Sarah Palin's Email Hacked

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hal

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I understand that we've been told this by his surrogates and campaign operatives; they would have us believe that the reason he is completely ignorant with regard to computers is because of injury/disability ... suffered while patriotically defending American freedom and enduring excruciating torture at the hands of the Communist devils. (In case anyone hasn't heard.)

Do you honestly doubt that someone with the kind of injuries he has suffered might be less inclined to use devices that, in general, require use of those very limbs? Or should he be so fascinated by THE INTERNET that he utilize some sort of breathing tube apparatus to navigate his way around WINDOZE?

Fine and good. Now, assuming they wish to convince reasonably intelligent people that this is true, we must demand more detail as to what exactly physically prevents him from operating a keyboard, mouse, or any input device at his disposal. All the while, people far more disabled than McCain seem to get on just fine, all things considered, or at least certainly more than nothing.

What kind of proof is he going to offer you for being uncomfortable using a keyboard? A doctor's note?

Until that detail is provided, the claim of disability remains unsubstantiated, and in all truthfulness, amounts to no more than a slippery rebuttal that shamelessly exploits guilt in an attempt to preemptively shake off all criticism of McCain's apparent technophobia, and yet another example of this war-hero "trump card" being clumsily swung about like a blunt weapon. You yourself did it as well as anyone, fwiw, but ... come on, surely we all can do better.

Senate hearings? TERROR THREAT RED?? If I never touched a computer in my life, I rather doubt it would be less rich. I know people don't realize it anymore, but there are these archaic things called books. I obviously use the computer a lot, but I'm fairly certain that I'd still understand its importance.

I can appreciate and understand the importance of a lot of things that I've never done. Can't you?

Offhanded mockery of McCain's computer illiteracy reaches the point of being "hateful"? That's a bit overly defensive, don't you think? Or, would you actually use the same description in the other direction as well—like, oh I don't know, say, to curb the nonsense about Obama wishing to teach "comprehensive sex ed" to kindergartners?

It's all stupid.
 

Poker

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Apr 17, 2006
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Do you honestly doubt that someone with the kind of injuries he has suffered might be less inclined to use devices that, in general, require use of those very limbs? Or should he be so fascinated by THE INTERNET that he utilize some sort of breathing tube apparatus to navigate his way around WINDOZE?
"Less inclined" understates his apparent aversion; "breathing tube" rather overstates his disability. And I think that neatly illustrates the problem I have here: the degree of exaggeration to which his supporters have resorted in defending this criticism.

What kind of proof is he going to offer you for being uncomfortable using a keyboard? A doctor's note?
At least something more than what has essentially been, "War hero! Shame on you, game over." So far the only definitive statement we've heard—yes, we're delving into the technical here, heaven forbid—is that he can't raise his arms above his shoulders or for prolonged periods of time. Unless the campaign has been guilty of understating McCain's injuries, I'm sorry, but that raises some unanswered questions. Repetitive stress? Fair enough. "Limited" use? Fair enough. The implication of complete disability and justifiably knowing "nothing"? I think it's fair and proper for us all to raise an eyebrow there.

Senate hearings? TERROR THREAT RED?? If I never touched a computer in my life, I rather doubt it would be less rich.... I obviously use the computer a lot, but I'm fairly certain that I'd still understand its importance.... I can appreciate and understand the importance of a lot of things that I've never done. Can't you?
It quite depends on one's outlook, of course, but, respectfully, I would disagree. Certainly we can appreciate things we've never experienced, but only to an extent, and never completely.

If McCain himself had any significant experience personally using any of this techno-stuff, I'd be more inclined to believe that an administration of his can be expected to themselves fully appreciate the impact of computers, internet technology, broadband penetration, etc., and endorse and execute policies that truly push those things forward and put America back into a position of leadership in this regard. That definitely is something that's important to me, and I'm sure a lot of people here share that view as well.
 

hal

Dictator
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It's important to you that the President of the United States uses a computer?

By that logic:

What about running a business? Is running a business important? How about being in the military? Surely being the Commander in Chief should have military experience to lead the military. What about being an executive? Working in the Executive branch of the government must surely provide one with insight into leading it.

Which one of the presidential candidates has all of those experiences? Right. None of them.

Requiring "proof" that his injuries have disinclined him from using a keyboard seems a bit much. It strikes me as a rather sorry attempt at making him look old and stupid and it seems as if it's playing to at least some of you.
 

