Welcome To A New America!!!!! (For the better even)

[Zur]

You can't really expect things to turn around instantly with the massive kick in the balls that the subprime crash was and all that followed it. I don't know if you realize the scale of what happened. Activity everywhere in the world has basically slowed down since last October.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I know the scale of what happened. In fact, this graph shows it with pinpoint detail:

(in case that image gets scrubbed for leeching: http://www.businessinsider.com/shiller-house-prices-still-way-too-high-2009-2)

The market had to reset, there was no other way this could go. From execs at huge companies to Joe Shmoe at your local mortgage broker to your average home buyer, every moron convinced themselves that buying a home as an investment and convincing each other that home values could only go up and would never go down. They were willing to do whatever it took to get into a house because they could sell it later for huge gains. And this is really only the beginning of where these problems started (but I think it's the most major area that has had an enormous ripple effects on every other area of our economy, thanks Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac!)

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

right but stocks at a 12 year low doesn't = Obama's fault. can't expect things to turn around overnight, obviously.
regardless, at the end of the day, the guy at the helm takes the fall for the condition of the ship.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Hey everyone blamed Bush for the same thing, right?

Frankly, I want Obama to do well, but he has been doing a poor job of instilling a feeling of confidence and security. Between dumping billions of dollars in the toilet (trillions, right?) and announcing more spending projects, he's not doing the market any favors right now.

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

Well I'd like to see the Republicans offer a real idea other than just disagreeing. Obama can't afford to do nothing so he's doing what is recommended to him by staff and advisers, that's what the president does.

no one really knows what it's going to take.

 

[kiff]

Obama's driving the market down every single time he opens his mouth. Every time he speaks it's tax this, tax that and penalize this industry and penalize that industry. And then it's bounce this check for trillions or and bloat our budget to infinity. Again, the market goes down every time because they know what it means. They know his gang of hacks can't even figure out how to do their own taxes, let alone run a country with any slight sign of fiscal responsibility. Sure the economy was in a decline (and probably would have naturally continued to), but he continually kicks the economy in the gut instead of letting it up for air.

Well I'd like to see the Republicans offer a real idea other than just disagreeing.

that's hilarious. They should have done what McCain said in his campaign. Take 300bil and buy the bad mortgages. That would have had a huge impact as opposed to this retarded spending spree. And now they just keep pumping 10's of billions into things like AIG that will go down despite how many hard earned tax dollars get sucked into the black hole.

 

[SlayerDragon]

Well we broke a government in the region that was functional even if it was very Stalin-esque. Largely implies too much on our part. There is a lot of tribal warfare there and was the arm pit of the world before we got there. I'm not saying we didn't lend a hand. Lets just be clear Iraq wasn't this peaceful place with green hills, rainbows and smiling faces before we got there. But I like your little snipe at America there. I like how a lot of the rest of the world sits back and lets the problem fester, its much more effective to criticize America and write angry letters to the "evil doers" to let them know just how upset you really are with them.

A friend of mine had all of his pens/ markers stolen in Afghanistan by young kids and teens. They literally thought it was magic that it, the pen, a sharpie in particular would produce black lines. Vicious fighting ensued over the sharpies until my friend could come back with more... I was told the look was pure wide eyed jaw dropping facination. To win hearts and minds should we drop spray paint?

I'm not talking about Iraq. I'm talking about Israel/Palestine. Which is generally what people mean when they say "The Middle East" in reference to some greater conflict.

But, let's talk about Iraq. For better or worse we are involved in Iraq. Some might say we have an obligation to "stay until the job's done." But, when is the job done? What defines victory? Those people have a right to determine their own course, and us installing a puppet regime (albeit a so-called democratic one) is not going to help in that regard. Nor did bombing the crap out of their country and then selling contracts to rebuild it to companies at home. Sure, we ousted Saddam, but at what price? The rest of a the world pretty much hates or distrusts us, we've lost credibility in the international arena. We're committed to a conflict that has no clearly defined goals in an area surrounded by people who don't care for our intervention. So what do you do? Stay for the long haul and continue pouring American lives and resources into an unstable region to try and get a foothold? Or do you pull out, bring home the troops and cut your losses and face the consequences of how the world will view us then? It's pretty much a losing situation no matter how you cut it.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

Well I'd like to see the Republicans offer a real idea other than just disagreeing. Obama can't afford to do nothing so he's doing what is recommended to him by staff and advisers, that's what the president does.

no one really knows what it's going to take.

