ gateways AND controlling the battle.
*sigh*

Of course, all those cheese strats have counters, but it becomes really tiresome to not be able to use a standard BO at all, ever. Quite often, I'm taken out by them because I'm trying to experiment with build orders or unit composition and they just go for a quick all-in strat that's a guaranteed kill if you don't scout it in time. The Thor rush Kantham posted is a good example.
Easy to beat once you see it (send your first two zealots to the proxy factory and kill off the SCV constructing it, continue from there with eco advantage), but with strats like this being used almost exclusively in copper, you're going to be spending more time scouting than actually playing.

On Scrapyard alone, there's countless Terran cheeses to watch out for.
PF rush, bunker rush, massive wall-in + turrets to battlecruisers, marauder all-in, thor proxy, quick banshees, floating barracks into your base, them stealing your natural expo with a CC, etc.
The better players I've played often forego strats like these in favor of a safer opening, knowing that they are basically an all-in gamble.

edit: Tried to add you guys, couldn't. Different realms 'n ****. It's been confirmed SC2 will have a realm list at release, just not now.

Where it places you has a lot to do with what you selected as your skill level when you first started playing. You usually don't get sorted into silver/gold/platnium unless you picked the professional option. Most of us pick the casual in the middle, and hence we go in copper/bronze. On the split side if you picked newbie it would probably put you in bronze even if you won all your placement matches.

In copper I see a lot more rush strategies, but the cheeze in bronze is a lot worse. They don't rush you, but instead pull every other cheesy tactic they can. Nydus worms, nukes, banshe rushes, you name it. I feel that this is a game you can just pick up and instantly have fun with. However, it's not a game that you're just going to naturally own with. Once you've won against these various strategies you almost never fall for it again. It just takes a lot of experience to get to that point.

My trick to beating copper turtlers is just going back door on them. Terran it's the M&M drop, Protoss have stalker blink/colossus, and Zerg has the nydus canal. These strategies work on copper players almost every time. However, at the same time I have a fairly decent macro game as Zerg. If I'm able to keep the battle and harassment around your base instead of mine I almost always win.
 

DarQraven

New Member
Jan 20, 2008
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Oh, I have fun with it, don't worry about that. It's just that only my custom games are even remotely RealTimeStrategy. Most of the rest is RealTimeRushDefense.
Which is not too bad and even quite exciting once you figure out how to beat them, but it does get old quick.

Thanks for the tip. I tend to do some templardrops or walk colossi into their base if the map allows it and I feel they are too defensive, but it's hard to combine with solid macro. Especially against a player that's cannoned up their entire main, you're going to have to intensively micro your warp prisms to even get them into the base. Add to that that pretty much any Terran unit has equal or greater range than Protoss and cannons/turrets take out your Observers which are your only scouting possibility as Protoss... You never really know what to build as a counter.
Mass Stalkers with ground weapons upgrades are usually decent, but against a couple of cloaking banshees they're more than useless.

I usually lose control of macro once I'm around 3 bases going into fourth expo or mass units. It's not so much that I'm getting my base harassed and can't move out, it's that I get a choice during these games: Let half my army die unneccesarily while managing my base, or basically forget about my base while maximizing attack/defense efficiency. The latter option nets me with 2000 unused minerals after a minute.

Something I need to work on, I know, but I really believe that's the reason that fortifying strats like these are only viable in copper, maybe bronze - all the higher leagues have sufficient multitasking to counter them.
 
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Defeat

GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO
Apr 2, 2005
2,931
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Illinois
www.google.com
This is helping me a ton with learning counters and such: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Units

edit: Attaching a replay cause it was probably the closest game I've had so far. Criticism appreciated as far as what I could have done better.

I usually quit if my army is pretty much destroyed and things don't look too good but I felt as though I could pull this one back which I did. The medivacs raped my base cause after my scout died I only though the guy was going MM instead of MMM so I went zealots and immortals to counter each. I probably should have used my observer better and actually saw the starport(s) and medivacs :>

@ Kantham, you let your game update through the patches first right?

