bullet penetration and damage numbers...

I don't have an answer for you - but I would like to know this as well. I guess it all depends on how much thought was given to the realism effect in INF. It would only make sense a .50 cal bullet would tear through a sandbag, but it would certainly not result in full damage because the speed of the bullet has been drastically reduced (i.e., less blow-out). I'm not sure if any of this is even considered in INF (Does the bullet just get an object collision and stop there - like it would in a wall?), but would be a great idea for a future release if not...

-SW

P.S. - Maybe you should post this in the 'New Version Suggestions' forum also...

uhh seeing that the robar hits for like 689 damage it doesn't matter, but no it doesn't lessen the damage

It doesn't lessen the damage? Well, I'm no ballistics expert but that doesn't seam realistic to me (maybe this is a short comming of the current version of INF). If the majority of the bullet's kinetic energy is lost in the penetration, then I would expect the wounding ability of that projectile to be significantly lessened.

Originally posted by rgreene
It doesn't lessen the damage? Well, I'm no ballistics expert but that doesn't seam realistic to me (maybe this is a short comming of the current version of INF). If the majority of the bullet's kinetic energy is lost in the penetration, then I would expect the wounding ability of that projectile to be significantly lessened.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I think we all agree on that, but the question is wether the current version, 2.87, or a future release will even consider this fact.

-SW

eh.... if a bullet penetrates you ANYWHERE no matter how slow it was going... its still airborn and it will penetrate and render you uselss

dont think of it as "damage" or "life"

sure a soldier could fight a little longer if he leg is shot maybe... but he wont do anywhere... nor will he be able to aim as accuratly do to the loss of concentration to pain


if it exits the object it went through... and you dont have a vest on ... then youll die no matter how slow if its still airborn

Originally posted by bastardb
.... sure a soldier could fight a little longer if he leg is shot maybe... but he wont do anywhere... nor will he be able to aim as accuratly do to the loss of concentration to pain.

Click to expand...

Maybe this could be another "realism" factor to implement. Impaired aim and movement when wounded...

Originally posted by bastardb
...if it exits the object it went through... and you dont have a vest on ... then youll die no matter how slow if its still airborn

Click to expand...

I certainly don't agree with that statement however. I'm no ballistics expert either, but it depends where on your body the bullet strikes! A full force bullet to your foot isn't going to kill you just as a slowed bullet to a limb or possibly torso might not either.

How can you say as long as it is airborn you will die?? If a bullet strikes my chest full force I have a giant hole in the front and half my back is blown out. But if it comes through a pile of sandbags or a thick wooden door it might only barely penetrate or lodge internally. Even this scenario is potentially fatal, but your chances of survival are much greater - not just *BOOM*, you're dead like in the first scenario.

Anyway, that's my $0.02
-SW

Originally posted by bastardb
if it exits the object it went through... and you dont have a vest on ... then youll die no matter how slow if its still airborn

Click to expand...

That depends on the speed/energy it has left after exiting the objekt.

[edit]
spelling and... instaposted

Just to be a troll:
I bet if I threw a bullet at you, and hit you, you wouldn't die. Yet, it's airborn...

heh

Nice drawing Hadmar....lol...gets the point across though

Im quite familiar with inf's system, Ive studied it and modified some of it with RA.

Yes, bullets can penetrate objects. I can get you a list of comparative penetration values, but I gotta scrape it all together. It penetrates through objects based opon thier thickness, and does pay no attention to the "material".

No, bullets do not do less damage after going through an object.
But, a slower shot doesn't nessesarily mean it should hurt less - in some cases, its the opposite. This is ridculously simplified, but imagine a bullet going through a person cleanly, then another bullet that just hit(and passed through) another object. It could be wobbling and 'turning' now, and possibly even be fragmented, and expanded due to heat. A clean hole, that is not, and it may possibly be a more fatal wound...
Of course, something like that would be more likely to be stopped by body armor (In real life), but thats quite a sophisticated subject.

