UTXMP is a BETA.

[T-Shinzon]

You could not see you your own trail emitters in ORIGINAL xmp either. This is ok, the only thing they should add is a small movement (shake) of the scope when you fire.

Well I put (sniper rifle) in parenthesis 'cause I could see the bullet trail for that.

Anyway, UTXMP needs more "forces."

What I mean is, in U2XMP for instance the rockets had explosions that could be felt much more than UTXMP in its current state. Another example would be the sniper rifle. Now there is no viewshake nor adequate sound (I haven't verified the sound part yet, but thats the feeling I got) and sometimes I can't tell that I shot it at all.

Personally I think the Raptor should go back to its normal preportions since it looked much cooler and more powerful that way.

As for the gunner flamethrower, I only got killed by it in very closed corridors (like that spammy but sometimes fun map Duality) or when I was caught from behind hacking something. Most people that spray and pray against me get me to simply boost out of range and lob grenades at them or shell them with shotgun bullets. I never found the flamethrower too powerful. The flamethrower was designed for close quarters and that's where it should be better than rockets.

I never found the smoke grenades useful at all in CS, I used flash grenades instead, but I'm a n00b at that game so I wouldn't know.

But I liked the fast-exploding smoke grenades because they were much more useful that way. Smoke grenades are, in fact, the sort of thing that Rangers (or scouts) would have. Fast exploding ones work better, and I think the game would be more balanced with fast exploding smoke grenades.

In U2, didn't most weapons have practically infinite range? I remember that the sniper rifle could shoot at the very LEAST 65536 units (about 1 mile), and very probably more. I also remember that the AR secondary pellets could reach all the way across a map and destroy a Raptor on the other side. Now each weapon has a distance limit that is very annoying.

Also, I think that Raptors should recieve more damage upon collisions. As of now, Raptor collisions register barely a hit against its health.

Did I mention that Conc Grenades don't tip vehicles anymore?

 

[/\ºKamakazi]

I think this is all quite easy to sum up....

goes a lil somtin like...

Make UTxmp like U2xmp - nuff said

I think most will agree that U2xmp was "almost" flawless in every aspect and needs only minor alterations - although UT2k4 engine is a different beast - my hopes is that FMI will be able to replicate it for us all so we can get back to hardcore gaming!

 

[Kazuma]

I think this is all quite easy to sum up....

goes a lil somtin like...

Make UTxmp like U2xmp - nuff said

I think most will agree that U2xmp was "almost" flawless in every aspect and needs only minor alterations - although UT2k4 engine is a different beast - my hopes is that FMI will be able to replicate it for us all so we can get back to hardcore gaming!

Agree totally, which is why I thought this thread was very good and added some other thoughts on what was different.

Some peeps might say it's 2 different games, but I'd go for the tried and tested original method. It was balanced enough that all the weapons were effective in (keyword: many) situations.

If there was balance issues in U2XMP, it was in exploits such as conc grenade jumps, boost jumping, and more which I don't remember or discovered.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I think this is all quite easy to sum up....

goes a lil somtin like...

Make UTxmp like U2xmp - nuff said

I think most will agree that U2xmp was "almost" flawless in every aspect and needs only minor alterations - although UT2k4 engine is a different beast - my hopes is that FMI will be able to replicate it for us all so we can get back to hardcore gaming!

So let's make this new mod a buggy, unsupported, dead game right off the bat?

There are some very obvious gameplay issues that COULD be fixed, but unfortunately only 6% of the XMP community is FORWARD THINKING.

 

[/\ºKamakazi]

??sir_brizz, I was not refering to the unsupported part obviously (wasn't it?) and the fact that the game is now dead. I used the word "almost flawless" and "needs minor alterations" because U2xmp had some bugs and issues - but not very many.

Many have come to love U2xmp - it's physics and smooth player movement is what makes it great - UTxmp will have many new and exciting effects and options but it would be perfect if the core of it was identical to U2xmp - but I love the new harby though - fast and stable....

 

[Sir_Brizz]

So you expect that the whole 100-200 people that played the original is plenty for UTXMP as well? because the numbers dropped long before Legend went out of business and the master server went down.

Anyways you've already proved yourself wrong by liking the new harby. It's not identical to the U2XMP harby.

 

[/\ºKamakazi]

heh, the fact that FMI is making UTxmp and is working hard to bring the ole U2xmp "feel" back proves my point enough. I have full confidence they will succeed too! Sir_Brizz you just don't get it - almost every aspect of U2xmp is being copied for the UT version - yes I like the harby in the new one but as I have said so very recent - U2xmp had minor issues that needed fixing and the harby was one of them!

 

[Sir_Brizz]

heh, the fact that FMI is making UTxmp and is working hard to bring the ole U2xmp "feel" back proves my point enough. I have full confidence they will succeed too! Sir_Brizz you just don't get it - almost every aspect of U2xmp is being copied for the UT version - yes I like the harby in the new one but as I have said so very recent - U2xmp had minor issues that needed fixing and the harby was one of them!

