New scoring system... Proximity=teamwork?

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WizBiz

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Apr 28, 2000
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People like to see how they do in comparison to others in all aspects of everything. You call it rude and selfish, I call it being competitive.

BTW... I think that if I post within 5 minutes of someone, I should get their post added to my post count as well.
 

vedder

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Originally posted by WizBiz
People like to see how they do in comparison to others in all aspects of everything. You call it rude and selfish, I call it being competitive.

There is nothing wrong with friendly competition, but when you sacrifice teamplay and goodwill just so you can get those couple extra points you have a problem. I'd hate to be friends with you if that is your mentality.
 

WizBiz

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Apr 28, 2000
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Actually eddie, I don't see it as being rude and selfish, I was merely quoting you. I think you attached those words to demonize someone who likes to see their statistics to justify your argument. Either way, I play Infiltration on public servers to improve my personal skills. I practice with my clan in private to improve our teamwork skills.

This comes from the manual:

Player classes don’t exist, soldier!

The weapons and equipment that you choose, along with how you use those items in game will determine what kind of soldier you are. We give you the tools to do the job. How you do it is up to you. Take the skills you learn to other missions and objectives. If you become a talented sniper, it’s because you develop the skill and respect to use the weapon properly, along with the tactics involved.
Player classes don’t exist, soldier!

I just don't see why you would try to encourage someone to play differently based on their score. This new scoring system, in my opinion, goes against the philosophy ("How you do it is up to you")written on the front page of the manual, which is quoted above.
 

Cholo Grande

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May 29, 2001
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You guys aren't getting my point. I LOVE teamplay. That's why I play INF. Of course, you will NEVER get teamplay on any server unless the people on are used to playing together and are like minded. I play in the ILCR Primary league and Strategy League because I love teamplay, but Dakin's point is true on pubs. Try to get a team together on public servers and play as a team against another such team. That's called a match.

In the games that you just pop in to get some kills there usualy isn't teamplay... sometimes I like to jump in for a 5-6 rounds when I have a few minutes free from the kids. Alot of people are like that... play one map or so and leave, sometimes 2 rounds then AFK. I don't mind it, but I look at it as a time to showcase individual talents. The teamplay comes in clan matches. Look at clans who have guys in the top 20 in CLQ... they rock the public servers, but get nailed to the ground in matches. Why is that? Teamplay.

Don't accuse me of being against teamplay. Just realize that you DON'T get pickup games where everyone is into the "team" spirit. THAT'S why my individual score matters to me.
 

c+k|nEVeRmOre

~A.K.A. wesley_sniper~
I have not been the person to organize the team, but, I have played plenty of matches on pubs where someone did organize the team and we did win. Just for the record, this has never ever been the case when I have played on a MUF server. The only servers I ever see this happen on is the SOB servers because the people are just all around better at team play and at the very least <i>try</i> to be part of the team. I run into more <i>Rambos</i> on the MUF servers than anywhere else, which is why I only play there when the SOB servers are booked solid.

If I had to guess the reason, it would be that the SOB members keep the peace on their servers and try to help people out instead of joining in the fray of disorganized run and gun me me me tactics like I see on the MUF servers.
 

vedder

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I'm not trying to get people to change their style of play, unless of course that style of play involves blasting your teammate in the back in order to boost your personal score. Are you that vain? Is it that important to define yourself by your score? Do you fail IRL so you must validate yourself by getting a high score in a computer game? Look at yourself and ask these questions. You might be disgusted with the answers you come up with.
EDIT_ this is a reply to wizbiz.
 

The_Fur

Back in black
Nov 2, 2000
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3) the scoreboard, as it provides information, is a way to help you personally work better as a team. Infiltration is a harder game than most. The weapons are harder, and the movement is harder- which is why working as a team is important.

All nice and peachy but it just doesn't work that way. It didn't work in Firearms, It didn't work in CS (they even canceled the Scoreboard back in the early days and people were still going for frags so they could see them at the end of the game and look at their 1337 skillz.
As long as you base rank on kills you can toss any hope of teamwork out the window. Especially with certain "people" (like eddie vedder pointed out) in the community allready and more are to come.

KILLS WILL HAVE TO GO, that is if you care in the slightest bit about teamwork.


The only few good games of CS i';ve ever had were wen CS was still new and most people didn't know about their kills being counted. You'd see people covering eachother. Terrorists guarding hostages, CT's escorting FB-ing rooms for eachtother etc. Ofcourse as soon as they found out they got points for kills and were ranked on that... down the drain it all went.


Scoring should be based on a combination of teamwork and accuracy.
At the end of the game it'll be one team congratulating the other on their good tactics/excellent teamwork/smart moves whatever. Rather then mr 1337W4nK3r spamming his score.
 

