Trusted Platform Module == End of Game Piracy?
- Thread starter hyrulian
- Start date
-
Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.
If we don't move forward with technologies then whats the point? the gaming industry has always pushed for bigger and better engines. if studios sat on their hands and used the same engine over and over again we would still be stuck with quake 3 engine based games.
Change = Growth
Still people are less likely to attempt emulating hardware as it is more difficult than just downloading an executable file. I'm sure its not hard but it might help
Not a chance this will work. All it takes is a single success in cracking the security, and it will be a generalized solution in an easy-to-use form within hours. Announcements like this just make the industries making them look foolish.
Maybe they hope this will keep them from losing -what was the amount, exactly? Two billion dollars?
The "news stories" lately have been pretty idiotic.
Yes, but you cannot outgrow what the end user has to work with and expect your game to do well, Crysis is an excellent example of this sort of overreaching, its requirements are just silly! and it looks like pants if you cannot max it or get clouse to maxing it.
You have to strike a balance between making it look good on the hardware most people have, and also making it look really good for the hardcore gamers who have build themselves a nice rig, thats the sweet spot, thats where you want to be, going any further than that will only limit your market share to the very few people who have build themselves an awesome gaming rig, and i think that's estimated to be something like 10 - 15% of gamers, not a big share of the market at all.
Besides that, at this point i really think the industry could benifit from holding back on the graphics, and getting back in touch with what makes games good, it seems far too many resources are wasted trying to look better than the competition, instead of playing better than the competition, and far to many games thease days are just pretty screenshot generators, not something you would actually care to play more than once..
But this is getting a bit off topic.
I never said devs shouldn't push game tech but Crytek made poor design decisions with Crysis which hindered performance. There are polys where a normal map would have sufficed in many areas of the game.
COD4 and Source are just examples of tech that pushes hardware pretty well and runs great. I think that getting games to run on many systems like those two titles is a perfect place to target your low end and then for people with the hardware have options to crank things up to the detail in Bioshock or Crysis. I think that if you don't attend to majority while pushing hardware then expect low sales.
If they're succesful they're going to be in for a bad surprise. For one real-world sales won't meet their expectations. I also predict people will slowly get disinterested in games as a whole because what they have in their hands doesn't feel like it belongs to them.
Trusted Computing will only drive gamers to consoles.
This is because trusted computing is intrusive. Trusted computing will only work when the complete environment is "trusted". This effectively means that a "trusted" application will not run as long as there are "untrusted" programs running. This means that you can not play your game with the latest firefox running in the back ground. This means that you can no longer play your game when you installed the latest service pack for the OS (because your "trusted" game isn't trusted by the latest service pack). This means you are not allowed to alt-tab when the game is running (this is an untrusted operation). This means you have to disconnect and uninstall the drivers for your webcam because its not trusted. These are just a couple of cases where trusted computing will prevent you from enjoying your game.
People with Windows Vista already encounter how great copy protection schemes are. A lot of game do not work on Windows Vista because of the copy protection. In pretty much all cases you can get the game working by using the cracked executable that no longer has the copyprotection.
Trusted computing will decrease piracy of PC games. But only because people will abandon PC gaming.
This is because trusted computing is intrusive. Trusted computing will only work when the complete environment is "trusted". This effectively means that a "trusted" application will not run as long as there are "untrusted" programs running. This means that you can not play your game with the latest firefox running in the back ground. This means that you can no longer play your game when you installed the latest service pack for the OS (because your "trusted" game isn't trusted by the latest service pack). This means you are not allowed to alt-tab when the game is running (this is an untrusted operation). This means you have to disconnect and uninstall the drivers for your webcam because its not trusted. These are just a couple of cases where trusted computing will prevent you from enjoying your game.
People with Windows Vista already encounter how great copy protection schemes are. A lot of game do not work on Windows Vista because of the copy protection. In pretty much all cases you can get the game working by using the cracked executable that no longer has the copyprotection.
Trusted computing will decrease piracy of PC games. But only because people will abandon PC gaming.
??
That's under the strictest definition of trusted platforms.
Vista has problems with copyprotection because the key ones (such as starforce) create drivers/rootkits which the kernel rejects because it... basically... thinks it's a virus. That's why old versions of Norton and McAfee don't work on Vista
Microsoft doesn't want Norton and McAfee broken... heck Microsoft even gives them source code for Windows to help in development (hence the infamous Windows 2000 leak).There are ways of protecting your data... a TPM is not the way to do it.
