Who Killed PC Gaming?

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Soggy_Popcorn

THE Irish Ninja
Feb 3, 2008
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dude, everyone has a PC and internet access now, and that's probably where they get the brunt of video game advertising.
I hardly ever see an ad on TV unless it's between 12:00am and 3:00am.

So, in that case it would either be a monetary limitation or a technical knowledge/pain in the butt limitation for people.

To solve that you have premanufactured PC's, but if you want a gaming level PC you are paying 2-4 times the amount of a console which can already play a lot of the same games, plus others you can't get anywhere else.

I don't know, PC gaming has it's sweet highs, and it's extreme lows.
You gotta be either a hardcore sunofabiatch or a rich bastard to keep up with it.

This is untrue in so many ways. Everyone has a PC as you state. So, for less than the cost of a console, you can buy a video card. Ta-da.

And the assumption that PC-centric gamers must be hardcore or rich is retarded. I am neither. I (like a few other friends of mine) simply find it more fun. I know a couple guys who still religiously play Warcraft 3 (which is not graphically demanding, so throw out the rich assumption), simply because they love it. The endless possibilities for variety on PC far outweigh any technical difficulty for me.
 

Jordan L

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Jan 20, 2008
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The biggest factor is Intrusive DRM that is continually being used with most PC games. Not only are people still pirating games, but the people that would have purchased a particular PC game decide not to because of the often problematic DRM associated with it (Fallout 3, GRID, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas, Assassin's Creed, Spore, Mass Effect, GTA IV are some examples) - most of these games had patches released to fix some of the issues the DRM caused.

So not only are developers losing sales from illegal downloads, but also from people deciding not to purchase the PC game due to the problematic DRM associated with it. Hopefully there is an improvement with DRM or a new security measure in the future that both the seller and consumer agree with.
 

elmuerte

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Jan 25, 2000
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A large portion of your target audience was still using XP, and there was no sign people would just "upgrade" to Vista just to play your game. So you can choose to their stick to DirectX9 or have two active development branches, one for DirectX9 and one for DirectX10. A lot of programming work goes into the graphical part of the engine, and this is were major differences are present in DX9 and DX10. For audio you would ofcourse use OpenAL because audio in DirectX10 is completely useless.

When you are developing software you want to keep the number of possible configurations your software runs on low. That's why we invented standards (like OpenGL, OpenAL, DirectX, etc.).

Of course a lot of people think of useless excuses for DirectX10 not being on WinXP. Like, vista has a different driver model, but that's completely bull****. The reason why DirectX10 isn't on XP is because Microsoft wanted to use that as argument to move people to Vista.
 

KeithZG

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Oct 14, 2003
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What? Vista is the reason for the PC gaming downfall? That's retarded. Games run better on Vista / Windows 7 if your PC is new (not some old p.o.s.). Besides, it's the only working x64 windows so far and Windows 7 is going to replace it. It's about damn time for devs to start using the 64-bit code ffs! It's 2009!

Well, as a counter-example (and hey, Unreal Engine related!) when The Nameless Mod came out I had zero problems running it in Wine, but my roommate who runs a Vista machine had constant crashes like nobody's business. Non-UE, Crysis (though not Warhead, weirdly) has a really annoying flickering-foliage bug on his computer; it doesn't do that on my other big PC-gaming friend's 3-year-old XP Pro machine (it was built to last!) nor my own computer (back when I last booted into Windows, back in the time period when Crysis first came out heh...still waiting for that Linux client for UT3, Epic ;) ).

I definitely agree though about 64bit; I was running a 64-bit OS on my main computer a year before Microsoft even had a 64-bit version of Windows (non-Itanium, I mean, as in for me to actually run on a home computer). At first there was some weirdness, but pretty soon I was living happily in 64-bit land. But ever since then, about every half-year I peer out from my little rock and gasp in astonishment that the majority of people still aren't running 64-bit OSes, and not only is so much (mainly in the corporate world) not ported yet, but some things are even still being written for 32-bit!

