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NotBillMurray

It's Suntory Time!
Mar 11, 2001
2,294
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No, this is how it should have turned out. Someone says song lyrics. Someone else says, cut that out - it's not appropriate. Person says - Oh, no problem. I'll quit.

Instead, we have the person continuing his behavior with the excuse that he's just reciting a song.

I don't see why that's so hard to do.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
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Just one question : were those people on the opposing teams ?
If they were the reason for this 'person' to continue to act like that is simple :
you have shown that it offends you
=> you won't react a bit more aggressive/different/less levelheaded and hopefully make some mistakes ...

Sounds to me like he succeeded ...
//---
Maybe a 'mute person'-command is easier if you are that easily offended by someone on the internet.
Or you should quit playing on public servers ...

"Sticks & stones may break bones, but words don't hurt ..." (or whatever that saying is) sounds appropiate here.
 

Tiran Kenja

CO of Creepers
Feb 26, 2001
157
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www.creepers.org
Originally posted by BAT[PBC]


Stay in your house if you dont like the lynch mob outside? Brilliant!!!

Heh. Sorry. But yes. I would NOT walk into a lynch mob. Would you?

But that's not what he says. He is saying: If you don't like what he is saying. Ignore him.

If he IS a racist and you make a big deal about it. It's only going to make it worse - and his hate bigger. If you ignore it he will most likely stop. You can't solve the fundamental problem of humans being afrait of what is diffrent by yelling at eveyone showing signs of it. Its a problem we all need to solve both on a global level and on a personal level.

Originally posted by Monk_Zero


No, this is how it should have turned out. Someone says song lyrics. Someone else says, cut that out - it's not appropriate. Person says - Oh, no problem. I'll quit.

Instead, we have the person continuing his behavior with the excuse that he's just reciting a song.

I don't see why that's so hard to do.

So true. Unfourtnatly not all members of the community is mature enough to understand that. So the role of us - I dare say - who are. Is to try to educate the ones that are not.
 

SephirothSK

INF_Player
Nov 25, 2001
3
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38
Nashville TN
www.savagekillers.com
If I am correct mostly white people play this game? I have not met one person that plays INF that is black.I would feel that any black person out there that plays INF should get involved due to the fact that a black persons word in this situation would be more powerful than 50 posts on this. And Obviously HOPS i white and so am I. I used to not understand what the word nigga ment in any way shape or form. It confused me a lot.......... Then I started dating a black girl from school. I started hanging out with her friends and realized that nigga is used as a term for like whats up my brutha. What Black people have done is they have turned ****** into a positive comment by somewhat stopping how whites and other people have used it in the past.

Definition of ******= (adj.) 1.to act niggerly or be niggerly
2.To act Ignorantly to one another


Definition of Ignorant=(adj.) to have a lack of knowledge:be un-useful


How these Intertwine is so........ Back in the days of slavery White people called blacks niggers due to the fact that black people had no education.Thereof proving ****** is not necessarily a racial slur from its origin. If you disagree with me on this then look at a really old dictionary and find the definition of ****** and guaranteed it will have that definition. If you feel like you disagree with me and feel like you need to ask me something then e-mail me at >soulja45@home.com and i will talk privately.

Soulja

Say this is from Soulja and post it please Thanks A lot seph i appreciate it
 

NotBillMurray

It's Suntory Time!
Mar 11, 2001
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There's quite a few black INF'ers, at least on the forums.

I think we're clouding the issue here. Someone said something on the chat channel. Someone else was offended and asked (told?) them to quit it. They didn't. And it looks like they were trying to justify their continued usage of it. Doesn't matter if it was racial slurs or pointless cursing.

Because he was in a clan, an avenue was available to make him liable for his actions. If he wasn't then this would just have to slide unless an admin was available. Because he's in a clan, he's damaging the perception of his clan as well as his own reputation.

On a flip side, we have many INF members who are from Germany. Should we start calling them racial slurs because we saw it on Band of Brothers? It's just not appropriate in this environment and should have been stopped as soon as it was requested.

There is no reason for this game community to be dragged down to the level of your average CS server.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
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Originally posted by Monk_Zero
There's quite a few black INF'ers, at least on the forums.
but since this is the internet we can't *see* if anyone claiming to be of one 'skincolor' (or whatever could act as the target of an insult) is telling the truth ...
Anyone calling anyone else a 'nigga'/kraut(?)/Mof/gay or whatever is just guessing, unless they know you personally or you have publicly stated you were of said race/country/whatever.

