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U.S. Gun Laws

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Derek, Feb 4, 2000.

  1. Derek

    Derek New Member

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    Lets say in FL, can an 18-21 year old get his hands on a Steyr Aug/M-16/FA-MAS?

    Oh, and one other question, are machine guns obtained always "2nd hand" or used, ot can they be obtained "factory fresh"?

    [This message has been edited by Derek (edited 02-05-2000).]
     
  2. Corin

    Corin New Member

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    In California, you must be 18 to PURCHASE a rifle or shotgun. BB, pellet and paintball guns are not cosidered firearms, even such that discharge at 1000 fps, pretty damned fast for a BB gun.

    To purchase a pistol you must be 21 AND you have to get a permit/background check. All felonies will disqualify you from legally owning a handgun, as well as some misdemeanors. I am also pretty sure that frquency and the amount of police/court action will disqualify you, like being drunk in public 6 or 7 times. In addition to the permit/background check, there is a 15 day waiting period(I think it may have been raised to 30 days, and I have heard that their is a move to make it 90.)

    Also, a child may shoot a gun if he is properly learned gun safety and maintenance, he may not own it, but may use it, i.e. It is his parents gun but he may use it while being supervised by a legal owner and must have permission. I am not sure but I have heard that the minimum age is 14 for this.

    If I am wrong please correct me. I am too lazy to go out and see myself.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Derek, if you mean the semiautomatic clones then yes. If you mean the full automatic assault rifles, then yes. I'm not positive on the minimum age requirement, you'd have to check FL laws.

    Expect to pay $3400 to $4200 for a semiautomatic Steyr AUG (depending on options and stock color), $700 to $2500 for a semiautomatic AR-15 (again, depending on options and whether it's pre or post-ban), and upwards of $8000 for an original semiautomatic FAMAS. I even saw a semi SIG-551 on the ad boards recently. Only $10,000.

    For full auto specimens, Steyr AUG's fetch around $7000 to $8000, M-16's around $4000 to $8000 (depending on model), and I don't think there are any transferable FAMAS rifles out there. Pre and post dealer samples maybe, but they'll be super expensive too. Probably at least $10,000.

    And yes, machine guns are available new in the box, if the original owner kept it that way. Remember, NO machine guns manufactured after May 1986 can be owned by civilians without an FFL (Federal Firearms License, equates to a dealer's license). That means unless you're a dealer, forget about owning a real HK UMP-45. Sorry.

    Also remember though that the only part of the gun that's registered is the receiver. That means that if you shoot 120,000 rounds through your M-16, all you need is a new barrel (and maybe a few internal components) and you're good to go. Guns can be refinished and restored to look brand new. Some highly skilled manufacturers can even take a torch cut receiver and WELD IT BACK TOGETHER to form an operational firearm. Now THAT is a feat of engineering.

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    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Derek, if you mean the semiautomatic clones then yes. If you mean the full automatic assault rifles, then yes. I'm not positive on the minimum age requirement, you'd have to check FL laws.

    Expect to pay $3400 to $4200 for a semiautomatic Steyr AUG (depending on options and stock color), $700 to $2500 for a semiautomatic AR-15 (again, depending on options and whether it's pre or post-ban), and upwards of $8000 for an original semiautomatic FAMAS. I even saw a semi SIG-551 on the ad boards recently. Only $10,000.

    For full auto specimens, Steyr AUG's fetch around $7000 to $8000, M-16's around $4000 to $8000 (depending on model), and I don't think there are any transferable FAMAS rifles out there. Pre and post dealer samples maybe, but they'll be super expensive too. Probably at least $10,000.

    And yes, machine guns are available new in the box, if the original owner kept it that way. Remember, NO machine guns manufactured after May 1986 can be owned by civilians without an FFL (Federal Firearms License, equates to a dealer's license). That means unless you're a dealer, forget about owning a real HK UMP-45. Sorry.

