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UT3 User Interface vs the rest

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by elmuerte, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Cybro-Thing

    Cybro-Thing New Member

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    -The map that has to load in the background deffo is the thing that annoys me most. Ive seen other games where they had moving stuff in the background too, but in that case it was just a simple vid that didn't swallow too much power. (Rome Total War - don't have a vid, sorry).

    -The first time I started up UT3 I couldn't even find where to adjust the texture detail, neither could my brother. Texture detail is just something soo basic that it should be the very very first thing you should see when going into the games detail menu.

    -The colour of the menu is ****ed. Red and white, I just don't like it. They should've picked a more subtle and darker colour.

    - Those 5 different vids you see when starting up UT3. What the hell is up with that? Sure, the first time I start up a new game I patiently watch every logo/vid go by. The second time when starting up UT3 any normal person would just click past em. So why does a game need 5 seperate vids before even starting up? I just don't get it. They could've just put every logo inside 1 little vid instead of making a seperate one for every logo, because no normal person would watch those twice anyway.
     
  2. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Those of you saying the UT2004 menu is better than the UT3 menu make me laugh. When UT2004 first came out almost everyone was complaining about how bad it was, because it is only very slightly better than UT3 in terms of how many clicks it takes to get places.
     
  3. Kantham

    Kantham Fool.

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    Go ahead and laugh Mr.Funny, over 80% of this board will tell you the contrary.
    It's options were much better, the look of UT3's menu isn't really the problem though.
     
  4. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    You're telling me, though, that one UI is better than another because of a few lines of text and checkboxes.

    I would certainly agree that the CoD4 UI is better than the UT3 UI simply because there is very little clicking around, the menu loads in a split second. I don't really care about the number of options, frankly I think many games have too many options for the casual gamer (and even for me). If I want to change advanced settings, I have no problem ini diving, since I will be headed there anyway.

    By that same token, I would also say that the CoD4 UI is better than the UT2004 UI.
     
  5. Kantham

    Kantham Fool.

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    Hell yeah, so is the game overall.
     
  6. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Uhm.. duh? that is exactly what a menu is, lines of text and checkboxes (or sliders or whatever).

    The more options, the better.

    Casual versus harcore gamers is exactly why they make a simple menu, and a checkbox to enable the advanced menu, 2k4 had that if you recall, dont remember if 2k3 had it but it probably did.
    Thus there is no reason why both groups cannot be satiesfied, and the UT3 menu could have its cake and eat it too just by using such a system, there's nothing complicated about it.

    So, changing yor preffered team from Red to Blue is an "advanced option" now? :p

    But really, weather or not you dont mind ini diving is besides the point, ini diving is if anything NOT for the casual gamer! it is not a substitute for a full featured menu, and definately not when it doesen't just mean editing "advanced options" that you only need to set once, but usefull gameplay options that you would often wish to change on the fly.

    Also, even with ini diving, there's alot we still cannot do, again, if you wish to discuss this issue, go launch 2k4 and have a good solid look at Instant action, and all the bot menu's there, in various gametypes aswell, edit some individual bots whilst your at it, i know you never played IA, but have a look, then launch UT3 and see what that's like in comparison, that should give you a better understanding of why menu options are important, and why none of this could ever work as mere ini tweaks.
     
  7. BobTheBeheader

    BobTheBeheader New Member

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    I don't have the game installed anymore, but I remember Unreal 2's GUI as being pretty solid. Also F.E.A.R.'s wasn't too bad.

    At the end of the day, however, you just can't beat HL2's simplicity and aesthetics.
    [SCREENSHOT]http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5655/hl2guihg7.jpg[/SCREENSHOT]
     
  8. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    You're talking very specific semantics. I'm talking about the menu system in whole. You're talking about the settings area of the menu system.
    I don't remember UT2004 having an advanced menu option (particularly at release) and I'm positive that UT2003 had nothing like that.

    And I'm not saying that they shouldn't add more options top the UI, I'm simply saying that there ARE reasons to have less options on the UI, even on the PC.
    Arguably, yes. How many casual gamers do you know that HAVE TO be on the blue team, rather than just having the teams as even as possible?
    And the casual gamer doesn't need the majority of options that were in the UT2004 UI or the CoD4 UI, honestly. Dragging a couple of sliders that make comon changes is a lot more intuitive for someone that doesn't know or care about "Pixel Shader 3.0b" or "Normal Maps" or even something as simple as "Anisotropic Filtering" or "Antialiasing".

