Bugs

[BB_Izgard]

Originally posted by Smiley SK

So thanks, I think I'll leave this place where candid open discussion seems to be impossible. I do not have need for it, and I do not feel like continuing the pissiness that flows in here any more.

I really love when people think they can force a change by threatening to go elsewhere. If you gotta go, go. Happy Halloween, whiner! If you had tried to make your point in a more polite manner, you wouldn't have been stomped. Now you just sounded like a whining biatch, and noone likes that.

Behind you all the way, DB!

 

[deck]

HEY CHILL OUT

Cmon guys lets no escallate this. I saw alot of positive feedback here, lets keep it going.

Now I see we are faced with a serious delimia if it means performance hit or clipping. These are two show stoppers. What are other alternatives. Lets get out side the box. I love the idea, of a standard hight for windows that GPK put up. Maybe thats what we need, is a defacto work around from the mappers,a nd not the engine. If the engine cant do it, well the engine cant do it. Unless EPIC is going to FIX it, I dont see why we need to try. So what are the alternatives. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO POST ABOUT. So if your reading and u want some action go to another forum to flame, lets get creative with ideas, that the team can look at and say hey THATS A GREAT IDEA.
I for one like the idea of designing a map that has certain specs involved to allow a player not to be invisable. What is the lowest height a window can be without clipping a player. ANd not looking like a piece of crap map.

Im also very intrested in offering my services as a tester. I have over 12 years of system experience, and worked as a developer for Raytheon, so I wouldnt say that Im just looking for recognition. I just want to see this work better. If it means not devolging info I held a very high clearance while working with the US Govt, and BTW Im doing contract work for NASA, my recognition comes from feeding my family. Hope that puts this into perspective.

Anyway lets get back on track we were almost there.

 

[GNAT]

I would

I would like someone with more knowledge than I on the specific matters at hand to scroll up and re-read my post concerning prone and leaning. I would like to know if my presumptions are on the correct and if I'm on the right track. Unfortunately as I've stated before when I post a nice message it gets overlooked because of not so nice messages. Well that leaves me hanging... So if any of the beta testers or dev team has time will you please re-read my post and fill me in on where I may be wrong or right concerning the prone bug and invisibility. To move forward we all need to be a little more enlightened. Thanks.

 

[Excelsiore]

I'm not really sure some of you can read.

Window bug=fixed.
Leaning bug=fixed.

Custom models in INF have 0% to do with it.

They worked around the engine and fixed the bugs BUT when trying to fix some other stuff they REBROKE it. This means that all the maps out there are fine and by 2.86 most of you will be hanging your heads in shame. Or will you?

 

[GNAT]

..

I'm not really sure some of you can read.

Window bug=fixed.
Leaning bug=fixed.

Custom models in INF have 0% to do with it.

I'm positive some of you cant read. Ok, leaning bug NOT FIXED, attempted yes, fixed NO. Window bug fixed - yes but at a phenomenal cost to the servers.

2.86 will be a different story, if you read my post earlier you will see all I am trying to do is gain a BETTER understanding of why the prone bug happens. Where your feet are in the wall. Do epics models have their arms/legs/guns in the floor or wall? No custom models however do. I would like to know if I was on the right track - preferably from someone who actually knows, not someone that thinks the leaning bug has been fixed in the new patch.

Hanging my head in shame, no, not at all. I am being inquisitive to gain a better understanding so that I can be more helpful in proposing possible solutions to problems incurred... For that I AM PROUD.

next

 

[CAVERNA2K]

Sniff!!!Sniff!!!Sniff!!!Sniff!!!


May I cry my tears out with you boys?

Wanna say the I love evebody in INF, more even DaddyBone and the Beta Boys, that should make a band with this name.


Enoth of this s.hit;

INF has some bugs, yes. Is anyone perfect? No, BUT:

*God is love. Love is Blind. Steve Wonder is blind. So Steve Wonder is God.

*Someone said I´m nobody. Nobody is perfect. Soon, I´m perfect. But only god is perfect. But Steve Wonder is God. I´M STEVE WONDER!!! Gee!!! Am I Blind????

Just posted this crap to make this tread less the way it´s getting? TOO HEAVY!!! Boys, think better before posting stuff and mainly: talk the right way... Just because u´re behind a Computer U think U can say stuff with the less respect and the less feel possible? OK, for me, seeing this stuff from outside, is easy to criticise u, but I learned to see it in both ways: inside and outside.

Take your time, learn this. U may even get a year lasting relationship with a very nice, inteligent, hot and beauty girl, like Fuct´s Steph.

It´s all about the way to say it.

I´m just summarizing this all this stuff. I I was not welcome in this only, don´t bother say it. I´m off.

 

[Cholo Grande]

Huh? Funny thing: I'm noticing most of the people who think this thread is "stupid" or that it's not right to ask questions about what direction the mod is going are not people that I see playing on-line. MUF, SK, PhD, and SOB (I think that covers the clans that have been posting here) are on-line daily. The reports I get come from daily on-line play. If you guys do play on-line you either play under diferent names or your server sessions are as rare as blue diamonds.

If you want to criticize people for having questions go do a little research first (this pay is real life too). You can look smart and be right. Other will goggle at your amazing wit. Untill you do that though you reveal yourself as a hot headed buffoon.

