Unreal Tournament 3 And The New Lazarus Effect

[Axon.Gorge]

Reason I dont play online, even with patch 2 and titan pack release... I cant find any servers running my mutators no serious, I enjoy em

This has got to do something for the morale of the whole fanbase for so long now we've been listening to the same complaints over and over. So like 2k4, its another breath of fresh air until people find new things.

I really do get the impression some people cant just enjoy something, they are always too busy analyzing it and being a critic. Sure thats not always a bad thing only when its in excess and they keep at it, atleast with a review I can stop reading, the forums I have to pay attention and dodge those posts.

 

[JaFO]

Not exactly difficult to get a '2000%' increase if you did zero marketing at launch to begin with.
Free stuff is always good advertising.

Full access to a product even for a limited amount of time is a real effective method of beating the day-1 piracy that most games suffer as lots of people appear to be unable to judge a game on a demo.

I just wonder how many people will actually continue to play the game once the 'free' time is done.

btw : I hope they keep do remove Steam as the last thing this game needs is even more DRM.
And given Epic's major 'oops' with the pc-version of GoW one really has to wonder when Valve falls victim to such a thing.

 

[Dark Pulse]

btw : I hope they keep do remove Steam as the last thing this game needs is even more DRM.

And JaFO once again sees only the downsides of Steam, as opposed to the upsides as well.

PS: "Even more" would imply that it had DRM in the first place. Which it didn't. The game didn't even check for the DVD after installation - UT removed its CD check in 432, 2k3 in 2225, and 2k4 in 3204. This was the first UT you could install the game, pull the DVD out, and simply play.

 

[shoptroll]

I just wonder how many people will actually continue to play the game once the 'free' time is done.

Steam stats say over 1,000 peak today which is 4 days after the free time is over. I'd say that's an improvement.

 

[Unregistered]

Well I buyed UT3 after i've seen that the game runs on my computers with very low details after the free weekend. Now i want to thank steam for the free weekend so i could buy one of my favorite games ever.

 

[Axon.Gorge]

Personally I think UT3 has the advantage over Valves steam games because there are boxed copies out there that dont require steam. If you want it on steam thats all good as well so there are more methods of purchase where Valves games require steam anyway you look at it.

Im all for more steam integration as long as it doesnt get to the point where I will be required to get a steam only copy to play. Having that choice there is something Valve or Epic might not have considered a bonus in making this decision.

The one thing that gets to me about steam (I can handle game related ads because its what I want to see) is this new wave of live+steam games. If youre going to use steam why not use it? Do we really need to limit games, I dont really care who holds onto my stats as long as I can get a local copy of saves.

 

[JaFO]

And JaFO once again sees only the downsides of Steam, as opposed to the upsides as well.

Please explain those 'upsides' ... 'cause all I see is a 'service' that publishers/developers can use to disable access to software after sale (never mind that it is impossible to buy a 'used' game ... )

PS: "Even more" would imply that it had DRM in the first place. Which it didn't.
..

but now the Steam-version does have DRM which allows Epic/Valve to disable your precious game (something which is impossible with a mere cd-check ... )
that's not exactly an improvement for the game, is it ?

 

[hal]

Disable your game? That's kind of a stretch, isn't it?

 

[IronMonkey]

Disable your game? That's kind of a stretch, isn't it?

I cannot speak as to how UT3 has been implemented with respect to Steam (the current binding may be too weak to support such functions) but Valve has certainly disabled other legitimately purchased games.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I cannot speak as to how UT3 has been implemented with respect to Steam (the current binding may be too weak to support such functions) but Valve has certainly disabled other legitimately purchased games.

Under what circumstances? I keep seeing people say this (in fact, it's JaFO's favorite straw man), but I've yet to hear of anyone losing access to their game illegitimately. I've heard of full account bans (which is a far cry from disabling a single game), but I think general common sense law applies here: don't be a moron and you won't have a problem.

I've had Steam since HL2 came out, and, though it had a bumpy start, I've never had any major or severe problems with it. I'm happy to admit that it's easily the best digital distribution platform that has ever been made.

 

[evilmrfrank]

I agree with Brizz, although I did have some major issues with it that made me lose my first account Still my favorite program like this

 

[IronMonkey]

Clearly still in denial

Under what circumstances? I keep seeing people say this (in fact, it's JaFO's favorite straw man), but I've yet to hear of anyone losing access to their game illegitimately. I've heard of full account bans (which is a far cry from disabling a single game),

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...out-user-accounts-for-incorrect-territory.ars

And I know that you have read that link (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=183265&page=8#145) so please don't come over all innocent.

Despite the title of the article, if you read the detailed references you will see that it is individual games being locked out. In any event, losing access to a game is a subset of losing a whole account so I don't really see why you are making this distinction unless you are indulging in your debating club tricks again.

but I think general common sense law applies here: don't be a moron and you won't have a problem.

And you accuse JaFo of indulging in strawmen?

I'm happy to admit that it's easily the best digital distribution platform that has ever been made.

I'm glad that you are happy to admit that. I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion but it's good that you are happy.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...out-user-accounts-for-incorrect-territory.ars

And I know that you have read that link (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=183265&page=8#145) so please don't come over all innocent.

Despite the title of the article, if you read the detailed references you will see that it is individual games being locked out. In any event, losing access to a game is a subset of losing a whole account so I don't really see why you are making this distinction unless you are indulging in your debating club tricks again.

Be nice if you recalled that I wrote "illegitimately" in my last post Valve can decide what they want to do with their own games. The article you linked to conveniently left out the fact that people in North America were buying Thai versions of the game, and it was those CD Keys that were deactivated. This wasn't a case of "bought over Steam, deactivated over Steam", so it'd be preferable if you provided an example of that, and, even better, a third party (read: non-Valve) game.