Obviously Intel's backtracking with the original Core Duos didn't help, though; they obviously wanted to stall adoption of AMD's x86-64 extention until they could catch up, and I remember groaning at the time when hearing that Microsoft was backing down from all the limitations they had been planning for the 32-bit versions of Vista under pressure from Intel trying to save their then-current Core Duo line. Once again something that directly affected the entire computer ecosystem (by forstalling wider 64-bit adoption) and it was far more from political bull**** than technological limitations. If anything is killing PC gaming (which I somewhat doubt, at worst it's just scaling back and changing somewhat), it's the corporate politics.

Addendum: a more current example of the Microsoft biting into PC gaming is their specs for Windows 7 Starter Edition, which pretty much end up determining what specs netbooks are going to be made with...which includes, among other things, the provision that the graphics chip be "less than or equal to DX9". Considering no major manufacturer makes non-DX10-capable chips these days AFAIK, that basically means that no one can make a cheap disposable laptop with a modern graphics chip, no matter how cheap the chip might be itself since you'll still have to spring for a full-priced copy of Windows then.

As we've seen with the XP-on-netbooks bit, manufacturers of netbooks will gimp these machines just to lower them to Microsoft's requirements, which is especially problematic since many of Intel's Atom boards have the RAM soldered on. That means even the final-stage manufacturers and sellers that have versions without Windows won't have the options since they'll be an entirely secondary market. Sure, you can choose to have Ubuntu or FreeDos or nothing installed on your new Dell, but no one is manufacturing the hardware for you to buy something even just a smidgen beyond the limitations anyways...

Of course a lot of people think of useless excuses for DirectX10 not being on WinXP. Like, vista has a different driver model, but that's completely bull****. The reason why DirectX10 isn't on XP is because Microsoft wanted to use that as argument to move people to Vista.

I remember at the time after Vista came out, while I was still playing a few games (like Supreme Commander) that didn't work yet in Wine or natively in Linux, that several different disgruntled hackers had found ways to hack DirectX10 into running on Windows XP. The hacks themselves, if I remember, didn't actually do that much more than tricking DirectX10 into thinking it was installing onto a legitimate target version of Windows. Wikipedia links to this mention of things: http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/ although it's more of a "get it!" than any in depth explanation of what's going on.

At the time Halo 2 PC came out I remmember laughing at the fact that the Xbox1 game, clearly with nothing that couldn't be supported by DirectX9-era cards (and indeed, the port added nothing that wasn't) was Vista only. Microsoft really couldn't have been more obvious about it. Plus with UT3 on the horizon later that year I knew I wouldn't have to deal with any of that Microsoft nonsense anyways, there'd be a far better and shinier game that I could run on the powerful new PC I had bought primarily for that very game (which I'm typing from right now). Oh well...
 
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elmuerte

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I definitely agree though about 64bit; I was running a 64-bit OS on my main computer a year before Microsoft even had a 64-bit version of Windows (non-Itanium, I mean, as in for me to actually run on a home computer). At first there was some weirdness, but pretty soon I was living happily in 64-bit land. But ever since then, about every half-year I peer out from my little rock and gasp in astonishment that the majority of people still aren't running 64-bit OSes, and not only is so much (mainly in the corporate world) not ported yet, but some things are even still being written for 32-bit!
Yes, that was another huge mistake by Microsoft, which they continue to make. There should never have been a 32bit Vista. The minimum requirement for Vista is infact a CPU that can run in 64bit mode. Sure, Vista 64bit has problems running the 16bit code, although I don't understand why (ever heard of emulation?). But then again, most software that contains a piece of 16bit code (specially old InstallShield installers) don't work on Vista 32bit anyway.

And yes, Microsoft continued with this mistake, because the default Windows 7 version is also 32bit. Of course others also continue with this, for example Ubuntu defaults to 32bit when you download it, the switch to 64bit is not clearly visible. But then again, Ubuntu runs on 10 year old hardware, and doesn't come preinstalled on new computers.
 