Umm...that's exactly what I was saying. You said you wanted it to be identical and now you are saying therre are a few things that could be fixed. I agree with that, but you'll find most people on these forums don't.

 

[shoptroll]

Umm...that's exactly what I was saying. You said you wanted it to be identical and now you are saying therre are a few things that could be fixed. I agree with that, but you'll find most people on these forums don't.

I know I'd be happy seeing as close a conversion as they can possibly get. Granted things on a whole seem to run a lot smoother than U2XMP did, I won't mind seeing a few differences/tweaks/improvements here and there. I mostly play tech, and I'm kindof the mind that gas grenades probably use a downgrade in power from U2XMP. (I think the way the discussions were going at the time that it probably would've been looked into by Legend were they still around today).

Not to hijack the thread, but I do remember that gas seemed to hit a bit outside of the actual cloud... I wonder if they decreased that effect or if they tweaked the damage / hit rate or amount of damage per hit to make it so that walking into gas wasn't a complete suicide wish. Although I do believe that if you get hit with the stuff dead on you shouldn't be able to just "shrug" it off and continue on your merry way.

Anyways, stuff like that I won't mind. I would really like to see more look n' feel elements implemented (the hud does the job, but it feels too large... too UT2003 almost), like maybe get us the old animated reticles that U2 had (which freaking rocked btw), and just more stuff like that.

There's definately one thing I've noticed about the Unreal community in general: change is good, in small doses. I think overall UTXMP has gotten a pretty good reaction, most of the complaints are akin to when UT2003 was released, but keep in mind this is a BETA not a game on a CD.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I think the gas and smoke come out of the nade slowly like they would IRL, not explode into a huge poof cloud.

The smoke probably should grow a little faster, but the gas...meh.

 

[T-Shinzon]

I like how the harby no longer does triple barrel rolls on a tiny bump in the ground. But weapon-wise, I would like it to be identical to the U2 harby.

Also, being too specific / technical doesn't help anyone.

IceBoy, it wasn't hijacking the thread because thats what the thread was originally about: improving UTXMP!

Realistically, the gas / smoke 'nades should come out slowly, right? But in XMP, it worked quite well that they expanded quickly. In RL I've never seen a smoke cloud expand that fast and then just stop, but in XMP it worked very well gameplay-wise. You could toss a few grenades and know that they would do their job quickly rather than having to time the rate of expansion.

The ranger's smoke 'nade was perfect for arty grabs, and slowing it down will only alert players more immediately to the ranger's actions (assuming the ranger actually waits for the smoke to get reasonably thick).

The tech's gas would have to be deployed much further ahead of a player to catch them with it since it ejects slowly. That would me much harder because the further away it is, the less chance that a player you are targeting will actually run into it. The fact that it expanded fast made it good for spraying to attain a sense of general confusion and to prevent people from following you without taking damage.

I recall someone once telling me that conc grenades once dissipated gas/smoke, and I think that's a good idea. There may be issues with balance, so please enlighten me to those if you have any.

 

[shoptroll]

Conc grenades dissipating smoke/gas makes sensse since the particle system allowed particles to be affected by environmental changes in U2.

I think the gas question is going to be one of the more scrutinized features of this mod down the road. I think right now, there's more issue with the ranger's magnum than gas.

In terms of expansion rate, a fast poof rate for the gas and smoke makes sense. Especially smoke. You're 100% right when you say that a delay on its deployment will alert enemies to a rangers existance. Also, the longer the smoke takes to build up, the more time the enemy has to see the ranger in an escape manuver and in cases where the ranger is trying to sneak in ninja style it only serves as an early warning.

I really think gas should deploy fairly rapidly. True, this isn't real life. But since when does a game need to be realistic to make something work? If anything, I would recommend researching how Diablo II handled with balancing out poison effects, since I know Blizzard spent a while tweaking the poison system in that game. Ultimately, I think gas should be as lethal as it was before, but perhaps stretch out the damage or something a little longer (so that if you're running through its not like instant death). There must be a sweet spot that can be found by tweaking damage per hit and the number of hits that gas does during its existance.

Finally, I heard some request to drop the tracers on the Assault Rifle. If memory serves right, there were tracers on the AR in U2XMP, maybe have fewer tracers on the weapon? I haven't really gotten a chance to see an enemy use the AR on me, so I don't know why people are having issues with tracer rounds.

I like how the harby no longer does triple barrel rolls on a tiny bump in the ground. But weapon-wise, I would like it to be identical to the U2 harby.

Also, being too specific / technical doesn't help anyone.

IceBoy, it wasn't hijacking the thread because thats what the thread was originally about: improving UTXMP!