Poker

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Apr 17, 2006
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http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_mccain_unable_to_use_a_computer.html


Wow, well I figured someone with a disability like that just might get a pass from ridicule, but I guess not. Has he actually said he doesn't want to learn or won't use one?

By not using a common device, does that somehow mean he doesn't understand the value of computing in the modern day? What causes 'legitimate concern'? I'm not getting it.
If he is improving, then he deserves credit, if not necessarily a pass—better late than never. I would rather have been hearing this in response to the criticisms, though. Consider how much nobler it would be to counter the "McCain's a techno-idiot" charges with, "John McCain appreciates the impact and importance of computers and internet technology, and is laboriously making continuous efforts to educate himself further in that regard." Instead of that, the overwhelming response has been, "War hero injuries! He doesn't have to learn. Pwnt." Why?
 

hal

Dictator
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Didn't McCain divorce his first wife because she got crippled?

She was crippled by a car accident while he was in prison. He divorced his wife six years after returning to the U.S., though I'm unaware of any statement as to why he divorced her other than that their marriage was "irretrievably broken".

If he is improving, then he deserves credit, if not necessarily a pass—better late than never. I would rather have been hearing this in response to the criticisms, though. Consider how much nobler it would be to counter the "McCain's a techno-idiot" charges with, "John McCain appreciates the impact and importance of computers and internet technology, and is laboriously making continuous efforts to educate himself further in that regard." Instead of that, the overwhelming response has been, "War hero injuries! He doesn't have to learn. Pwnt." Why?

I had to go look up that factcheck link to be sure about the injury assertion, so I can't say that I've heard much more than that about it. Has he or someone in his campaign been saying "War hero injuries! He doesn't have to learn. Pwnt."?
 

Poker

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Apr 17, 2006
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It's important to you that the President of the United States uses a computer?

By that logic:

What about running a business? Is running a business important? How about being in the military? Surely being the Commander in Chief should have military experience to lead the military. What about being an executive? Working in the Executive branch of the government must surely provide one with insight into leading it.

Which one of the presidential candidates has all of those experiences? Right. None of them.

It is a point of strength if the President of the United States has personal experience with and appreciation for computer technology. It is a point of strength if the President of the United States has personal experience with and appreciation for military leadership. It is a point of strength if the President of the United States has personal experience with and appreciation for business and economics.

All of those qualities are important, and yes, neither candidate possesses all of those points of strength. I fail to see your point beyond what is self-evident though. If one candidate did have all those markets cornered, the election would probably be effectively decided already.

Requiring "proof" that his injuries have disinclined him from using a keyboard seems a bit much. It strikes me as a rather sorry attempt at making him look old and stupid and it seems as if it's playing to at least some of you.
The call was for substantiation. That shouldn't be so difficult to provide. Attacking that instead, well, I'm content to let such a response stand on its own for what it represents.
 
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Well, I think it's a little silly to feel that McCain has to prove his digital bona fides. The claims that McCain doesn't know how to use a computer arise from Obama's ads, I'm not sure why we should be taking everything Obama's ads claim at face value.
McCain has mentioned before that he keeps up with news from sites like Drudge and so on. McCain's 2000 campaign was notable for its savvy use of the internet. Whether McCain himself is sitting at the desk using the computer is kind of irrelevant (and, for a variety of reasons, I doubt any Senators personally log more than a pittance of actual face-to-screen time).
 

Poker

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Apr 17, 2006
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She was crippled by a car accident while he was in prison. He divorced his wife six years after returning to the U.S., though I'm unaware of any statement as to why he divorced her other than that their marriage was "irretrievably broken".
You haven't? Well, it was because he had numerous affairs, ultimately settling on one with a beer distributorship heiress named Cindy Lou Hensley.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...31/taking_command___the_mccain_way/?page=full
While at Cecil Field, McCain's marriage to Carol was beginning to unravel, and he has acknowledged that his extramarital affairs contributed to their divorce in 1980.

Several former Navy colleagues recalled seeing McCain with other women in social settings, and his active dating life was no secret to the officers with whom he worked. On account of his Vietnam experience, many say they forgave McCain for his womanizing, or they felt obligated to keep quiet because he was their boss.
Again, to his credit, he has publicly expressed remorse about that era of his personal history, if that means anything to anyone listening.