Sure program will know EXACTLY what computer it's on... however that DVD-ROM is read only (hence ROM) and therefore cannot tell how many TPMs it's been registered to.
Your only option in that case is online activation... which -- yea... is kinda nothing new.
TPM would be a great asset to bitlocker... not exactly a good asset to copyprotection. (Unless games are distributed on a media with a writable portion for feedback)
Last edited:
Uh, HELLO? You haven't "owned" computer games for years now. Licenses? Remember? You know those boxes with the ten tons of text everyone clicks through? They're contracts that you agree to that say basically that you do not own the game, you are given a license to use it. Hell, UT way back in 1999 may say that (I don't remember, I installed it years ago now.)
If it doesn't "feel like" it belongs to you, it's because it hasn't belonged to you for years now.
Well, 70% of all people also don't know all the details about, say, cars and yet they usually make an informed decision when buying one. Because they know someone in the family who does, and since they trust that person, ask them for advice. They'll also go to more than one salesperson to find out what all of them have to say, and most importantly, if they all say the same.
I realize that it's easier to buy a computer than it is to buy a car, but the principles still are the same.
The key is: Don't surrender before the fight has even really begun.
You, that you're "informed", should put this issue up for discussion sometime at the lunch table to tell those you know. In fact, do it today.
Perhaps you own a store selling PCs... inform the customers. Or you're the "go-to" guy for all your relatives. Tell them what "trusted computing" really is about. Raise their awareness. They don't even have to understand everything. Knowing that there's a problem so that they don't hastily buy stuff is enough. If you're setting up a system for your mom, put some free OS on it.
Tell her that some of the companies she's supposed to trust have been found guilty numerous times of various crimes both in US and EU courts.
Tell her that she can trust her PC. Because she trusts you and you trust the OS and software you put up there.
Perhaps next time she'll get a word document she, Jane Bloe, will be the one asking not to be sent crap like that since she's perfectly happy with her PC and free software and doesn't really see a reason to buy Word just for that one file.
Last edited:
I see a day where we buy black market hardware to avoid TPM. Is that what the industry really wants?
Vista has problems with copyprotection because the key ones (such as starforce) create drivers/rootkits which the kernel rejects because it... basically... thinks it's a virus. That's why old versions of Norton and McAfee don't work on Vista
FYI, starforce works in Vista. Games using starforce can be patched to work in newer Windows version by the starforce company.
Various SafeDisc and SecuROM versions do not work in Vista. Games using these versions will never work unless the company will release a patch.
TPM is not a way to project your data, it was never intended to be like that. It was intended to provide a trusted executing environment. Then again, you don't need that **** if the OS provides proper security and authorization mechanisms and a good sandbox environment.
TPM is a complete infrastructure. To provide a solid infrastructure either everything has a trust relation or there is simply no trust at all. In the latter case an application/hardware that requires trust will simply not execute/participate.
TPM has nothing to do with identifying individual computers. There is no need for that kind of identification.
All that will happen is some motherboards WONT have this on them, then you WONT be able to play certain games and those games will fail.
Movies and Music have gotten the picture finally and started releasing their **** as downloads and adapted to the piracy they can't stop, and are doing a ok job afaik, not to sure about the music and movies but I can watch almost every TV show I miss on official sites now.
World of Warcraft is all the game devs need to look at... 2 60$ games and 3+ years of 15$ a month payments for a game that doesn't even really get past a 7.5 rating and doesn't bring near the quality of most good single player games without hardly any of the quality of good MP games, yet makes billions.
Movies and Music have gotten the picture finally and started releasing their **** as downloads and adapted to the piracy they can't stop, and are doing a ok job afaik, not to sure about the music and movies but I can watch almost every TV show I miss on official sites now.
World of Warcraft is all the game devs need to look at... 2 60$ games and 3+ years of 15$ a month payments for a game that doesn't even really get past a 7.5 rating and doesn't bring near the quality of most good single player games without hardly any of the quality of good MP games, yet makes billions.
Unless Intel and nVDIDIA decides to support it and call it a day
Thankfully those two are trying to b*tchslap each other day by day so even if one decides to adapt these technologies then the other won't so Trusted Computing can go back to hell where it came from and belongs
Unless Windows 7 will require one of these chips to run on your computer. Well it wouldn't be a big surprise. Let's just curse Microsoft as all the time, shan't we
Last edited:
Speaking of b1tchslapping, they must do it like this (and love every bit of it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa9lurbp7ek&fmt=18
And if I must go on topic, I hope that TPM will be optional (and eventually useless) just like AGEIA's PhysX cards.