Realistically, the gas / smoke 'nades should come out slowly, right? But in XMP, it worked quite well that they expanded quickly. In RL I've never seen a smoke cloud expand that fast and then just stop, but in XMP it worked very well gameplay-wise. You could toss a few grenades and know that they would do their job quickly rather than having to time the rate of expansion.

The ranger's smoke 'nade was perfect for arty grabs, and slowing it down will only alert players more immediately to the ranger's actions (assuming the ranger actually waits for the smoke to get reasonably thick).

The tech's gas would have to be deployed much further ahead of a player to catch them with it since it ejects slowly. That would me much harder because the further away it is, the less chance that a player you are targeting will actually run into it. The fact that it expanded fast made it good for spraying to attain a sense of general confusion and to prevent people from following you without taking damage.

I recall someone once telling me that conc grenades once dissipated gas/smoke, and I think that's a good idea. There may be issues with balance, so please enlighten me to those if you have any.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

In terms of expansion rate, a fast poof rate for the gas and smoke makes sense. Especially smoke. You're 100% right when you say that a delay on its deployment will alert enemies to a rangers existance. Also, the longer the smoke takes to build up, the more time the enemy has to see the ranger in an escape manuver and in cases where the ranger is trying to sneak in ninja style it only serves as an early warning.

I really think gas should deploy fairly rapidly. True, this isn't real life. But since when does a game need to be realistic to make something work? If anything, I would recommend researching how Diablo II handled with balancing out poison effects, since I know Blizzard spent a while tweaking the poison system in that game. Ultimately, I think gas should be as lethal as it was before, but perhaps stretch out the damage or something a little longer (so that if you're running through its not like instant death). There must be a sweet spot that can be found by tweaking damage per hit and the number of hits that gas does during its existance.

I agree, but I don't really care. I think it's nice to see it spread more realistically, athough the smoke cloud should build at least twioce as fast as it does now. The gas...meh. I don't care. I like how it is now because it forces the tech to be more accurate with their grenades rather than just spam them all around the person they are attacking.

Finally, I heard some request to drop the tracers on the Assault Rifle. If memory serves right, there were tracers on the AR in U2XMP, maybe have fewer tracers on the weapon? I haven't really gotten a chance to see an enemy use the AR on me, so I don't know why people are having issues with tracer rounds.

What happens is every shot has a tracer so you just see a bunch of lines flying across the screen. They definitely need to be reduced to like 1 of 3 or more.

 

[shoptroll]

I agree, but I don't really care. I think it's nice to see it spread more realistically, athough the smoke cloud should build at least twioce as fast as it does now. The gas...meh. I don't care. I like how it is now because it forces the tech to be more accurate with their grenades rather than just spam them all around the person they are attacking.

What happens is every shot has a tracer so you just see a bunch of lines flying across the screen. They definitely need to be reduced to like 1 of 3 or more.

I think the U2XMP had tracers every now and then. If every bullet has a tracer that's a problem.

As for gas. Like I said, making it less spammy would be a good thing, as long as the overall power isn't crippled. I think the gas is meant to be an anti-gunner weapon (slow movement means can't get away from gas easily). That's my theory.

 

[FireCrack]

Personaly i think gas is a temporary area denial weapon, for blocking off doors, your artifact node, etc.

 

[MetalMarine]

I wasn't whining, I made clear my intent for getting players to tell me about things they don't like, but I may have gone out of hand. Yeah, I realize that the comments belonged here and not there, but I was kinda fumed at the time over the initial dissapointment of an imperfect product. Of course, that implies that I wanted perfection first go, which is way too much to ask of FMI. (please don't take that as an insult, FMI )

why dong you donate a few grand to help them make it a more perfect game. its free bro and its sweet. u2xmp kicked arse and this will to. only a beta.

 

[T-Shinzon]

why dong you donate a few grand to help them make it a more perfect game. its free bro and its sweet. u2xmp kicked arse and this will to. only a beta.

I believe that post was something of an apology, or at least public realization of a mistake. And gee, the thread title is "UTXMP is a BETA."

 

[MetalMarine]

I believe that post was something of an apology, or at least public realization of a mistake. And gee, the thread title is "UTXMP is a BETA."

lol. i laugh at noobs that whine about free stuff.

 

[T-Shinzon]

You can call me a n00b, I don't care. Whatever. (btw your smiley threw me off )

But now on-topic,

Anyone notice how the gunner rockets send vehicles (especially the Harby) flying? I "juggled" a harby around with my relatively small rockets and found it kinda weird. Also, the conc grenades don't do crap to vehicles in knocking them over.

I still don't like how you can switch seats with the number keys without exiting the vehicle. It severely increases the power of the Juggernaut ESPECIALLY. Now one person in a jugg is almost as potent as two was in U2XMP. That really unbalances stuff.