What yurch said
But i know from experience that bullets in inf can still kill after traveling through objects. Once on Manorfarm i riddled a door full of bullets and lo and behold on the otherside lay a pile of dead bodies. Coincidence? I think not

Where's Tiffy? His word on wound ballistics would be greatly appreciated.
As for faster bullets hurting more, I've always looked at it as the difference between someone using a sharp axe to take off your head compared to a dull one.

ok by "die" i meant being rendered useless to battle... thus being removed by a medic etc

if more then 3/4 of the bullet enters your body, im pretty sure youd be classified out of action

since if it had enough force to penetrate whatever your clothing.. and whatever then it will penetrate your skin causing a yankload of pain... you would not be staying in the fight


that picture you drawn is almost impossible...
i understand what you meant... it will not have the same velocity exiting as it did entering yes... but if it doesnt stop inside then its about 1 in a million chance it will come out with low enough velocity to just arch out at such a sudden drop like that

the game only needs to make the alteration of bullets being effected nt only by thickness... but my substance... there should be no "loss of amount of damage"
also maybe an altered trajectory slightly from the exit.. possibly more downward...
but no less damage still (unless of course it happens to hit there leg rather then there body which i think inf distinguishes right?)

the game already simluates it well enough mostly by thickness... if its too thick it doesnt go through at all... which in some cases it would but be slowed down alot
or if its relatively thin... then it should go through with minimul velocity loss

In INF if a bullet penetrates cover it is as if there was nothing there at all, so the damage done to you is the same. Yurch is the expert on this side of things really.

In real life lots of things happen. The speed of the bullet has nothing to do with the damage it will do to you, it mearly makes it easier to hit you due to the flatter trajectory the bullet flies from the muzzle to you.

The amount of damage that you take, the wound severity, is dependant on how much energy the bullet can transfer to you. Most modern military rounds are acctually very bad at transferring energy and will over-penetrate the target (thats you) only passing some of its energy to you.

How much this effects you is really dependant on several factors. Where it hits you, a head wound is more likely to incapacitate you than being shot in the foot or hand. (But you can, and people have, died from being shot in the foot.) It also depends on how 'hyped up' you are on adrenaline. People have been shot several times and kept going, or not even realised it, whilst others have been rendered incapacitate form a small scratch.

When firearms are designed the excepted amount of energy transfer that will incapacitate someone is 80J. There is approximately 15% of your body that when hit will always result in an incapacitating wound from this energy transfer (head and upper neck). There is a 30% area that will probably result in an incapacitating wound (I can't remember the % chance. This is the upper central torso and chest), and finally the rest of the body, 55% (arms, legs, edge of torso and other bits and pieces) that has about a 50% chance of incapacitating.

Weapons designed for the British Army have to have a 99% chance of incapacitating a person at 100m within 1 second. This means they have to be designed so that they can hit the head at this range. This goes down to a 95% chance at 300m withint 5 seconds, which basically means you must be able to hit the head or chest area of your target possible multiple times.

Of coarse soldiers can't shoot this well, so your actual chances of surviving a firefight at 300m is actally quite high, so long as you don't do anything stupid.

As a foot note I like to point out the by incapacitation all that is ment is that the person stops fighting an is rendered ineffective. This may be through killing him, but is more likely to be through wounding or even just plain scaring the person so they can no longer operate.

If you want to know more, search for it. I've covered this topic in several posts now

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that a lot of the things suggested here are beyond the practical capabilities of the UT engine. Furthermore, some of the things people would like to see implemented, while definitely realistic and ground-breaking, would be of little to no use when you're playing. Case in point: ballistics.

I had been doing ballistic tables for every projectile using specific ballistic coefficients, velocities, and zero ranges using a ballistic calculator. The result was a fairly accurate representation of the flight path of every bullet. This was VERY time consuming and quite frankly, I didn't know if the information would be of any use since I had no idea how UT handled ballistics. Through eventual discussion with Warren and Beppo we concluded that such a complex ballistic system was far too much work with very little benefit. No one really, except programmers, would notice a difference, and being able to claim a "super-accurate ballistics system" took a back seat to more pressing matters.

That said, the Unreal 2 engine up and coming with it's much-improved physics system will probably provide for simpler implementation of things like this. In the meantime, you'll have to be happy with what we've given you so far. We could spend a few more weeks fine-tuning ballistics and implementing a wounding system, then working out the bugs and modifying it from the complaints invariably spewed forth by forum nitpickers, but we didn't think the community would like that.

Mmmmm... sounds like good news to me Gryphon.

har har! n1 gryph

i agree- i also want to see bullet holes appear on the models. thats realistic (and also textures, such as walls and such, and if you say there are bulletholes on walls etc. i dont ever see them)