By responding to such an insult, you simply make it obvious to that person that he managed to offend you. Unfortunately there are 'people' out there who get off on offending as many people as they possibly can, because it could give them an advantage in the game.

People also seem to forget that this person would have to be either a 'ghost' unless he wishes to be a sitting duck (you can't chat & walk & shoot at the same time ...)

I think we're clouding the issue here. Someone said something on the chat channel. Someone else was offended and asked (told?) them to quit it. They didn't. And it looks like they were trying to justify their continued usage of it. Doesn't matter if it was racial slurs or pointless cursing.

Because he was in a clan, an avenue was available to make him liable for his actions. If he wasn't then this would just have to slide unless an admin was available. Because he's in a clan, he's damaging the perception of his clan as well as his own reputation.
amen.
 

BAT[PBC]

CW2 of PBC
Jun 5, 2001
48
0
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Aurora CO
thepbclan.com
After talking with Kal he would like me to post this for him .... he seems to be having trouble with the forums.
With Regards to "the incident"...
« on: 11/26/01 at 03:38:06 » | Reply with quote | Modify

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright...here goes.
first of all, i'm posting this in here because i cannot for some reason post in the INF forums...i'm not exactly sure what the deal was. i mean i did register and everything, and did everything it said, but um, it kept telling me that i needed to register. strange!? i'm not sure. but whatever. anyways...

With regards to "the incident"...a couple of days ago, BAT[PBC] ICQ'd me and informed me of the situation and the thread. (which i appreciate btw)

(http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?s=797ac08f3adc72b5 12bcb6ff3017cc23&threadid=93590.)

but anyways, i'm aware of the anger that this situation has caused...and do not look lightly when the name and honor of [PDX] is put in jeopardy. i acknowledge the simple fact that [PDX]Hops was outta line that day, and it was COMPLETELY inappropriate to behave that way online, especially on a public server. i think that, that kinna' behavior is TOTALLY unacceptable, and will not stand for it (nor will i lay down and take it in the colon either).
basically what i'm saying, is that Hops was wrong in his behavior, and HE IS SORRY. he informed me personally, that it would not be a problem in the future...(or at least that's what i assumed) i cannot say how much this has upset me (the whole [PDX] represented in a negative fashion). back when Cameron (aka Nickoloff) started [PDX], it was to be able to have a group of friends get together and LAN, and be able to have a common bond of friendship in the form of a clan. and, there was a common knowledge that when we represented the clan name, be wouldn't be anything but respectful and have a good sportsman like kind of conduct. this code was broken, and i apologize to the INF community for it. and so does Hops. Because Disrespecting other players is NOT...i repeat, NOT what we are about! and i hope that the name of [PDX] is not tarnished because of this. well i guess that that's all for rite now...Thank You for Being Forgiving...(at least i hope)

-Kal

This can be found on the PDX forums aswell

http://pdx.mentalpikture.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1006760286

By the way there are no hard feeling between PBC and PDX, and we consider the matter closed.
 

NotBillMurray

It's Suntory Time!
Mar 11, 2001
2,294
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0
Rimmerlister
The point of this whole matter was that he wasn't trying to offend anyone. He wasn't trying to get under anyones skin. The point is that he didn't cease the offensive behavior when asked, instead trying to justify it. Anyone in the corporate environment can tell you that is the last thing you want to do when someone feels offended or harassed. You just stop when asked. And it works like a charm.

Now its clear that he recognizes the issue and is sorry. There really doesn't need to be any repercussions about this. I'm just glad we can fight each other in an environment where there is a fair amount of respect for the other players. That's a rare thing, and worth preserving.

It's cool, problem solved (in my eyes)
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
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my comment wasn't directed at Hops, it was a 'generic' comment about how (I would) deal with someone like that on a server.
As Hops's apology shows simply informing the clan was more effective than all that talking in-game.
 

Other Dave

New Member
Oct 4, 2001
82
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Visit site
Originally posted by Monk_Zero
WTF. Way to jump in with more racism, OD. Are you purposefully trying to piss people off?

Yes. I'm deliberately trying to rile the people who think we should turn the other cheek to racism. Thanks for noticing!