KeithZG

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Of course others also continue with this, for example Ubuntu defaults to 32bit when you download it, the switch to 64bit is not clearly visible. But then again, Ubuntu runs on 10 year old hardware, and doesn't come preinstalled on new computers.

Good points, although....for example, http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=76. That's just random, all the other System76 machines (even the budget ones) are sold as 64-bit too, with the obvious exceptions of the nettop and netbook ones which, running Intel Atom chips, have to be 32-bit (hey Intel, it's Two Thousand F-ing Nine, stop screwing over 64-bit!).

Not that you aren't right about Ubuntu defaulting to 32-bit, and everyone's guilty of inertia to varying degrees. For example, the Ubuntu.com site, if you just go for the main and obvious download links, has the option to change to 64-bit set below the middle-of-the-page download link (relatively easy to miss). Kubuntu is better, making it very obvious in the process of choosing your download that you're choosing between 32-bit and 64-bit. I think that subtle difference is telling; the bigger the organization or company is, the more inertia, thus the smaller "flavours" within Ubuntu are a bit better at getting with the times.

Dell.com, the other big seller of pre-installed Ubuntu (though not nearly as good as System76 in any way), doesn't seem to list whether it's 64-bit or 32-bit. I'd bet good money though that in their case it's 32-bit.
 

{Ogre}Spin

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Apr 24, 2002
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32 bit vista is indeed a problem. I've got a few boxes running an assortment of OS' at home and of these 3 are almost identical spec...the vista x64 gives the best gaming performance, followed by xp-pro and finally at the bottom of the pile is vista x86, which gives significantly lower performance and has a habit of crashing (it won't play my ut3 AT ALL without crashing randomly).

I agree that the forthcoming windows 7 x86 is ALSO a really bad idea, not least as pretty much any machine that is sold these days should be x64. Almost all of the worst parts of microsoft OS' have been related to legacy support.
 

M.A.D.X.W

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Aug 24, 2008
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Seriously, blaming Microsoft for the declining popularity in PC gaming? that's bulls***.
If it wasn't for Microsoft PC gaming wouldn't even exist in the first place, people just love blaming Microsoft for everything.
Consoles are getting good, obviously people are going to go for the console and get guaranteed performance, it's inevitable that when a next-gen console is released PC gaming will take a hit.

It doesn't occur to the regular joe that they can play games on the PC, you don't see adverts on TV for PC gaming, you do for consoles. Consoles get more publicity.
There isn't really much the PC has to offer most people over consoles anyway, for most people.
 

JaFO

bugs are features too ...
Nov 5, 2000
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We killed pc-gaming, not the industry, not the developers ... it was us.

And we killed it because we no one wanted to admit that to solve the problem we would have to turn the pc into a console.
Instead the pc-fanboys continue to insist that a 'simple' upgrade is all you need to play a game.

There's too much choice, too much tech-speak and no one except geeks wants to spend even one minute on anything that is not playing the ff-ing game.

It's easy to blame DRM, but consoles also have that stuff ... and they make it work.

It's easy to blame piracy, but consoles also have to deal with that stuff ... however as the games are plug&play there's no real temptation to locate a crack that fixes what should not have broken to begin with.

PC-gaming as we came to know and love it last century is dead.
The high-end hardcore games have moved to platforms that are easier to maintain.
The only surviving pc-games are either MMO's like WoW or casual games like the dozens of webbased games using micro-payments.
The pc-gamer has stopped paying for full games, instead they've chosen for subscription-based entertainment.

pc-gaming dead ?
It never was more than a small niche in a very big world ...
 

{Ogre}Spin

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Apr 24, 2002
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I'll say it again...they should just make an os that appeals to gamers.


Something I've said for many years. Even if it was as restrictive as put the dvd in the drive and pc reboots into 'gaming mode'. I don't need my pc to be building file indexes in the background while I'm playing, or any of the other 'maintanence tasks' that windows likes to feed on my processor cycles.

Google's new OS isn't going to be what I'm looking for here, being more geared toward browser level access and very simple graphical abilities.