Cholo Grande

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May 29, 2001
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Ok now you're criticizing how I run my servers? Just for the record I play on the SOBservers sometimes as well (when MUF2001 is filled), and I don't see what you're talking about. I run and gun and have topped out, score-wise, in 5 minutes a game that had been running for 15 minutes. I'm not THAT good (have my moments of goodness sometimes), but I never see these "team matches". Have you ever played in any INF clan matches?
 

Cholo Grande

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May 29, 2001
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My point is that if there is GREAT teamplay, how does could a mediochre player like myself absolutely rule a team playing together? Get in some clan matches. You don't know what teamplay is.
 

Warren

Infiltration Project Coordinator
Nov 24, 1999
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I guess I can see in some extremely abstract, 3rd dimension way how you could consider that statement from the manual to be individualistic. The core nature of Infiltration is based on teamwork. It's implied. Obviously if you can pick that out of the manual, I need to change it to include working as a team specifically. :rolleyes:

In my opinion, teamwork rarely works on public servers because players don't even bother trying. "It's too hard" so why bother. It's not like you have to take 5 minutes and strategize the whole match- even teamwork in it's simplest form goes along with the Infiltration Philosophy more than individualism. Just pick a guy and follow him around, watch his back- if he appreciates it, he'll watch yours too. If not, he'll probably let you know not to follow him.

We can't force people to work as a team- but the nature of Infiltration is teamwork- no exceptions. I guess people can express they're desire to compete all they want, but we won't take what I feel is a step back. heh, I may be wrong, but that's our goal, so we might as well make it as clear as possible. And others complain about taking the fun away. Well, we find this kind of game play fun. To me, it's thrilling to get on a server with people you don't know and work as a team with them, even if it's as simple as sticking together in pairs. We also can't make a perfect game, but it sure as hell beats being like everyone else.
 

Sup?

GHOST Commander
Apr 1, 2001
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Eddie, take a chill pill. Can anybody have an opinion without being judged by the ole mighty EddieVedder? Quote: "I'd hate to be friends with you if that is your mentality". Did you ever stop to think that maybe they aren't looking for your friendship? If you want total teamwork join a clan and play competitively with other clans in a league but don't critisize and critique others who may have a different opinion. How are you supposed to team up with any individual in a public server anyway? Stop in the middle of everything and type? INF is supposed to be fun and that's the bottom line. When I go into a public server I play the best that I can so that my team will win, however if we do lose...no big deal, we'll try to get them next time. Now if it was a clan league match and we spent numorous hours going over the map developing strategies and we lost, then yes it would hurt a bit because we spent time going over teamwork. There's no way you can have 100% true teamwork on a pub server considering you don't even know most of your teammate's skills, not to mention the lack of communication ie: BattleCom, or Roger Wilco.

Perhaps you can start your own server where a communication device is required to play on it, that way you can have communication with the other players which btw is THE ONLY way to implement teamwork.
 

Sup?

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Apr 1, 2001
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Originally posted by eddievedder
I'm not trying to get people to change their style of play, unless of course that style of play involves blasting your teammate in the back in order to boost your personal score.


Um Eddie, now I see where you are coming from! You must be referring to teammates such as Patrick and Taylor because you obviously don't play online. I'll fill you in on a little something...when you shoot your teammate online you get NEGATIVE points, therefore how can somebody BOOST their score by blasting your teammate in the back?
 

vedder

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Originally posted by Sup?
Eddie, take a chill pill. Can anybody have an opinion without being judged by the ole mighty EddieVedder?
:lol:
I judge by what i see, when someone vehementally states that they would kill one of their own to save their ass, rest assured i will look down upon their ethics. YOU don't have to be liked by me, But I live by a set of morals and ethics and if you Teamkill to increase your pointage than fine, It just means i wont like you. No big deal. And why do i need to take a chill pill for expressing my opinion in a reasonable manner. I have a feeling alot of people on these boards will agree with me. THIS is a community and WE should treat each other with respect.
 

WizBiz

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Apr 28, 2000
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Eddie: I am a huge vain, failure which causes me to put all my effort into a computer game! :rolleyes: Ease up on the personal attacks FF! When did I ever say I kill my own teammates if there is a chance to improve my own score? I do not deny that I go 100% to achieve my goals. I am a competitive person who likes to see stats. Yes, I do enjoy seeing how I compare to others via statistics. I would also use the stats to recruit new teamates as well as scouting opposing teams. I understand that you cant judge anyone on stats alone, but it is a start.

I do not play INF JUST for meeting new friends, however, it is a bonus.
 

vedder

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Originally posted by Sup?



Um Eddie, now I see where you are coming from! You must be referring to teammates such as Patrick and Taylor because you obviously don't play online. I'll fill you in on a little something...when you shoot your teammate online you get NEGATIVE points, therefore how can somebody BOOST their score by blasting your teammate in the back?

LOL i think you can tell my opinion on bots by my SIG. :) I mean sacrificing your friendly's life in order to take out 3 enemies or so. See its basic math you lose points for one TK but make up for it with the other kills.
 
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