    What options are missing that you would ever want to change on the fly? To me that sounds like "in the middle of playing the game" and the options you have talked about in this and other posts are things you wouldn't ever want to (or, more specifically, need to) change on the fly.
    And I already addressed this. The options you are talking about didn't exist in UT2003, and the only plausible reason they DID exist in UT2004 is because people had already built them for UT2003. I did play a TON of Instant Action in UT2003, and the opnly options I really ever changed were on the game configuration screen, maybe the bot rosters and mutators. I'd be surprised if heavy customization was something most people really wanted in that area of the game. In addition, I almost exclusively played Instant Action in UT, and I never found a use for all of those deep customization menus (that were available through mutators). I want to play the game, not tweak the bots to pinpoint values.
     
  9. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

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    People who can't see why the UT2004 menu is better then the UT3 one makes ME laugh, so it looks like we have a win-win situation here. =)

    Yes, but no sane ones.

    And why must the newbies and casuals be the determiner? Just because you personally don't use a feature doesn't mean there are a lot of people who really apreciate it. It's allowed to be subjective in a forum, but objectivity makes discussions much more constructive.
     
  10. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    My biggest gripe about the menu system is the lack of ability to save certain things, such as mutators. I also would like to be able to go back and play the last map played in IA without having to reselect it from the listing. But these are not showstoppers; they are nuisances, that is for sure, but the menu system is usable.
     
  11. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Good for you, but you didn't offer any reasons WHY that was the case.
    I already showed that there were "sane ones". Besides, I don't think even Grobut is saying that simple options are bad, he is just saying that there should be more advanced options for those who care about them.
    Because that is the majority of people who are going to buy your game. If 50% of the people who bought UT2004 only played offline, then 75% of the people that were left never cared for advanced features or played competitively.

    Once again, I'm not saying that they should not add more options. I certainly believe they should, But I also believe it should be in addition to what they currently have.
     
  12. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    The UT3 UI have some kind of tab function, where you can change panel by clicking the different tabs. A bit simple, but it kind of works anyway. The engine looks cleaner if the choices are more limited.
     
  13. neilthecellist

    neilthecellist Renegade.

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    Jesus! No wonder this thread ran so slowly (I have a 56k modem).

    In any case, I think you have a point, the other games (e.g. Crysis/GTASA/HL2) do have better user interfaces than UT3's. I'm still waiting for Epic to bring back the good ol' simplicity of user interfaces. While UT2004's wasn't exactly the best either, it's certainly better than what we have currently.
     
  14. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Well okay I got a few more pictures on the way but I thought I would start with 2k4 since I knew alot of people would bring this one up. Honestly 2k4's menus might have more options but its far from better than UT3's hands down.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Take these two for eg, you can see that the lists could have been made bigger easily to prevent extra scrolling, something which is also prominent on this HL2 one.

    [screenshot]http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5655/hl2guihg7.jpg[/screenshot]

    The thing which gets me about the HL2 one is that the server browser is adjustable. But these config keys arnt.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Could it have had something to do with the advanced vide options? Well if they were all put on a single page it would have saved scrolling in the config key menu.


    Anyways back to 2k4...
    [screenshot]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/OlympusMons/UC2004/GUI/ServerRules_newvsold.jpg[/screenshot]
    [screenshot]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/OlympusMons/UC2004/GUI/NewCharacterSelectHead.jpg[/screenshot][screenshot]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/OlympusMons/UC2004/GUI/NewCharacterSelect.jpg[/screenshot]

    As you can see these are some adjustments I made on the GUI to make it cleaner, one of the things I never liked about 2k4 was this popup page mania it has going on. Having pages full of options is all well and good but you gotta make the best use of the screen space avaliable in my eyes, something which some GUI's do better than others.

    With the midgame menu its not obvious you can scroll in server info part since there are no visible bars, but you can. Although a small tweak and you have a much better view of a longer maplist and all the server info on there right in your face.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    You want each page to have a clear and concise description for the options it contains which is another area 2k4 fails. Some things are dumped under sound, hud and whatnot and could have been put together on other pages provided the extra room was made.


    So I think the biggest problem with UT3's menu is this big strip in the middle and that options fall on that. It doesnt stop there though as a side by side layout like cnc3 or crysis could have provided better use of screen space for those options.

