Inf needs better ballistics

[Logan6]

Well, look, like I said in an earlier post, the Shoot program is just giving an average result for the info put in. I don't think it is concentrating on any one rifle, mostly just the cartridge. Hollow point will probably be somewhat different than metal jacket. Sure. But, altogether, the results of most bullets from standard rifles of that caliber will probably be about near the same trajectory. What I am saying is that in the game, the ballistics seem to shoot MUCH flatter.

Now its hard to tell up close, cause like one of you said when the bullet is actually positive in its trajectory its only so by a few inches. Its at 500 meters that things look wrong. The bullet seems to barely drop.

I think the way to tell how things are going is if someone would make a simple hallway map that is accurately measured with a measured target. Then we can pool information on what each of us is getting.

I'd do it but Im a horrible mapper.

 

[Logan6]

Thats because the 500m target in the range isn't actually at 500m, its actually closer, so you get less drop.

Well, no one said it was closer, they just said it was off. Well, I think Gal-z said it all, we need a new measured range. I'd be happy with just that simple hallway I talked about. Maybe I'll try and build it.

 

[salad]

Actually, yes, they did say they were closer. The first person to mention the range distances being wrong said it.

And that the shooting range markers are too short, and as such can't be relied upon?

Now, can you please answer the rest of my questions without dodging or ignoring them? I'm not too terribly hopeful that you will, to be honest, but I'll keep on hoping.

 

[Derelan]

Like why was my pistol, held level, able to hit a target near the center at 500 meters?

Were you aiming above the center? I just tested it, i wasn't able to hit the center of the target at 500m with the PSG-1 unless i aimed about a target's height high. And with the pistol, i got 0 hits. Are you sure you aren't seeing previous target hits, or are you switching targets after each test?

 

[Arethusa]

Logan, I realize that reading is difficult for you. Really, I do. But we believe in you! So please ****ing try your best.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Well if you do be sure you know what scale SS is using because it is not 16 uu to a foot like other mods. I think it is 24 uu to the foot.

 

[Logan6]

Well, I can see trying to be nice is pointless with you guys, obviously you did not read the post where I said I was looking for an average trajectory, like the program gives you. Not perfect.

Well, I built the new shooting range with 1 foot = 16 units. 1 meter averages about 3 feet ( no Im not looking for to the cm perfect here ). 28000 units = around 500 meters. At the end is a 5 foot tall x 2 foot wide square. I thought the mutators I had loaded may be screwing with things so I took them all out before loading the map I had built.

Took five shots at the target at around 500 meters. Not only was there no bullet drop, the shots actually went a little high ( about 6 inches or so ). So, unless Im wrong about the 16 units to a foot, something is definitely amiss.

Is anybody else getting this? ( besides the people who just came to pick a fight ). Im wondering if my copy of the game has gone bad ( though it seems unlikely since everything else is working) or if ballistics are just off.

I'd upload the map, but my FTP is down, and its pretty easy to build.

 

[Logan6]

Well if you do be sure you know what scale SS is using because it is not 16 uu to a foot like other mods. I think it is 24 uu to the foot.

Thanks benmcl. I was wondering about that. Everyone on the posts I can find talks about 16 units to a foot. I'll try to rebuild the map with 24 units to a foot and post the results.

Though I did notice that when I took off all the mutators, the 6x scope on the PSG-1 seemed to lose about a 1/3 of its magnification. Can't figure that one out.

 

[Logan6]

Were you aiming above the center? I just tested it, i wasn't able to hit the center of the target at 500m with the PSG-1 unless i aimed about a target's height high. And with the pistol, i got 0 hits. Are you sure you aren't seeing previous target hits, or are you switching targets after each test?

OK, no I was aiming for the center of the target with the PSG-1. On the new map I built, the same thing happened. The pistol was hitting the target when I had BS4 on, when I took it off, the pistol hit very near and got one shot on to the target. That was knocking a full clip off at it, slowly to keep steady aim. I was switching targets after I was through so no they weren't previous hits.

Hmm, maybe it is my system. Im using windows 98, I'll try this out on windows XP.

 

[Derelan]

Well, I can see trying to be nice is pointless with you guys...

(besides the people who just came to pick a fight ).

You don't make much of an effort to sound like you didn't just come to pick a fight.

 

[Logan6]

Well, you guys started the attack.

Anyway, I can't use INF on XP cause my ancient video card won't deal with the system. I can't tell where the bullets are hitting on the target. The hits aren't drawn. But it sounds like the ballistics are working on your system if your having to aim high to hit the target. My bullets just seem to go where I point. So I guess its something wrong with my copy of INF. I guess I'll have to try and re-download it. Thanks for the info.

 

[salad]

But Moommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, they started it!

What are your complete system specs? Try with a fresh install of Infiltration 2.9 and no mutators at all. Find a server running the shooting range and try it online or get an admin to change to it for a bit for testing.