If they don't like it maybe they shouldn't read the fora. (Get the point?)

Other Dave
 

Mad_Rusher

New Member
Nov 21, 2001
30
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UK, Birmingham
www.clanse.org
Originally posted by SephirothSK
If I am correct mostly white people play this game? I have not met one person that plays INF that is black.I would feel that any black person out there that plays INF should get involved due to the fact that a black persons word in this situation would be more powerful than 50 posts on this.

Im Black, and reading this thread has made me fvckin furious, i hate the "N" word, nobody, but nobody should use that word ( the only time its accepted is when close friend talk to/at eachother ) but even then im still disguested.

my reason for downloading Inf, among other things was because it actually had "Black" skins, which i find awesome Because all the times ive been playing games ive had to have a white character skin, and no offence, but i really dont enjoy that ( reason why i dont play tac-ops much since i found this mod )

but its also an EXCELLENT game with a Great Community.. ( i thought ) oh well, i guess when i enter servers, i'll take a pinch of salt with me.

oh yeah, heres my website and my pic ( the old one is my dad :D )
http://www.soundtek.co.uk
http://www.soundtek.co.uk/pics/me_n_dad.jpg

if you dont belive its my pic.. i dont care, think what you want, but if i ever see this shít talking Hopps in a server, im joining his team and TK'ing the crap outta him, till he leaves ( or i get kicked ) whichever happens first.
 

Tiran Kenja

CO of Creepers
Feb 26, 2001
157
0
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46
www.creepers.org
Originally posted by Mad_Rusher

but its also an EXCELLENT game with a Great Community.. ( i thought ) oh well, i guess when i enter servers, i'll take a pinch of salt with me.

You should always be ready for stupid remarks and intollerant people when you interact with a large group you haven't picked yourself. Anyone can download this game.

But on the other hand I think pretty much everyone who have posted to this thread have talked against what this Hops guy did. Myself included - even if not all seemed read my words for what they meant when replying.

Originally posted by Mad_Rusher

if you dont belive its my pic.. i dont care, think what you want, but if i ever see this shít talking Hopps in a server, im joining his team and TK'ing the crap outta him, till he leaves ( or i get kicked ) whichever happens first.

Oh great. That's REALLY going to teach him a lession (well it is. Just not the one you might hope).
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
8,408
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// Mad_Rusher :
TK'ing is bad mmm'kay !
There is and never will be a good reason for a TK.
Besides : default-setting for servers is to kick you after 3 TK's ...

That's enough to show whoever insulted you that he has a real easy way to get rid of you : just use the N-word (or anything else you find offensive) and you'll be gone in 3 rounds ...
 

Ebonite DPW

The Fifth General and [PDX] convert
Jan 14, 2001
105
0
0
Portland. OR
www.darktorrent.com
A Dissertation on the Importance of Honor to PDX

I would like to comment on this topic if I may, if only to support Kalsun in his assessment. I am a former [PDX] member, having gone under the name and tag of [PDX]Ebonite. Please excuse my forum name on the left, as I signed on to the forums before I joined [PDX].

My roommate Bretai and I, both of [DPW] (powerful back in the days of SiN CTF), had discovered Infiltration in November of 2000, and were looking to form or join a clan so we could get involved with the up-and-coming ILCR. The thing was, we both wanted to be involved with a clan that meant something to us personally. We had formed [DPW] together with some friends from work when we all worked for the Post Office in Portland, Oregon (DPW stands for Disgruntled Postal Workers). Meetings were paid for by the USPS and practice was called by saying, "See you online after work." [DPW] not only provided us with a badge of recognition, but also described who we were, in this case, exactly.

[PDX] was started in April of 2001 by Nickoloff, along with his brother, DJ-Darth_Fader, and his friend, Santos. Bretai ran into Nickoloff online and recognized the tag (PDX is the international aircode for Portland International Airport. Being that the Post Office sends a lot of cargo by air, PDX tags are on most of the incoming mail we process. If you remember the last time you flew, there were sticky tags on your luggage with a three letter code and a barcode, both indicating your destination. Same tags on our mail.). Bretai proceeded to question Nickoloff about his location. Nickoloff confirmed that he and everyone else then in [PDX] lived in Portland, Oregon. Bretai then proposed that he and myself join up with Nickoloff. Nickoloff okayed the deal, with the one stipulation that we do not trash talk online or otherwise embarrass or dishonor the [PDX] tag.