    [screenshot]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/OlympusMons/GUIDiscuss/mutcustomutv045-01.jpg[/screenshot][screenshot]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/OlympusMons/GUIDiscuss/mutcustomutv045-02.jpg[/screenshot]

    As you can see though it is hard to see the tabs with the text being that close together but the options being in 2 columns makes better use of the screen space. The weapon names down the side make it quicker to get to the subpages for each weapon also, keeping all the weapons cleanly on 1 tab button.

    [screenshot]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/OlympusMons/GUIDiscuss/ut3wa-04.jpg[/screenshot]

    This is an early version webadmin interface, as you can see the mutator selection makes fuller use of the screen space and the bar down the side allows for all expanded menus for less clicking. It also has radio buttons for multiple selections instead of dropdown lists or just lists.

    We all know 2k4 has more options and I dont think thats the point of this thread, this thread is to discuss the interface itself!

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    See now this one has a nice amount of options, the tabs are pretty spot on with their description of what they contain and theres a 2 column type layout. The character selection menu is cleaner without the popups and has a novel way of scrolling through the characters so it takes less screen space but still keeps all the options avaliable to the player.

    [​IMG]

    This one I though was a good idea because the gametype is a dropdown selection so instead of having a page dedicated to gametypes alone it allows you to select much quicker. Now ofcoarse this makes it harder to add gametypes to the list as the dropdown box could get really large with custom content and whatnot, it also doesnt allow for context help.

    Elmuerte has alot of good points in comparison to other GUI designs though, so I think we should perhaps keep this thread as objective as we can. I sure have my personal opinions but I can put that aside to some extent to view each GUI and design for what its worth.

    Acouple of problems I have noted down on the UT3 GUI is the lack of sound when directly clickin an item vs the horrible donk donk when scrolling. So it feels like it was made to be used with a keyboard or analog stick or something more than over a mouse. It is a good menu and certainly has potential but I think the lack of options is what gets most people annoyed over it. It doesnt really have a huge amount of extra clicks over the 2k4 menu and if you want to talk clicks 2k3's menu is much better in that respect.

    I think having a bar with smaller text and expanding subpages like the webadmin might be a good idea, also using 2 columns as much as possible and trying to unify things to sliders or combos where possible instead of a mixture of the two. One thing I would suggest is perhaps a slider like the cnc3 one which allows the value to be shown in an edit box rather than a numerical value.

    Welp thats about all I got so far, I'll install acouple of other games which I'll take screenies of for comparison :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  15. Grogan

    Grogan New Member

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    Well, I have to say I'm no dummy with respect to computers and can usually figure out any piece of software in short order, but it was about two weeks before I found the mutators like instagib. Maybe I'm too old for these concepts but I thought they didn't have them in instant action mode (I knew there were instagib servers). It was because I had to be in a certain place in the menu system to see the mutators menu down at the bottom. My eyes just didn't go down there. Now that I know where everything is I couldn't care less about the layout, but initially that menu system failed on me. I guess my mind just didn't work that way.

    I don't like that certain settings are forgotten every time you run the game. Every time I start UT3 I have to set up my matches... difficulty level, number of bots (I just go into the bots menu and press accept to load my custom bot choices, which are fortunately saved), mutators (I mostly play instagib) etc.

    But what bugs my ass the most, is the extreme delay at switching from game to main menu. It's about 8 to 10 seconds for me.
     
  16. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    That weird thing annoys me too. It's weird and not very consistent with the other menu pages. I never liked that fisheye stuff

    I have mixed feelings about that. Sometimes I want it to remember stuff, and other times I prefer it forgets stuff.
     
  17. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    That should be alittle better now hey? You can remove the quote :p
     
  18. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

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    Did too, in an earlier post but anyway.
    Then we agree, as long as it's done in a totally revamped UI where I don't have to look in sub-menus under the advanced tabs, chase accept and OK buttons all over the screen and answer yes to "are you sure?" 3 times before a setting sticks.:rolleyes:

    You are right, the 2k4 UI could be improved by tightening things up and make room for the stuff that's in the sub-menus directly under the main tabs. That's what I think they should have done in the first place.
     
  19. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

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    The UT2004 menu wasn't that great, but the UT3 menu is worse. Patches are bringing UT3's menu up to speed. 'Nuff said.

    Blizzard games and Steam have great UIs, just play one of the games there to see good UIs in action.
     
  20. fuegerstef

    fuegerstef New Member

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    Funny thing is your pathetic fanboi-behaviour makes a lot of others laugh too. :lol:
     

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