Has he or someone in his campaign been saying "War hero injuries! He doesn't have to learn. Pwnt."?
"War hero injuries": umm, YES? lol
"He doesn't have to learn": by implication only.
"Pwnt.": damn, you got me, I made up that one. To quote the inimitable Dr. Evil,
 

hal

Dictator
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You haven't? Well, it was because he had numerous affairs, ultimately settling on one with a beer distributorship heiress named Cindy Lou Hensley.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics...31/taking_command___the_mccain_way/?page=full
Again, to his credit, he has publicly expressed remorse about that era of his personal history, if that means anything to anyone listening.

Yeah, I know all that, but the assertion was that he left his wife because she was crippled. All I was saying was that I've never seen credible evidence of that.

Who really knows about the personal relationship he had with his wife? Looks to me like he left his wife for a hot beer baroness. That has nothing to do with what I was rebutting.

"War hero injuries": umm, YES? lol
"He doesn't have to learn": by implication only.
"Pwnt.": damn, you got me, I made up that one. To quote the inimitable Dr. Evil,

So, "Injuries". Check. "He doesn't have to learn". Imagined. My point stands.

All of those qualities are important, and yes, neither candidate possesses all of those points of strength. I fail to see your point beyond what is self-evident though. If one candidate did have all those markets cornered, the election would probably be effectively decided already.

Those aren't qualities, they are experiences. A quality is a personal characteristic. Anyone can have an experience. My point is that you can using a computer is not an experience that necessarily means one does not understand technology, in general, and especially to the point that it becomes cause for concern. Lots of idiots use Blackberries and computers.

Do you not think that any president will surround him or herself with persons that can advise on experiences (such as military, business, or technology) that are personally lacking? What about space and science? None of them are astronauts or scientists, but I'm pretty sure they'll do what they think is right to promote those areas.

The call was for substantiation. That shouldn't be so difficult to provide. Attacking that instead, well, I'm content to let such a response stand on its own for what it represents.

Again... what substantiation will suffice for you? Again... who was attacking and what did they say?
 

Luv_Studd

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Do you not think that any president will surround him or herself with persons that can advise on experiences (such as military, business, or technology) that are personally lacking? What about space and science? None of them are astronauts or scientists, but I'm pretty sure they'll do what they think is right to promote those areas.

By that logic, we could put just about anyone in office - so, why not just vote Obama and call it a day, hmmm?:)
 

Poker

Anus Retentus
Apr 17, 2006
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Yeah, I know all that, but the assertion was that he left his wife because she was crippled. All I was saying was that I've never seen credible evidence of that.

Who really knows about the personal relationship he had with his wife? Looks to me like he left his wife for a hot beer baroness. That has nothing to do with what I was rebutting.
You said, "I'm unaware of any statement as to why he divorced her other than that their marriage was 'irretrievably broken' ". Seemed clear enough to me, but nonetheless, sorry if I misunderstood.

So, "Injuries". Check. "He doesn't have to learn". Imagined. My point stands.
lol. No. "Implied" does not equal "imagined". The implications are perfectly clear anytime the War Hero card is played out of turn the way it has been here: "John McCain is above scrutiny for <damaging issue du jour>, and doesn't have to answer to your criticisms." Come on, that's plain as day.

Again... what substantiation will suffice for you? Again... who was attacking and what did they say?
Injuries to the shoulder do not utterly prohibit ones use of a computer, whereas for example, disability in the forearm, wrist, or digits would make exceedingly more sense. This is rather off the point, though—what's more important to me is whether McCain can make the case that he grasps the importance and vast economic potential inherent in furthering info tech in our country. He may be able to, however, near-zero personal experience is a hole out from which he'll have to dig himself.

Those aren't qualities, they are experiences. A quality is a personal characteristic. Anyone can have an experience. My point is that you can using a computer is not an experience that necessarily means one does not understand technology, in general, and especially to the point that it becomes cause for concern. Lots of idiots use Blackberries and computers.

Do you not think that any president will surround him or herself with persons that can advise on experiences (such as military, business, or technology) that are personally lacking? What about space and science? None of them are astronauts or scientists, but I'm pretty sure they'll do what they think is right to promote those areas.
I'd contend that experiences shape qualities, but I digress. Professional experience in several fields like you're suggesting is far beyond the test. Let's be reasonable here. I'm certainly not expressing disdain that either candidate isn't a programmer, for goodness' sake, lol.

