Shield Time Pwnt?!?! W!T?F! Is there no end?

[T2A`]

Amp needs to drop when the person holding it is killed. Makes the game funner as it causes the other players who don't have it to be more aggressive.

I agree mostly with xHardxCorex guy, though the line between TDM and TAM has little to do with strategy or newnet. TDM players don't like TAM simply because it's boring as hell to them. And they usually don't agree with handicapping good players or waiting around after being killed, though that just plays into the gametype boringness.

Also, weapons should respawn in something like 10 seconds.

 

[JohnDoe641]

the line between TDM and TAM has little to do with strategy or newnet. TDM players don't like TAM simply because it's boring as hell to them. And they usually don't agree with handicapping good players or waiting around after being killed, though that just plays into the gametype boringness.

Also, weapons should respawn in something like 10 seconds.

I agree with the first part, so does the competative community. Though a 10 second respawn on weapons may be a bit too fast, maybe like 15 -18 so some type of map control is viable.

I don't know why I cut it out, but the part about the amp dropping has always been a great idea and even though quack had it first, the udamage reward mut should be standard imho for the reasons T mentioned.

 

[Scuzzbuster]

Couple of things that could be done...of course my vote is just leave powerups off in DM...but have the reset time for powerups not start clocking until the person with the powerup dies with it. If they don't die with it, then the clock is normal. I actually like the idea of having to stand on the spot where the powerup spawns for a couple of seconds...at least it makes you have to take risk to aquire it...
Think of the camping that would go on waiting for powerup hos to hit those spots so you headshot em while they were on the PU spot...even making you have to stand there for 1.5 seconds would be an eternity in a furious DM.

 

[hal]

Couple of things that could be done...of course my vote is just leave powerups off in DM...but have the reset time for powerups not start clocking until the person with the powerup dies with it. If they don't die with it, then the clock is normal. I actually like the idea of having to stand on the spot where the powerup spawns for a couple of seconds...at least it makes you have to take risk to aquire it...
Think of the camping that would go on waiting for powerup hos to hit those spots so you headshot em while they were on the PU spot...even making you have to stand there for 1.5 seconds would be an eternity in a furious DM.

Heya Scuzzbuster.

I would think that having the powerup timer reset when the person holding dies would harm the player without the powerup. It also would encourage the powerup holder to run, run, run.

Dropping the Amp when you die is an absolute must though. And the idea of a "powerup station" is interesting.

 

[Scuzzbuster]

Heya Scuzzbuster.

I would think that having the powerup timer reset when the person holding dies would harm the player without the powerup. It also would encourage the powerup holder to run, run, run.

Dropping the Amp when you die is an absolute must though. And the idea of a "powerup station" is interesting.

Hey, if my enemy is standing in front of me with an amp, though, he has my permission to run Not sure what you mean by it hurts the player without the PU...I guess if the PU holder kept it until death it would, but the standard time powerups last should still be employed.

Even though there would be some regularity with when the PUs come back, it would become a much more difficult decision to assign a PU camper or team timer to watch the game clock knowing that you can't count on clockwork respawns every 20-60-100 and so forth....something random (more than random initial PU spawn) would benefit TDM and CTF. 1 on 1 DM always needs to have PU off though IMHO...granted the HO of someone who's just laid off the game for about 4 solid months.

Dropping the Powerups where the holder dies harkens back to Q3. I'm not sure how the timing worked, but I know sometimes when you scooped the powerup from someone you just toasted it may be gone very quickly, so I'm assuming the timing/respawning was still happening from the moment it was grabbed. Getting PUs in Q3 is a much rougher proposition though...even worse in Q4 where all the DM servers are packing 12-20 player limits in dinky maps.

 

[edhe]

Small post on this one:

DM is a game, part of that game is to control the powerups.
Fragging is a skill, that skill is transferable to all of the gametypes.

Re: original post - yes that person could play DM better than you, but you had more fragging skill. It's how games work

Learn the timing and you should be a much better DM player than the other person - personally i used to love taking down the pup timers with better fragging skills. Some even get mad because they think that pup timing's all you need, but it's not. Poewrups in DM are comparable to the flag in CTF, object of the game that can let you win.

 

[HardcorexxX]

Small post on this one:

DM is a game, part of that game is to control the powerups.
Fragging is a skill, that skill is transferable to all of the gametypes.

Re: original post - yes that person could play DM better than you, but you had more fragging skill. It's how games work

Learn the timing and you should be a much better DM player than the other person - personally i used to love taking down the pup timers with better fragging skills. Some even get mad because they think that pup timing's all you need, but it's not. Poewrups in DM are comparable to the flag in CTF, object of the game that can let you win.

WORD

 

[Fuzzle]

I feel that controlling shield is too big of an aspect in DM. It's hardly about aim, agility, or reflex. It's all about your ability to substract a double number from the clock.

I've won entire matches just by whoring the shields and mini. I believe the game would be more fun if the maximum shield amount was drastically reduced (to say, 50) so that it no longer was the deciding factor.

 

[-AEnubis-]

In 1on1 it's just to hard to find a "truly even matchup" so that it's not just about controlling that stuff. If your opponent is on the same level a you, then it is much more interesting. It' just too rare, because of DM's design.

 

[stas]

I feel that controlling shield is too big of an aspect in DM. It's hardly about aim, agility, or reflex. It's all about your ability to substract a double number from the clock.

I've won entire matches just by whoring the shields and mini. I believe the game would be more fun if the maximum shield amount was drastically reduced (to say, 50) so that it no longer was the deciding factor.