@Sleepy, I had a guy do pretty much the same thing I did vs you on Metalopolis where I walled myself in. I did what you did and took over the rest of the map and came in with carriers :p
 

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SleepyHe4d

fap fap fap
Jan 20, 2008
4,152
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edit: Attaching a replay cause it was probably the closest game I've had so far. Criticism appreciated as far as what I could have done better.

Nice match. For your first battle with him, he could have finished off your units if he had better micro and done some damage to your econ or even finished you off. You should get some more units early on instead of getting the robotics so soon. Later on when you first killed his expansion you could have come out with more units with better micro, but even the way you did it you could have pushed into his base and done some damage, all he had was that one siege tank. :lol:

Surprisingly he made a lot of thors and tanks despite you having immortals. He made hardly any marines which could have done a load of damage. Doesn't really matter though since you had a counter up for the mech he was massing and ended up winning.
 

Defeat

GET EM WITH THE BACKSMACK WOOOOO
Apr 2, 2005
2,931
0
0
Illinois
www.google.com
I was on like a 6 or 7 game losing streak so I tried something new. This could probably be refined quite a bit better. [see attachment]

edit: Throwing this out here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119535

Sounds like some good games will be going down and you don't even need SC2 to watch them. I wonder how many views this thing is going to get.
 

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Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
That does sound like another "wasting my time about" beta giveaway. I'll just sit it out not caring too much until it probably eventually will show up for me. When you get your beta key directly from Blizzard, I assume you get warned by mail? I go to my Battlenet account where my SC1 battlechest is registered, and all I can see relevant to the beta is the preferences and my rig setup.
 

Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
The ED was released in the latest patch. :tup:
Currently messing around.. will probably post pictures later.
 

Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
Mhh..

I really like everything about the Ed so far except a few things, I really think they must include the layer buttons in the top toolbar and give us a better hint on the start location VS minerals distance minimum-limit. Like they used to do in SC1. Because the way it is right now I can place the starting location right next to pretty much any resources.

EDIT:
Ok, placing a Command Center next to those minerals allows you to get a good placement for the resources; you can't move the CC too close to minerals nor can you place/move the minerals too close to the CC. Purfect. Will post some screens soon!
 
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Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
After some clickfest..

[screenshot]http://j.imagehost.org/0333/Terrain_004.jpg[/screenshot] [screenshot]http://j.imagehost.org/0817/Terrain_005.jpg[/screenshot] [screenshot]http://j.imagehost.org/0617/Terrain_006.jpg[/screenshot] [screenshot]http://j.imagehost.org/0508/Terrain_001.jpg[/screenshot]

Still getting the hang of it. Galaxy ED is much more enjoyable than StarEdit.
The new strategies/features also brings variety in layouts.
 
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SleepyHe4d

fap fap fap
Jan 20, 2008
4,152
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You know what I've always found extremely stupid in Blizzards map design? The lines of trees. Wtf is that? It's so man-made and fake looking.
 

Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
Redone the middle and made improvements in layout. For those of you wondering what the watch towers are doing at the backbase where the destructible rocks are, it's for harassment.

[screenshot]http://j.imagehost.org/0048/Terrain_009.jpg[/screenshot] [screenshot]http://j.imagehost.org/0487/Terrain_007.jpg[/screenshot]
 

SleepyHe4d

fap fap fap
Jan 20, 2008
4,152
0
0
Just did some testing with the editor, I was wondering how terrain morphing affected units...

[SCREENSHOT]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5663/screenshot000li.jpg[/SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT]http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3626/screenshot002jew.jpg[/SCREENSHOT]

Apparently it doesn't.

And even funnier is the terrain auto-morphs to even out when you build buildings on it. What the hell is the point of this?

My next adventure is actually trying to make a usable map.



PS: What would be awesome and something they should implement is real time collaborating on making a map. :eek:
 
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