And you accuse JaFo of indulging in strawmen?

Fair arguments are the new straw men! Fact of the matter is, even taking into account your above link, the same rule applies. Buying outside your territory = being a moron in this case.

 

[Dark Pulse]

You people do realize that even if it's locked out on Steam for some reason or another, that you can simply install and use the retail version, right? Epic's not going to just drop the retail version. In fact, the 2.1 Patch Betas are only installable on retail copies right now - there's no Steam version of the betas.

Unless you're some smacktard, the chances are virtually zero that your games would be locked out.

 

[IronMonkey]

f you recalled that I wrote "illegitimately" in my last post

We may have to differ on our definition of "illegitimately" - If I buy a PC game at a foreign airport to use up the last of my foreign currency and bring it home, I do not regard that as an illegitimately obtained game.

Unless, of course, you think that region coding for PC games is a good idea?

This wasn't a case of "bought over Steam, deactivated over Steam",so it'd be preferable if you provided an example of that, and, even better, a third party (read: non-Valve) game.

Inventing a case for me to answer? Good try.

I'd like you to read the 20th March post of mine that you quoted. I explicitly said that I did not know how Steam's deactivation functions would interact with UT3. I even speculated that the binding of UT3 to Steam might be too weak to support deactivation. I am most certainly not claiming that UT3 can be deactivated by Valve. I (and I suspect most others) simply do not know what Valve's capabilities are in that respect (but my suspicion is that they are weak and at best only equivalent to or even the same as Epic's key banning capabilities)

Buying outside your territory = being a moron in this case.

Care to tell us which of these people are morons?

I know of several people in GB that bought L4D from US retailers or through friends in the US and none of them have experienced anything like that

.

 

[IronMonkey]

virtually zero

Is that the same as actually zero? Or, just that you think it won't happen to you?

 

[Northrawn]

Buying outside your territory = being a moron in this case.

Because the game (UT-GOTY) is not sold in my region?

 

[Sir_Brizz]

We may have to differ on our definition of "illegitimately" - If I buy a PC game at a foreign airport to use up the last of my foreign currency and bring it home, I do not regard that as an illegitimately obtained game.

Unless, of course, you think that region coding for PC games is a good idea?

I think it's the company's right to market and sell a game however they want. If you don't like how that game is sold, don't buy it. It has nothing to do with Steam directly. It's just as likely they use SecuROM and do region locking.

Inventing a case for me to answer? Good try.

I'd like you to read the 20th March post of mine that you quoted. I explicitly said that I did not know how Steam's deactivation functions would interact with UT3. I even speculated that the binding of UT3 to Steam might be too weak to support deactivation. I am most certainly not claiming that UT3 can be deactivated by Valve. I (and I suspect most others) simply do not know what Valve's capabilities are in that respect (but my suspicion is that they are weak and at best only equivalent to or even the same as Epic's key banning capabilities)

I'm just pointing out that buying a game at retail and activating it on Steam is not the same thing as buying it on Steam. If a company uses Steam for their DRM and lock out certain regions, that is their prerogative. It would be good customer service to allow an "upgrade" to a legitimate version, though.

If you have a case where someone lost their game that was bought through Steam (you know, what the majority of Steam users do), that would be helpful in making your point. If you're just whining about how Valve sold one of their games, that's pretty much picking nits. It would be Epic's decision when and if someone who had UT3 on Steam would have their access to that game taken away, but other than this one example, I can't seem to find anything else about any other game on Steam ever being taken from someone's account.

Care to tell us which of these people are morons?

The ones that should have found out if buying a game from Thailand and using it in the US was legitimate. It should have raised red flags at the time, anyway, given the base price.

 

[IronMonkey]

I think ... bluster ...

I see that you now agree with my original point (other than our differing interpretations of "legitimate purchase").

To recap:

I cannot speak as to how UT3 has been implemented with respect to Steam...Valve has certainly disabled other legitimately purchased games.

...I keep seeing people say this ...but I've yet to hear of anyone losing access to their game illegitimately. I've heard of full account bans (which is a far cry from disabling a single game)

and finally (my emphasis),

... but other than this one example, I can't seem to find anything else about any other game on Steam ever being taken from someone's account...

I only need one example for my point to stand. Valve has the capability to disable games within an account. Legitimate or illegitimate doesn't matter (and in the cited example, the games were originally accepted by Steam), the argument is about capability.

Now, since it is entirely consistent with my original point, true and also for some reason important to you, I will agree that the evidence only extends to Valve-published games. There is no evidence of Valve having disabled a game through Steam where that game is published by a third-party.

And again, for the avoidance of doubt, I make no claims with respect to Valve's ability to disable copies of UT3 that have been imported (if that is the term?) into Steam. I simply do not know what capability exists in the current UT3/Steam implementation (but my guess would be that it is quite limited i.e. Valve probably cannot disable UT3 without disabling the whole account).

Since you have now agreed with me regarding my original point, I do not propose to continue this discussion. Simply cannot be arsed to find out why you think region coding for PC games should be defended or why you seem to know so many people from the UK that are morons.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

What have I agreed with? I said "I've yet to hear of anyone losing access to their game illegitimately.".

Sorry, but you've yet to provide an example of that. So far your point only extends to Valve games sold at retail in third world countries being activated outside of their core market. In fact, you can't even verify that, if the game was originally activated from that region and then moved to another region that it would be disabled. Your case scenario is so minuscule. That hardly qualifies as a valid point to me.