This CAN'T be real

[Nukeproof]

I remember reading an article recently where somebody looted a bank by claiming (on the phone) he was a secret agent, working on terror defense.

He kept calling a director of a bank urged him to cooperate for national security, etc. and in the end he got away with several million euros without ever legitimating himself personally.

IIRC this took place in France.

I believe, once you have missed the point of revealing your doubts, people seem to stick into it...

 

[Maxx]

Some ppl always manage to give the word "stupidity" a whole nes dimension

 

[spm1138]

Clearly you get the brightest and the best working the fast food industry.

 

[mat69]

I think you're right Rostam! Yet as I've proved it myself, everything that sounds soooo odd that you can't believe it in the first place ,you will build a defense around you (that could never happen to me --> Milgram), but overall you're just a token of the overall game.

PS.: I'm drunk be nice to me! Out!

 

[Harrm]

No - I'd say 'dumb' defines her quite accurately.

*to Flight of the Valkries music*
Blame the victim! Blame the victim! Blaaaame the viiictiiiiim! Blame the vic-tummm!

Clearly you get the brightest and the best working the fast food industry.

You'd be suprised sometimes. But generally, yep.

--Harrm

PS- Rosdam and Hara are IQ Omega tonight.

 

[Philophobos]

The whole time I was reading this, I was thinking of the stories I heard in my psych classes in college detailing studies that tested how far people would go to obey someone that they perceived as having authority.

The details are a bit fuzzy, but it went something like this:

People in lab coats asked each subject to press some buttons on a console and the subject was told that by doing so a person in the next room over would receive an electrical shock. In reality, the person in the other room was just an actor who was signalled whenever the subject pressed a button. Whenever he was signalled, he would scream as if he were in agony.

And despite hearing agonized screams from the next room over, most of the subjects would press the buttons whenever the person in the lab coat told them to. Whenever someone in normal, everyday clothes asked them to to the same, the subjects were more hesitant.

So no, the people invloved in this story, save possibly Nix, aren't stupid, they're human. And unfortunately, that means that they're easy to manipulate. At least the first woman was able to figure it out after she discovered some of the more outrageous things that were being done. Although, that might be because she was able to remove herself from the situation for a little bit. If she had stayed on the phone the whole time under the constant influence of the perceived authority figure, it may have taken her longer to figure things out.

 

[Harrm]

You're talking about Milgrams' study of obediance, Approx. The only thing was that one of the controls of that experiment was that if the experiment was not performed at a prestigious institution, then it would not have worked. But I guess some peoples' fear of the police is so great they're willing to do anything they are told...

One thing I love about this whole thing, is that the person on the phone took advantage of a critical weakness in corperations today: sameness. Without that element of deindividuation this would have been impossible.

Social terrorism rocks.

--Harrm

 

[Rostam]

I don't entirely agree, Harrm. The experimentor mentioned that there was no danger, yet 65% STILL gave electric shocks after the 'learner' (the one that received the shocks) went silent - suggesting that he already died but they still went on. Hell, I believe 55% gave electric shocks to the learner by pressing a button on the arm of the learner, even after he 'died'.

There are 6 'powers' to reach obedience. Legite (cops, for instance), informal (the command itself reaches obedience: STOP), expert (see commercials), respect, punishment and reward. After the 'learner' started to scream, I believe the amount of people obeying dropped from 99% to 65%. You could argue that those people obeyed because they really did think it was harmless, but stopped after proved otherwise. What made 65% go on? A question still not answered. It's interesting because after the initial screaming of the 'learner' pretty much nobody stops and is fully obedient up to murder, suggesting that only those moved by the 'expert' form of authority stopped and all others continued. Then there is the stanford prison experiment which shows there isn't even a need for authority, people will act the way they believe they are supposed to act.

But yeah, the Milgram experiment only proves 2 things: obedience is a powerful thing, and people suck. I know some other people prefer to finish the sentence (people suck at predicting human behaviour) but I think this is just as true.

 

[ecale3]

i wouldn't mind spanking that bitch.

 

[cracwhore]

*to Flight of the Valkries music*
Blame the victim! Blame the victim! Blaaaame the viiictiiiiim! Blame the vic-tummm!

Wow - I was talking about the 'manager'. You know - the woman that 'forced' the girl to strip because a pretend police officer over the telephone told her to do so. The 'idiot' - if you will.

That's what I get for trusting you to pick up on context clues such as 'Manager' and 'forty-something'. Clearly - you're far too intelligent for your own good.

One thing I love about this whole thing, is that the person on the phone took advantage of a critical weakness in corperations today: sameness. Without that element of deindividuation this would have been impossible.