Thats good idea but i am not sure for all gametypes ex. at ons its hard to face a tank with 150 hp..or at ctf to run away from 5 guys that are running after you.For dm setting max shield and hp would be awesome.

 

[--Under]

Actually, what is rare to find is an opponent that dosent start whining and playing like **** when it becomes 7-0(1v1). Its natural for 90% of players to stop trying when they start loosing. But when both players do their best ALL GAME LONG, skill gap can be way bigger and still have a interesting match. And all that, also because of DM's design. When you have control, even if the opponent his 2X more skilled than you, you can manage to keep him away from his favorite weapons pretty easely.

Example: Im pretty sure most of you guys know Nytejade, he used to be a monster in 1v1. Skill gap between me and him is HUGE but i played my best all game long and i managed to control the map during half the game. it ended like 12-9(for him :'( ) and we both had fun even if the skill gap is very very big betwen the 2 of us.

I think your right Aenubis but you also have to say that its because players start crying when they loose. And thats also the reason why we dont have that much top notch players in North America.

 

[Fuzzle]

Actually, what is rare to find is an opponent that dosent start whining and playing like **** when it becomes 7-0(1v1). Its natural for 90% of players to stop trying when they start loosing. But when both players do their best ALL GAME LONG, skill gap can be way bigger and still have a interesting match. And all that, also because of DM's design. When you have control, even if the opponent his 2X more skilled than you, you can manage to keep him away from his favorite weapons pretty easely.

Example: Im pretty sure most of you guys know Nytejade, he used to be a monster in 1v1. Skill gap between me and him is HUGE but i played my best all game long and i managed to control the map during half the game. it ended like 12-9(for him :'( ) and we both had fun even if the skill gap is very very big betwen the 2 of us.

I think your right Aenubis but you also have to say that its because players start crying when they loose. And thats also the reason why we dont have that much top notch players in North America.

I don't find that your argument holds much water, I mean.. "An inexperienced player can have an interesting fight with an experienced one because of map control."
Wouldn't the experienced player be more likely to assume map control, making it even more one-sided?

 

[--Under]

actually, it is like any other sports, if one of the 2 players really really sucks, itll definitly be one sided. Like not being able to kill a freshly spawned player after pulling a lucky hs/goo/3 rox spam kill. but if there is a REASONABLE skill gap, its ok. Plz read carefully what im saying. If you control map then you die, you loose control. Thats the thing here. So even a lucky goo can make an unexperience player take control.

 

[ShakeZula]

I think this problem would be best solved by the introduction of bullet time.

 

[MonsOlympus]

Well I can tell you now, I have removed the shields and adrenaline from ut2k4 while working on code for a mod and damn! Its so much harder, the weapons work alot more to an advantage and the game becomes about keeping people away from there favourite weapon, not just camping powerups. Not thats really the issue I find people dont camp the powerups at all and if they do its because they know your coming.

Another thing I noticed, alot of you guys seem to know the timings off by heart (generally by looking at many of the posts across the forums). I find this a bit of a concern Im a coder and look at Uscript all day long but still dont know all the timings off by heart. When I play I dont even know how much time has past unless the announcer says 1min remains, I can still grab a powerup long before a bot decides to get there (dont play online much not a fan of high pings.) The makings of a good gamer shouldnt be about maths skills if your good at maths become a programmer, a good gamer should be able to time without a clock, this is probably a skill many are lacking now. Since Ive been playing dm forever now I kind of just know when a powerup is going to spawn, not that I can guess it perfectly. If somebody gets there first who cares thats what the games about, its not like your life depends on it rofl!

That said alot of games revolve around shields/armour like goldeneye or sin, that head armour was fully dominant. There have been more fair options like quake 3 or ut2k4 etc. Its going to happen its going to happen you cant really put shields/armour in the game and expect people not to use it to there advantage as many have said thats part of the skill of dm.

Id have to say remove the clock, if someone wants to use an external timer let them they are only destroying the fun of the thing. With shields or without ut2k4 stands out as a pretty well balanced game (compared to others ofcoarse.)

/end my2cents

 

[ShakeZula]

As you say, removing pups would mean attention was focussed on weapons, but I don't agree that this is a good thing. The pups serve partly as a means of giving players an incentive to move around the map. People would just camp the LtG if they didn't have anything else to go after.

 

[JaFO]

So how is timing/camping a weapon bad and "camping" a resource like a powerup good ?

Removing powerups simply means that ammo and weapons become the 'new' powerups to time/camp.

 

[ShakeZula]

The pups serve partly as a means of giving players an incentive to move around the map. People would just camp the LtG if they didn't have anything else to go after.

?

If you've got weapons and 100a to collect, you have to move. If the 100a goes, any reason not to just sit on top of the LtG for the whole match goes with it.

 

[MonsOlympus]

Yeah timing is going to be important no matter what you do, although without the shield the health vials also become very important as having alot of health is the only way to beat someone with a better weapon. This however forces people to get good at all the weapons instead of relying on timing.

Either way it all evens out in the end, as someone said before a person who is generally better at the game that someone else can still be kept at bay by not allowing them access to certain pickups and weapons.

Id like to see the sound radius for the vials and adrenaline be made smaller as I find I get pwnt all the time as I rely on minor pickups heavily in a match where I dont get a chance at a major pickup. I always avoid people if I know they have full shield and the udamage.

 

[--Under]

I dont want to be mean here but its pretty obvious that most people speaking in this thread dont know much about 1v1(ONLINE).