    Also remember though that the only part of the gun that's registered is the receiver. That means that if you shoot 120,000 rounds through your M-16, all you need is a new barrel (and maybe a few internal components) and you're good to go. Guns can be refinished and restored to look brand new. Some highly skilled manufacturers can even take a torch cut receiver and WELD IT BACK TOGETHER to form an operational firearm. Now THAT is a feat of engineering.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  5. Derek

    Derek New Member

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    Thanks Gryphon, that was really helpful.

    So, there are no civilians with legally owned assault rifles that were made after 1986?

    There is no way at all for an average Joe to legally own a ump-45?

    That doesn't seem like a good thing. In 20 years, everyone will still have to be recycling the same pre-1986 weapons?
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Derek, yeah, basically that's the gist of it. But remember, the price and procedure required to obtain an NFA weapon usually prevents Joe Average from getting one. There are many NFA firearms out there that are still new in the box, unfired. Many people buy NFA firearms as investments and never take them to the range. Personally I think that's a travesty, to have a gun and never shoot it.

    Also remember that it's ONLY machine guns that are not manufacturable for civilians now. DD's can still be made, and suppressors, SBR's, SBS's, and AOW's can even be made by the civilians themselves so long as they submit their Form 1 to the ATF. Yes, that means YOU, if you're of legal age and live in a state that allows posession, can file a Form 1 with transfer tax, fingerprints, etc. and when it's approved, make your own silencer. LEGALLY.

    The route a lot of people are taking now, and this is usually reserved for people with machine work experience and a hard-core affection for guns, is to become a type 02 FFL/type 07 SOT (Special Occupational Tax), which is a manufacturer of NFA weapons (except DD's). You can make all the machine guns you want, legally. Sell them to police departments for profit. Buy post-samples like the UMP-45 if you have a letter from your police department requesting a demo of it. But this route is usually VERY expensive (the licenses are on the order of several thousand a year IIRC), and you have to be zoned properly, ie. no making MAC-10's in your garage.

    Explore Tom Bowers' site above, I've learned almost everything I know about US gun laws simply by reading it and participating on the discussion boards.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Derek, yeah, basically that's the gist of it. But remember, the price and procedure required to obtain an NFA weapon usually prevents Joe Average from getting one. There are many NFA firearms out there that are still new in the box, unfired. Many people buy NFA firearms as investments and never take them to the range. Personally I think that's a travesty, to have a gun and never shoot it.

    Also remember that it's ONLY machine guns that are not manufacturable for civilians now. DD's can still be made, and suppressors, SBR's, SBS's, and AOW's can even be made by the civilians themselves so long as they submit their Form 1 to the ATF. Yes, that means YOU, if you're of legal age and live in a state that allows posession, can file a Form 1 with transfer tax, fingerprints, etc. and when it's approved, make your own silencer. LEGALLY.

    The route a lot of people are taking now, and this is usually reserved for people with machine work experience and a hard-core affection for guns, is to become a type 02 FFL/type 07 SOT (Special Occupational Tax), which is a manufacturer of NFA weapons (except DD's). You can make all the machine guns you want, legally. Sell them to police departments for profit. Buy post-samples like the UMP-45 if you have a letter from your police department requesting a demo of it. But this route is usually VERY expensive (the licenses are on the order of several thousand a year IIRC), and you have to be zoned properly, ie. no making MAC-10's in your garage.

    Explore Tom Bowers' site above, I've learned almost everything I know about US gun laws simply by reading it and participating on the discussion boards.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  8. Repairman_Jack

    Repairman_Jack New Member

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    I built a Sten Mark 2 about three years ago, just to see if I could actually do it. After it was completed I dissassembled it and demilled the reciever (ATF has NO sense of history!). If I had wanted to go through the cost and paperwork to get my Class II I could have kept it quite legally.
    During WWII it was calculated that the Sten Mark 1 cost on the average less then $7.00 US to manufacture.

    ------------------
    SEZ
    Jon
    --I don't kill people, I make the things killers use, kill better--
     
  9. Derek

    Derek New Member

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    How exactly do you go about making a MAC-10?

    You mean from a kit right?
     
  10. Repairman_Jack

    Repairman_Jack New Member

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    I cheat, I'm a machinist.