What it's going to take is the natural ebb of the market, except we bloated it up so much this time that it is going to fall hard no matter what anyone tries to do to stop it.

Nothing the government can do is going to help, so we are just borrowing money purposelessly to make it look like the hacks in DC are actually doing anything. Anyone who is anyone is saying this is not only not helping, but making this even worse than it has to be.

I'm sure plenty of Republicans have ideas that will do more good than what Obama is dong. I for one would like to see the government drop $50,000 in every tax payers bank account. That would have a FAR grander net effect than any single thing they have tried so far.

 

[Zur]

How about ... sending everyone to wall street to Guantánamo Bay ? You'd have an an instant job boom as replacements would be needed on condition they do what's possible to stimulate the markets. You could also recoup some of lost money by letting the tourists taunt the financial people behind bars with wads of one dollar bills ballin' style.

Or maybe I'm just being silly.

 

[Luv_Studd]

Hey everyone blamed Bush for the same thing, right?

Frankly, I want Obama to do well, but he has been doing a poor job of instilling a feeling of confidence and security. Between dumping billions of dollars in the toilet (trillions, right?) and announcing more spending projects, he's not doing the market any favors right now.

In my view, it's stuff like this post and the constant Republican negativity that's contributing to the decline. Instead of slinging arrows after ideas are suggested, perhaps contributing to help a common cause would be more appropriate? But.... Of course, showing solidarity & support for the president doesn't win elections.

 

[Luv_Studd]

What it's going to take is the natural ebb of the market, except we bloated it up so much this time that it is going to fall hard no matter what anyone tries to do to stop it.

meantime, let's let the jobs all go down the tubes & businesses crumble.

Nothing the government can do is going to help, so we are just borrowing money purposelessly to make it look like the hacks in DC are actually doing anything. Anyone who is anyone is saying this is not only not helping, but making this even worse than it has to be.

I don't think you'll find "anyone" worth their salt who'd say: do 'nothing' and it will be fine. Banks and businesses are faltering and they are not lending and they are not investing.

I'm sure plenty of Republicans have ideas that will do more good than what Obama is dong. I for one would like to see the government drop $50,000 in every tax payers bank account. That would have a FAR grander net effect than any single thing they have tried so far.

How do you think things will look once that $50k is dried up? Stimulus needs to be like the chinese proverb: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. " You can't just turn over the fishing reel and lake to people. It will require spending and investments to rejuvinate businesses and create jobs. We've seen where tax cuts to the wealthy end up...

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

I'm sure plenty of Republicans have ideas that will do more good than what Obama is dong.

Ok great, I'm sure they might as well, but you never hear them.
So my point was: why don't they come out and share these ideas??

All I hear from the Right in this country is how to disagree with Obama. I've yet to see them try and present their own concrete solution.

 

[kiff]

funny that how this comes up in quite a few forums I'm in and everyone ignores the McCain idea when I bring it up. There's plenty of ideas on the republican side, it just doesnt fit into the Obama socialist ideal.

anyone good at cartoon drawing? It would be funny to have one where there's 2 guys broken down on the side of the road. One of them is yelling "NO!" as the other one is smashing their car's engine with a baseball bat and replying "got any better ideas?!"

 

[Sir_Brizz]

In my view, it's stuff like this post and the constant Republican negativity that's contributing to the decline. Instead of slinging arrows after ideas are suggested, perhaps contributing to help a common cause would be more appropriate? But.... Of course, showing solidarity & support for the president doesn't win elections.

The Republicans aren't the ones filtering this out to America, the Administration is through their action. Lending over a hundred billion dollars to AIG doesn't make the economic future look bright and rosy. If that is what it does for you, you need some serious help. The fact that he wants to spend trillions of dollars more to subsidize mortgages and raise taxes to pay for healthcare crap doesn't help either. Sorry, but that is just reality.

meantime, let's let the jobs all go down the tubes & businesses crumble.