Also I think people need to quit retaliating against the angry posts. Look in between those posts, DB, and you'll see genuine questions and even some ideas. Ideas that you'll probably just shoot down, but if people didn't care they wouldn't post.

 

[B.PRIMO B.$M.Inc.$]

Hey , how bout that P90!

 

[Cholo Grande]

I like it, Benny. The sights are hard to get used to but does it dump out some death fast or what?

 

[The_Fur]

yeah i like the p90 but it really is no match for the yoghurt grenades.

 

[B.PRIMO B.$M.Inc.$]

*chuckle*, my attempt at some levity.

Played on a German server today on Wharehouse, went to slice an enemy
and the knife would not register any hits. Heres the funny part after
5-6 slices and that great sound effect . The enemy looked at me and jumped
out the window. Must have spooked him .



I cant remember how but the lean needs to be disabled again, NOW.
I can deal with the performance but I can't deal with being terminated by
someone i cant see.

Lets all look to the future and discuss what and can be done, not what
wasn't and should have been.

 

[Excelsiore]

GNAT said

Ok, leaning bug NOT FIXED, attempted yes, fixed NO. Window bug fixed - yes but at a phenomenal cost to the servers.

DB said

Actually, leaning was working, yes... and then we got stuck in the whacky last man timer problem that took up all of our time... and somewhere in there, the leaning broke

"was working" is the same as "was fixed" to me. "Was" being the keyword here.

Nobody ever said fix this, fix that but do not compremise performance if you do.

I'm guessing that UT detects if your in a wall or not depending on whether the hit box is in the wall or not. The model is just there as a more interesting way of representing the box than a cylinder. It doesn't matter to UT if the model is 100 times larger or smaller than the hitbox or the same size as it. If they fix the prone hitbox, prone clipping will probably also disappear. I haven't programmed any UT but this seems reasonable.

 

[GNAT]

correct

that is my take on the prone bug, and it may very well hve lost to do with the leaning a gun through a wall. I didn't refer to it as a hit box but I did make a detailed post of this earlier...

 

[Excelsiore]

If you read the news post about 2.85.5 on the main page it says nothing about leaning at all, much less it being fixed. Since DB said that it is now "broken", even though we all know it works "somewhat" usefully, at least better than in 2.85, this leads me to believe that they did have it "fully functional" and that's why I'm not sure our ideas are on the mark.

 

[Alpha_9]

The proning & leaning hitbox...

I'm not a coder, but as I mapper I'm quite familiar with the nature of the hitbox. Basically, as far as collision/hit detection is concerned, every non-BSP object in the game (i.e. not part of the map's solid geometry) is treated as a cylinder. Every tree mesh, every decoration, every model, has only 2 parameters that determines its hitbox; height & radius.

When a player crouches, or goes prone, the height dimension is reduced to reflect this. However the radius remains unchanged. So what you end up with, especially w/ proning, is a small little cylinder w/ the same radius you have while standing, & the low height you have while flat on the ground. This is what allows a prone player currently to wedge himself into a corner in the way GNAT described earlier. And it explains the unusual difficulty in hitting a prone player. Most of what you see is outside the collision/hit cylinder.

What the INF team is planning to do to address this problem is actually make the cylinder itself "go prone" by literally lying it on its side. Future versions of INF will turn the cylinder 90° when the player goes prone. This will make the collision/hit detection far more realistic for prone targets. And there will be no more of that "wedging into walls & corners" baloney.

As of now, I'm not sure how leaning works as far as the collision/hit cylinder is concerned. But I've heard the intention in future versions is to "lean" the cylinder along w/ the player, so again, you get a realistic reproduction of hit detection in that position. As of now I suspect they keep the cylinder unchanged from a normal stand or crouch, which means you can't actually get hit, even if you can be seen. Of course, if I'm wrong on that an INF team member will promptly correct me...

Anyway, hope this helps answer some questions.

 

[Alpha_9]

Mapping to accomodate the "window bug"

Oh yeah, about the idea of having mappers use a standard window/box/ledge height to address the UT engine invisibility problem. First of all, it would be near-impossible to get every mapper out there to abide by such a standard. Especially mappers like Angelheart, or T. Ahlen, who are in fact true artists (& make the best maps as a result), aren't going to want to restrict themselves to artificial constraints because of some engine limitation.

And even if all mappers did agree to follow a standard, it's impossible to anticipate every instance of a possible ledge you may be unwittingly creating where players may find they can use the invisiblity exploit. Especially on a large, complicated map.

And there's a 3rd problem w/ this idea. It just so happens that the minimum height you need a ledge or box to be for cover while crouching is just above the height at which invisibility occurs. So if a map followed the standard, you'd have to go prone to take cover behind any box or ledge, which would seem odd to me.

Ultimately I think the solution to this realism/performance trade-off is technological development. Better, faster servers, a better engine hopefully not too far in the future, and a little bit of patience in the mean time.

Patience is definitely something the INF community would do well to have more of generally, in my opinion...

 

[deck]

Great Post Alpha

Thanx for shedding some light on the subject. That makes sense of the hit detection cylinder. If there is a way to actually put in a means to alter it great.