I'm happy that you've made a baby step to stop ignoring everything that contradicts what you say, by the way. Even if it is just to acknowledge that it works for us and nothing else. Baby steps, Bob, baby steps.

 

[geogob]

Logan, did you put me on ignore or do you intentionally ignore my post?

Listen, no one disagrees with you on the fact that INF's ballistics are not perfect. You are probably right about this. Where _I_ disagree with you is on two major points: your method of evaluation of the ballistics and your initial statement that "Inf needs better ballistics".

Now, I _suggest_ you to recheck your methods and to explain why inf needs a better ballistics. How and how much those differences between inf's ballistics and real life ballistics affect the simulation itself? Also, I would like to suggest you to keep statistics of all game you played and kill distances.

 

[yurch]

BS4 has an adjustable bullet speed. If your pistol rounds are hitting level at 500 meters you must have the speed turned waaaay up.
The default that BS4 has (60%) drops more, not less.

(PS, guess where I got much of my ballistic info when I converted the ballistic numbers for inf's system, it's a surprise!)

 

[geogob]

Logan! I saved you the trouble... I just went over 80 screenshots of inf games end (of DTAS, TDM, EAS and SPEC).

Out of 87 games recorded, a total of 1876 kills have been 
registered (21.56 kills per game)

|[b]Range[/b]    [b]Kills[/b]      [b]Kills per game[/b]      [b]% of total kills[/b] |
----------------------------------------------------------|
| [b]10m[/b]      457        5.252874           24.360341        |
| [b]50m[/b]     1204       13.839080           64.179104        |
|[b]100m[/b]      166        1.908045            8.848614        |
|[b]100m+[/b]      49        0.563218            2.611940        |

The 49 [b]100+[/b] kills have been registered on 6 unique maps. 
Of those, 33 were registered on 2 unique maps, which makes 67.35% 
of the [b]100+[/b] kills. It makes 1.76% of the total kills registered.

Now please, explain to me again why Infiltration need better ballistics so badly?

 

[gal-z]

You get kills at short ranges only simply because mappers don't make open ground maps, which make you take weapons that can't handle such ranges. In those big maps, you do need realistic ballistics, so these maps won't suck that bad. And, of course, make good open-ground maps.

 

[keihaswarrior]

Wow, a lot of bs is flying around in this thread.

First, let me clear one thing up: The distances in the shooting range ARE correct. I don't know why crowze said that. INF uses 48 UU = 1 meter. The shooting range uses that scale. Also, using that scale the INF soldier is about 5'9" if he stood up straight.

You all should be a lot more polite to Logon. He hasn't really insulted you at all.

Oh, and Logon, post some real evidence instead of your subjective game experience. You should calculate the proper trajectory for the bullet, rifle, barrel etc. Then test in on the INF shooting range with no muties and keep in mind what the INF weapons are zeroed at.... I look forward to seeing your screen shots.

 

[Nukeproof]

You all should be a lot more polite to Logon. He hasn't really insulted you at all.

I second that. Some just seem to dig up his posts, just to rip it apart. Not agreeing with his opinion or his claims is one thing, but doing a witchhunt where he brings up valid aspects presented in a decent manner is just ... whatever.

Take it easy guys

 

[Logan6]

Thanks Gal, Keihas, Nuke. Im not looking for a fight with anyone. Some people just seem to want to attack. Just wanted to question the ballistics because they seem waayyyyy off on my game. Im not looking at it being perfect, its just nowhere near an average curve for the bullet drop. Im beginning to suspect its my copy of the game. So I've deleted INF and am going to redownload it and see what happens. I can't give screenshots right now because my FTP server with earthlink seems to be down. Lets just say that the bullets seem to have little if no drop. Shot a target on the range I made last night which was measured to 500 meters with 16 units = 1 foot. The bullets not only had no drop this time but went high by about a foot.

One strange thing I did notice is that when I got rid of all the mutators, the PSG's scope seemed to lose magnification by 1/3 or so.

@Yurch : I took BS4 off and seems to do the same thing. Then I took all the mutators off and same thing. So now I'll try a fresh download, @56k (ugh).
What exactly does the bullet speed in your .ini do? I know you have it set at 60%, so Im guessing 100% is normal speed in INF. Yeah, I see you got your stats from Remington, so now I really think something is wrong with my copy because the balistics Im seeing in game are nowhere near those in the Shoot graphs.

@Keihaswarrior : Your saying that the range isn't off, so could you tell me what the units per foot are in game? As I was telling Yurch, I've tried it on the range with vanilla inf. Same thing. Nowhere near average ballistics for a .308 round or a .45. The Remington Shoot program lets you put in your zero for the .308. I set it at 300 meters and target at 500 meters. I don't have the info for a .45, but I own one IRL so I pretty much know how it should shoot. No way should I be able to hit a target at 500 meters shooting level. I'll have to dig for some trajectory graphs for it.

@Anyone else : Is anybody else getting strange balistics where the bullets seem to hardly drop?

 

[Psychomorph]

I shoot with my MicroUzi and Pistols at huge distances and always hit.