As Nickoloff was keen on the idea of frequent LAN parties and joining the ILCR, we started actively recruiting with two requirements, live in the Greater Portland Metropolitan Area, and have a good or better attitude. We didn't care about skill, as the LAN parties would allow for improvement, attitude and courtesy were what mattered. Pepster, PhyreDance, and Black_Thought quickly joined up, and with their added support, plus the later additions of Jarhead and Kalsun, we joined the ILCR Primary League, already underway.

The regular LAN parties, held every two weeks, not only improved the individual and team skills of the clan, but it also built a comraderie (sp?) among the members, such that we became more than clan members, we became friends. One member loaned another member his back-up computer for two weeks while the other's computer was in the shop, for free. Rides were provided to and from the LAN parties, at 20 miles one way. One member, an employee of the cable company, gave free tech support to all members with cable internet. To us early members, the clan meant more than any one person.

While we only played the last four weeks of the regular season, and lost all four of those matches, we walked away from that first season with the league High Honor Award, a recognition of sportsmanship, based on the sportsmanship ratings from such clans as -GAT-, GHOST, [QSF], and the (then) newly organized North American INF 2.8x division of (SIXPACK). We saw it as an affirmation of our moral code of conduct and were proud of our accomplishment.

The second ILCR Primary League season was delayed until the release of 2.86, and in that time, two of our key members left, our leader, Nickoloff, for whom 2.86 provided unprecedented and unplayable lag, and our webmaster, PhyreDance, who defected (transferred) to $M.Inc.$ in order to maintain (save) a real-life friendship. I basically assumed all defunct duties, in addition to my own as ILCR Representative and ILCR Match Contact, and took [PDX] into the second ILCR Primary League season. We played the preseason and the first official week of the season, whereupon my method of handling things was called into question by a new recruit. The ensuing debate prompted my (and his) resignation.

The resulting loss of players and cumulative loss of "officer" positions led to the withdrawal of [PDX] from the ILCR Primary League, but not before an offer to join the Strategy League was issued to [PDX], based solely on the merit of having earned the High Honor Award, and issed by none other than the co-admin of the Strategy League, Damage.

[PDX] is now in a reconstruction phase, with Kalsun as Leader and Recruiter. Kalsun is the last remaining "Active" member of the "old crew" (time constraints have forced the remaining old-timers to put INF on hold), and respects the commitments to honor and respect that [PDX] started with. Based on Kalsun's response to this incident, I presume Kalsun honestly believes Hops will not repeat this preformance, or if he does, Hops will be permanently removed from the ranks of PDX.

Regards,
Ebonite
Former [PDX] ILCR Representative
Former [PDX] ILCR Match Contact

For verification of events posted here, feel free to visit the [PDX] page at http://www.darktorrent.com/PDX/indexb.html and check the "About Us", "History", and "ILCR" links, as well as the ILCR site at http://www.ilcr.net/ and check the "Champions" page.
 
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BigBlue_[XpK]

New Member
May 29, 2001
25
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I just have a few things to add.

On racism: When someone starts to spew racist comments they need to be told to shut their mouth. The fact that the person lacks the empathy to comprehend that they may be offending someone is a very poor excuse. While education is the eventual means to stamp out racism we have to face the fact that some people are sooo ignorant and set in their ways that education will fail. In these cases I will settle for socially ostracizing racists to a point that they will only be able to whisper their little comments in the shadows or in the ever decreasing areas where they feel that they are safe to make these comments. Unfortunately racists usually pass down their ideas to their offspring but we can only hope that the chain will be broken in the next generation. This can only be accomplished if as a society we our very outspoken against any such person who voices these ideas.

PDX should not be judged by one bad apple because as a whole they are very honorable and respectful gamers. A clan or a group in general should not be judged based on one individual which happens too often in this community.

As for settling the problem with Hops privately. Does anyone wonder why he is no longer in GD? They were told of some of his other behavior and guess what, he wasn't in GD a couple days later. I agree with Bat in posting this here 100% due to Hop's previous conduct combined with how I personally deal with ignorant and hateful speech. The only downside I see to this is PDX's name being soiled which I why I URGE EVERYONE not to judge PDX on this.