    ------------------
    SEZ
    Jon
    --I don't kill people, I make the things killers use, kill better--
     
  11. INF_Neo

    INF_Neo Infiltration Sound Engineer

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    Can you build me a HK G11 and send it via air mail?
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    MAC's can be made from the commonly available MAC frame flats. Basically they're the lower receiver in a flattened form, they have to be bent up to form the lower receiver and drilled for selector holes, mag well, etc. Then you need a parts set to complete it (all internals, upper receiver, barrel, etc.). Not an easy task for Joe Average to do.

    My specialty is AR-15's. I can build one from scratch assuming no machine work is involved. FN-FAL's are also good kit guns to put together, although I've never built one.

    Hey Repairman_Jack, why you be dissin the Krinkov? That's not an ugly AK!

    [​IMG]

    THAT'S an ugly AK! /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    MAC's can be made from the commonly available MAC frame flats. Basically they're the lower receiver in a flattened form, they have to be bent up to form the lower receiver and drilled for selector holes, mag well, etc. Then you need a parts set to complete it (all internals, upper receiver, barrel, etc.). Not an easy task for Joe Average to do.

    My specialty is AR-15's. I can build one from scratch assuming no machine work is involved. FN-FAL's are also good kit guns to put together, although I've never built one.

    Hey Repairman_Jack, why you be dissin the Krinkov? That's not an ugly AK!

    [​IMG]

    THAT'S an ugly AK! /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  14. Derek

    Derek New Member

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    I had no idea you could just build "name brand" guns from kits.

    Damn, as soon as I get back to the U.S. I have to get started on the paperwork.
     
  15. Repairman_Jack

    Repairman_Jack New Member

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    AR-15s are a breeze, lots of documention, easy to get bits and pieces. FN_FALs aren't bad either. Sure Neo, get an End-User permit first then we'll talk [​IMG]

    ------------------
    SEZ
    Jon
    --I don't kill people, I make killing people better--
     
  16. Toysrme

    Toysrme I love college... UA ROCKS

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    juz 1 comment out of alot i could make=)

    dinkkly little .22?
    i'll bet anyamout of money that moree pl havee been shot in the us from .22 and .25 caliber pistols and rifles than any other combined.

    notonly that a .22 long will go 5-miles if you get the angle jsut right using the right gun=)

    (and those itty bitty hollowpts and little buggers=)

    not nearly as affective as alarger round. but
    if u had a .22 cal 5*7 i'll bet youd hold 40 fricken rounds of .22short =)
    (that could be neat /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif
     
  17. Toysrme

    Toysrme I love college... UA ROCKS

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    oh ya btw.
    you can't legaly purchase a gun in alaba unless 18
    but you can own one at 11(inherited) i know my grandfather left me sevrial good remington semi 12gauge shotguns.

    a neat fact most of yall don't know=)
    toyz has a licence to carry any gun in the US excluding military bases and the like....... and i'm 16 1/2

    (it's neat i was deputized on the spot with my grandfather b4 he passed on. some ppl we're cutting down his trees(owned about 500 acres, mostly swamp. so him(also deputy)and the sherrif n me go out there to throw them off=) long story shot i got deputized and we got to kick them off n sue them
    it was great=)
    (that was when i was 15)
    now don't ask me if it's legal or not but it happened=)
    (i've got the papers in a safe deposite box)
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Uh, Toys, I think there's a big difference between being deputized and being a LEO. Not to rain on your parade, but if I were you I wouldn't try carrying based on deputization. Maybe 40 years ago when you could leave your doors unlocked, but this modern mentality of kids shooting up schools will quash that real quick.

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    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Uh, Toys, I think there's a big difference between being deputized and being a LEO. Not to rain on your parade, but if I were you I wouldn't try carrying based on deputization. Maybe 40 years ago when you could leave your doors unlocked, but this modern mentality of kids shooting up schools will quash that real quick.

    ------------------
    Gryphon/JTF2
    Striving for Excellence in Small Arms Data

    =JTF2= Infiltration Server Info
     
  20. Toysrme

    Toysrme I love college... UA ROCKS

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    heh no joke.
     

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