There is no other place for them to go. If businesses are not making money, they are going to weed out the chaff. That is the way it works in the business world.

I don't think you'll find "anyone" worth their salt who'd say: do 'nothing' and it will be fine. Banks and businesses are faltering and they are not lending and they are not investing.

You can find lots of people who think that, what are you talking about? I personally don't care about REASONABLE bailout plans, but looking at how the government is handling AIG, I think it's safe to say that "reasonable" was thrown out the window a long time ago.

How do you think things will look once that $50k is dried up? Stimulus needs to be like the chinese proverb: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. " You can't just turn over the fishing reel and lake to people. It will require spending and investments to rejuvinate businesses and create jobs. We've seen where tax cuts to the wealthy end up...

It will loo a heck of a lot better than dumping trillions of dollars into faltering companies THAT ARE THE VICTIMS OF THEIR OWN IRRESPONSIBILITY. For me and many Americans, $50,000 would more than pay off all of my outstanding debt, not including a house, and would prompt me to buy a car, a house, and spend money on something like a vacation. That would do a lot more for the average American than what the government is currently doing, and it would increase consumer spending because they wouldn't have any (or heavily reduced) debt.

Another thing the federal government could do is force credit reporting agencies to reset credit levels for struggling families so they feel like they can actually GET loans.

The problem isn't that money CAN'T flow through the economy right now, it's that fiscal irresponsibility with everyone from your neighbor to your boss to your boss's bank to your boss's bank's investors has made it nearly impossible to get money to spend anymore.

Ok great, I'm sure they might as well, but you never hear them.
So my point was: why don't they come out and share these ideas??

All I hear from the Right in this country is how to disagree with Obama. I've yet to see them try and present their own concrete solution.

And I'm sure you're constantly reading things from both sides instead of whatever crap CNN decides to print, right?

 

[SkaarjMaster]

It's no secret that I'm a Democrat. I voted for Obama and would gladly do it again. I believe in his policies and everything he's done so far until now. AIG does not deserve anymore money and I sure hope he doesn't give anymore money to the Big 3 car companies either. From here on out, if you can't survive then you go down in flames and let the chips fall where they may. I don't want anymore of my tax dollars going toward executive golden parachutes, but would prefer they go toward a decent healthcare system, education, better roads, better and more rails, better general infrastructure, the environment/alternative energy and just into hands that can spend my tax dollars a little more responsibly. It would be nice if our soldiers got paid what they deserved during and after serving our country also (including better healthcare for them and their families), so my child will not have to serve if he doesn't want to.

 

[[PSI]Snow White]

Hey everyone blamed Bush for the same thing, right?

The Obama Economy
As the Dow keeps dropping, the President is running out of people to blame.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123604419092515347.html

I blame the one

 

[KaiserWarrior]

Blaming any one person for the financial collapse is completely retarded, but whatever.

In other news: AIG lost $62 billion last quarter. To put that in perspective:

In order to waste that much money, they would have to have had a guy standing in front of a fireplace with a bag full of $1000 bills (or bundles of hundreds, whichever is more hilarious for you). This man would have then had to throw almost 8 (actually 7.8) of these bundles into the fire, every second, for the entire quarter. Without a single instant of rest.

How on earth do you piss away that much money, that quickly?

 

[kiff]

How on earth do you piss away that much money, that quickly?

it boggles the mind.

I really don't understand why they keep pumping (literally TONS) money into this crap when they're going to fail anyways. this (should) also boggle the mind.

 

[Jacks:Revenge]

And I'm sure you're constantly reading things from both sides instead of whatever crap CNN decides to print, right?

oh to hell with your naive assumptions.

regardless of what I read, whenever I see a Republican who has the stage on TV (whether in congress, news show, press conference) they are only ever belittling the Democrats. I can't recall the last time one of them spoke out with a clear plan to compete with Obama's.

they have plenty of ways to disagree with him and little or no solutions of their own aside from the good, ole' tax cut. I'm talking about a detailed, well-rounded plan to be presented in opposition to the path we've set out on, and I just haven't seen anything like that from the other side.

 

[kiff]

and they say they listen