But when it comes to, "[Not?] using a computer is not an experience that necessarily means one does not understand technology, in general" ... here I guess I just have to agree to disagree. I think it's perfectly acceptable, and even responsible of us to expect in our president not just a cursory understanding but a profound appreciation of information technology. In my view, such an appreciation can truly come only with significant personal experience using the technology oneself. Again, if McCain wants to convince me that he actually does profoundly appreciate technology despite knowing virtually nothing about it on a personal level, that would be great, and I'd be glad to hear him out.



How is the fact he left his wife or the fact he's not good with computers important to how he does his job?
With regard to McCain leaving his wife, I might agree that those infidelities may not bear on his job performance as president. (God knows no one was making that case ten years ago, were they? )

Regardless, if "character" is on the table—and if you watched any of the RNC, you know that McCain's own adulators are the ones who set that table—then it's only fair that a complete picture of McCain's character ought to be presented for people to judge.

Well ok, but let me just point out that all of those people are always the one's popping in showing there hate towards Iron Archer whenever he says something they don't like.
lol. If I were you I'd pick a different time to come to his defense, tbh. :lol:
 

Larkin

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lol. If I were you I'd pick a different time to come to his defense, tbh. :lol:

I wasn't defending his actions or coming to his defense in any way. I was just pointing out some things that I believe gets overlooked regularly.
 
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UndeadRoadkill

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Mar 26, 2001
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Yeah, I know all that, but the assertion was that he left his wife because she was crippled. All I was saying was that I've never seen credible evidence of that.

Who really knows about the personal relationship he had with his wife? Looks to me like he left his wife for a hot beer baroness. That has nothing to do with what I was rebutting.

I didn't assert, I merely suggested! Either way, it doesn't look good, he dumps his crippled wife for a rich, younger woman. In times where his opponent is attacked over having a foreign name, or not wearing a stupid little pin, I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up more.

Of course, if it was, surely he would say, "I was locked up in Vietnam for five years, and I didn't get to have sex with anyone, crippled or not," and that would be that :lol:
 

hal

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lol. No. "Implied" does not equal "imagined". The implications are perfectly clear anytime the War Hero card is played out of turn the way it has been here: "John McCain is above scrutiny for <damaging issue du jour>, and doesn't have to answer to your criticisms." Come on, that's plain as day.

The... War Hero card? What are the "issues du jour: is he claiming to be above? I say imagined because he already said he was learning, making the implication that he "doesn't have to learn" impossible.

Look, I don't want to see someone crying out "poor me" whenever he or she is in a jam, but why is it an implausability that injuries are a deterrent from using a machine? Clearly he is generally aware of the capabilities and use of a PC. He never said that he hadn't ever used one.

Injuries to the shoulder do not utterly prohibit ones use of a computer, whereas for example, disability in the forearm, wrist, or digits would make exceedingly more sense.

Again, why the assumption that his injuries are not extensive enough to make using a keyboard an unattractive activity? What proof must he offer? If you require convincing, you surely have a sufficient level of evidence in mind?

In my view, such an appreciation can truly come only with significant personal experience using the technology oneself. Again, if McCain wants to convince me that he actually does profoundly appreciate technology despite knowing virtually nothing about it on a personal level, that would be great, and I'd be glad to hear him out.

Again, lots of assumptions here. Now, it's certainly within your rights to say to a candidate "this is important to me and I am not convinced it is important to you". All of this from his comment that he was "computer illiterate". I've also heard he doesn't personally attend to his email. But again, we're looking at the non-usage of a machine and assuming that he does not understand the significance of technology.

You appear require a higher level of technology experience of a candidate before you are willing to accept that he or she has the sufficient ability to understand it. So be it.
 

hal

Dictator
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Nov 24, 1998
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I didn't assert, I merely suggested! Either way, it doesn't look good, he dumps his crippled wife for a rich, younger woman.

You're right, you didn't asset it, you suggested it, and the suggestion was that he dumped her because she was crippled. There's a fundamental difference in what you said then and what you just said.
 

UndeadRoadkill

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You're right, you didn't asset it, you suggested it, and the suggestion was that he dumped her because she was crippled. There's a fundamental difference in what you said then and what you just said.

Well, yeah I was saying two separate things in two separate posts (we're allowed to do that, right?), but if you're suggesting (or even asserting) I said a contradictory thing, I didn't, really.
 
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