Steyr
I posted in the RO-me thread
and all I got was
a pink username!
piracy has been, and always will be. people need to learn to live with it. They need to realize that most people who pirate games wouldn't pay for the game even if piracy wasn't an option. And when people pirate games, and actually like them, they will oftentimes go out and buy that game. So really, in many cases, they're making potential sales, not losing them. It's been shown using the RIAA website data that as soon as napster came out and people started pirating music, sales actually went UP. The RIAA was raking in MORE money after napster and music piracy than they were before. Thats cause people would download music from artists they had never heard about before, and then like them and go buy the CDs. 90% of the time people download **** illegally, they aren't stealing it, they're sampling it. Seeing if it's any good. And if it is, they will oftentimes go out and buy it.
So really, I think companies need to embrace piracy. Hell, it's a great ****ing marketing strategy. And as long as there are some advantages to buying the game (like online play) I think they could actually make money by simply loosening up on these stupid f*cking draconian anti-piracy measures <cough>BIOSHOCK</cough> and instead focus on making good games.
So really, I think companies need to embrace piracy. Hell, it's a great ****ing marketing strategy. And as long as there are some advantages to buying the game (like online play) I think they could actually make money by simply loosening up on these stupid f*cking draconian anti-piracy measures <cough>BIOSHOCK</cough> and instead focus on making good games.
The annoying thing is that if in these TPM's dont work or they go unsupported its going to cause a bigger problem for PC gaming! See if I get nostalgic 10yrs from now and try to boot a game that requires a TPM but TPM's are all but gone thats going to cause a hole in the history of PC gaming much like online activation servers going down and the games never being fully unlocked. So in one way crackers are doing their part for the preservation of history, sure thats not an excuse for piracy but hey the people actually making these games arnt doing anything to help in that respect.
The other problem is TPM's catching ahold and people who want to stand on morals (much like some are doing on consoles) and are left with only a small portion of titles to choose from. Then we'll get developers blaming pirates and even stricter TPM rules get put in place even though it boils down to the market itself.
I see from articles like the wikipedia's top selling games lists that game sales on a whole are getting lower in total numbers (some still stand out) but they are breaking records mostly in burst sales numbers and total $ of games sold. So you limit yourself to a market by first system requirements then by cost of games which limit how many different games people can buy, with more games perhaps coming out or just adding to the huge catalog already this doesnt make much sense.
So if you want to sell more copies perhaps raise the quality while keeping the price steady, dont raise the price and offer no more or less quality. There will always be people who wont pay for something either way no matter their tax bracket so yeah all youre doing in the end is hurting the total amount of copies you could sell.
TPM just sounds far to restrictive for people who actually pay for their titles and is going to cause even more compatibility problems for a platform where people like to point that out as a flaw. Not only that but they say compatibility costs them more which is a pro for consoles, if TPM's are in place think about how much it'll cost to support them vs the costs lost from piracy, is it worth it? Sometimes its just worth taking a hit in profits for the sake of the industry and you might want to double check your numbers if you are expecting too much from your products.
The other problem is TPM's catching ahold and people who want to stand on morals (much like some are doing on consoles) and are left with only a small portion of titles to choose from. Then we'll get developers blaming pirates and even stricter TPM rules get put in place even though it boils down to the market itself.
I see from articles like the wikipedia's top selling games lists that game sales on a whole are getting lower in total numbers (some still stand out) but they are breaking records mostly in burst sales numbers and total $ of games sold. So you limit yourself to a market by first system requirements then by cost of games which limit how many different games people can buy, with more games perhaps coming out or just adding to the huge catalog already this doesnt make much sense.
So if you want to sell more copies perhaps raise the quality while keeping the price steady, dont raise the price and offer no more or less quality. There will always be people who wont pay for something either way no matter their tax bracket so yeah all youre doing in the end is hurting the total amount of copies you could sell.
TPM just sounds far to restrictive for people who actually pay for their titles and is going to cause even more compatibility problems for a platform where people like to point that out as a flaw. Not only that but they say compatibility costs them more which is a pro for consoles, if TPM's are in place think about how much it'll cost to support them vs the costs lost from piracy, is it worth it? Sometimes its just worth taking a hit in profits for the sake of the industry and you might want to double check your numbers if you are expecting too much from your products.