The simple solution would be to have something along the lines of the xbox dashboard that was able to load instead of windows, not on top of it.
 

Sir_Brizz

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Feb 3, 2000
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We killed pc-gaming, not the industry, not the developers ... it was us.

And we killed it because we no one wanted to admit that to solve the problem we would have to turn the pc into a console.
Instead the pc-fanboys continue to insist that a 'simple' upgrade is all you need to play a game.

There's too much choice, too much tech-speak and no one except geeks wants to spend even one minute on anything that is not playing the ff-ing game.

It's easy to blame DRM, but consoles also have that stuff ... and they make it work.

It's easy to blame piracy, but consoles also have to deal with that stuff ... however as the games are plug&play there's no real temptation to locate a crack that fixes what should not have broken to begin with.

PC-gaming as we came to know and love it last century is dead.
The high-end hardcore games have moved to platforms that are easier to maintain.
The only surviving pc-games are either MMO's like WoW or casual games like the dozens of webbased games using micro-payments.
The pc-gamer has stopped paying for full games, instead they've chosen for subscription-based entertainment.

pc-gaming dead ?
It never was more than a small niche in a very big world ...
I cannot disagree with this more. The PC gaming market is as alive as it ever was now, IMO.

The PC we knew a decade ago may not be around as much anymore, but that is a GOOD thing. Ten years ago I was still dealing with autoexec.bat, memory limitations, etc. It was still Windows 98/ME for pete's sake. Blue screen, blue screen, CTD, blue screen, ctd, ctd, ctd, blue screen, repeat ad nauseum.

A large portion has moved toward INDEPENDENT games, I'd say. Not necessarily casual games, of course it depends on how you choose to define that. There are tons of sub-$15 games that I find quite superb.
 

-=WolverinE=-

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Apr 16, 2006
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Well, as a counter-example (and hey, Unreal Engine related!) when The Nameless Mod came out I had zero problems running it in Wine, but my roommate who runs a Vista machine had constant crashes like nobody's business. Non-UE, Crysis (though not Warhead, weirdly) has a really annoying flickering-foliage bug on his computer; it doesn't do that on my other big PC-gaming friend's 3-year-old XP Pro machine (it was built to last!) nor my own computer (back when I last booted into Windows, back in the time period when Crysis first came out heh...still waiting for that Linux client for UT3, Epic ;) ).

I apologize for not clarifying the fact that I've been using ONLY Vista Ultimate x64. I can't really comment on the x86 one, but I always assumed that if you're going 32-bit, use XP instead of Vista.

Hah, I have Deus Ex installed as well and it runs without hitches (same applies for Aliens VS. Predator 1) :p . I've never had an issue with any game under that OS. The only problems you can have with it is UAC, Driver Signature Enforcement, 16 bit code incompatibility (you're using a 64-bit OS anyway) and some tasks MicroShaft decided you need running.

There's a lot of sites hosting files/information about tweaks and optimization of your OS so even if you're not a computer geek you can find a way around the above mentioned.


Addendum: a more current example of the Microsoft biting into PC gaming is their specs for Windows 7 Starter Edition, which pretty much end up determining what specs netbooks are going to be made with...which includes, among other things, the provision that the graphics chip be "less than or equal to DX9". Considering no major manufacturer makes non-DX10-capable chips these days AFAIK, that basically means that no one can make a cheap disposable laptop with a modern graphics chip, no matter how cheap the chip might be itself since you'll still have to spring for a full-priced copy of Windows then.
Allow me to comment on that. Windows 7 runs pretty good on a MSI Wind notebook, property of a colleague of mine. That's intel Atom and 1GB of RAM, so don't look at what MicroShaft are posting. They have a deal with notebook / hardware manufacturers so it's going to benefit everyone except the end user. My suggestion would be to get a PC without an OS and install whatever you want on it (and do so from a flash drive, please :p).
 

Sir_Brizz

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Feb 3, 2000
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Windows 7 boxes are supposedly coming with both 32-bit and 64-bit discs.