Grammar, spelling and your ability to make up words aside - I'd say the real problem is - in general - idiocy.

--Harrm

Like that - but on a larger scale.

 

[Rostam]

Don't have the illusion that you are better than anyone else, cracwhore. Would be a real shame to polute the intelligence you have by thinking like that.

 

[ant75]

Actually crac, i think deindividuation is a psychological concept. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it's made up.

 

[OICW]

Haarm; I'm not so sure that particular control that it would have made that much of a difference.

In 1972, at Sydney University (my uni), they ran the Milgram experiment for the last time, since one volunteer after the debriefing was so horrified that he could do such acts to other people that were real to him, he decided to commit suicide. Fortunately for him, he managed to receive counselling before he did it (he was going to jump off the roof of the library).

The people who participated were plain "ordinary" people, many of whom were quite upset afterwards and were greatly relieved to find out that the other person was just an actor. I've seen footage of the 1972 experiment, and one student who delivered the "shock" to the other person who hadn't responded appeared absolutely guilt-racked and frightened. Yet, the power of authority was enough to push him to keep doing it.

I doubt that if it had been done with factory workers or somewhere else, the volunteers would have gone "Shit, it wasn't for real? Fuck that, I wish I had killed him!"

 

[-=]N[=-WWE]

hmm why didnt they just hang up?

 

[ecale3]

because like me they wanted to spank that bitch.

 

[Harrm]

OICW: It is a well-documented control factor in the Milgram experiment. Visit any place that is authorized to carry APA absracts and read over the documents for Milgrams' experiments, there should be a handful of papers written about the prestigious institution effect on experiments.

It should also be noted that most volunteers for these experiments are mid-level wage earners. In theory low-wage earners should be more suspectible to authority, but I have 0 evidance to back that up.

Also in this thread: Cracwhore also proves that he is a moron by not knowing a damn thing about the theory of deindividuation! Sarcasm is not substitute for not doing your research.

Grammar, spelling and your ability to make up words aside - I'd say the real problem is - in general - idiocy.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/deindividuation.htm
http://www.ex.ac.uk/~tpostmes/deindividuation.html

--Harrm

PS- Also, if you dont like the handle, "cracwhore" doesn't rank up real high up there on creativity. So you sir, can suck my left testicle.

http://forum.teamspeak.org/member.php?u=31492

Haha, AnD yOu SpElLeD iT lIkE tHiS.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

When you say bitch are you refering to the 18 year old.

I certainly hope not.

 

[cracwhore]

Yes, I apologize for using the same nick since I was twelve. There are reasons for the name, which I have described on various occasions.

As for Sociologists creating words. Well, I'll tell you what...

Theoretical 'sciences' don't really get much respect from me. If your terms aren't recognized by my good friend 'Oxford' or 'Webster', then they don't exist. Simple as that.

I'm well aware of this so-called 'word'. I simply think Sociology is bullshit. I've taken my fair share of Sociology courses and wasted a pretty penny on all of the text books. I understand that you idiots pronounce Weber's last name as 'Vay-ber'. I get the gist of it. In the end, you're 'studying' what I like to call 'common sense' and yielding no actual results.

One merit of actual sciences is that we learn things and advance as a culture - instead of just inventing new words on the fly to describe everyday occurences that the entire world is quite familiar with.



P.S. Signing your posts still makes you an idiot - even with your ability to fabricate words. See, it's an internet forum. Your name appears above your avatar. This isn't a letter home.

 

[Derelan]

Crac, you're an asshole. I love you.

 

[Philophobos]

Yes, I apologize for using the same nick since I was twelve. There are reasons for the name, which I have described on various occasions.

As for Sociologists creating words. Well, I'll tell you what...

Theoretical 'sciences' don't really get much respect from me. If your terms aren't recognized by my good friend 'Oxford' or 'Webster', then they don't exist. Simple as that.

I'm well aware of this so-called 'word'. I simply think Sociology is bullshit. I've taken my fair share of Sociology courses and wasted a pretty penny on all of the text books. I understand that you idiots pronounce Weber's last name as 'Vay-ber'. I get the gist of it. In the end, you're 'studying' what I like to call 'common sense' and yielding no actual results.

One merit of actual sciences is that we learn things and advance as a culture - instead of just inventing new words on the fly to describe everyday occurences that the entire world is quite familiar with.



P.S. Signing your posts still makes you an idiot - even with your ability to fabricate words. See, it's an internet forum. Your name appears above your avatar. This isn't a letter home.

Do you feel the same way about psychology? I ask because most of what's been discussed here was covered in my psych classes, not my sociology classes.