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The Official UT3 Myths Debunked Thread

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Fuzz, Sep 8, 2009.

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Express your opinion!

  1. UT3 rocks!

    46.7%
  2. I suck!

    4.3%
  3. This poll sucks!

    48.9%
  1. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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  2. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    Polls are optional. The competition is still between UT3 rocks and you suck. The third choice is meta and completely irrelevant.

    Now the critics are turning attention from the topic by merely commenting this thread and the poll instead of actually following the lead. Hating UT3 or Epic is pointless, just like the third option in an ultimate two choice poll.

    I expect people to come to their senses. Either you like UT3 or something is literally wrong with you or your hardware. How many chances have Epic given you to do the right thing?

    Rage quitting people would like to have a "This game sucks" button they can press before they exit to Windows that makes a huge alarm siren go off in the game developers office to alert all workers that they failed to produce a likable product.

    That doesn't serve any useful purpose. Such a button would never be included. People reacting this way either don't have the hardware or the spirit to play an extremely competitive shooter and rather have the old Unreal magic back with an adventurous long any mystical sci-fi with a vast arsenal of obscure weapons and items.

    Once people start hating it seems like reason will never come back into play. This thread is about players that have been wrong for so long they can't even remember what started it all. They have invested too much time and emotion, they can't reset and look upon things from the right angle. All aggression that has been built up out of their own inadequacies, have been a waste. They are wrong and just can't let go.

    This thread owns, because you can't win anymore. Crying in tags won't help either.

    I have seen many more UT3 myths out there today. I'll bring some here, to put this thread back on track. Time to debunk some UT3 myths.

    Something along the line
    If you drive through trenches instead of main highways it's only natural to get stuck.

    Yes, we need a critic's thread where UT3 is defended instead of randomly spoken down to when people can't play it the right way or find the right opponents or the right custom contents because they are looking at the wrong places just assuming that obviously needed things ain't around when they in fact are.
     
  3. Feralidragon

    Feralidragon UT n00b coder

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    Sorry, but you want a healthy discussion and yet you just placed up there 2 options, being one "UT3 rocks" and "I suck", instead of "UT3 rocks", "UT3 is so so" and "UT3 sucks" for example. Yet, you want a good discussion with such poll? LOL :lol:
    Still, I will make my point of view based on what I played, and my little experiments regarding mapping (not coding because mapping showed me all).

    That's a matter of opinion to say it honestly. Personally I prefer much more the UT1 graphics in general over UT3. Imo UT1 graphics are clean and can look very good, yet simple and perhaps more realistic, while in UT3 I really got my eyes hurt. Also, UT99 looks and feels better than UT2004, but I won't lie: I also like a lot UT2004, but still UT1 is the one which fullfills trully my visual, gameplay and modding requirements, and like me, there are many others with this opinion, and I am not an old skooler like many that prefer UT1.
    UT3 went overboard on graphics (too many details where simpler things would look much better, and also it became even less realistic). Also, I won't lie on this one: the effects are indeed much better since they are used more efectivelly visually and not much like fireworks like in UT2004 for example, and I liked a few gameplay/visual elements, as well the vehicles. But the players/bots, maps and the overall postprocessing effects make the game look like sh*t imho, they really hurt anyone's eyes. Those graphics are nice to make movies and such, but for a damn fast action fps game it just is too hurtfull. Also, personally I was expecting much more of this engine at environment physics level (which they advertised so damn much but they didn't aplly in their own game for some reason, and the ones that were there were buggy or simply didn't work at all).
    Also, the gore now is really really lame imo. UT99 has a really good visual gore (it really looks good when you blow someone up there), the same doesn't happen that way in UT2004 (I mean, you can rip only a few body parts and only on certain special conditions, so where's the UT gore feel on that?), and UT3 tried to bring that up again, but the gore seems just like very old meat and ready to give to the dogs, and when they look like meat (since most of the time it doesn't look even like meat), so where's the visual enhancement on that?

    About this one I will only say this: they added features breaking simple tasks as saving properlly and having more control over some basic graphic settings.
    Ok, now some broken basic stuff is fixed, but still UT2004 gave many more options to tweak the graphics, while in UT3 is very damn limited and you can't tweak it properlly from a simple player's view side.
    Basically on each step they made forward, they made 3 steps back, and if you consider that "better than previous games", well then I really don't understand that.

    Like if they had any choice? I mean, DM, CTF, VCTF, TDM and ONS are very popular, so they just basically they kept them.
    But let's see what's wrong in this:
    - They missed also a relative popular gametype: Assault;
    - Their "DM Duel" is badly done. I have much more fun having a duel with the Chaos UT2 in UT2004, and it was a real duel, while in UT3 duel they just made the basic 1on1 match with you in one TEAM and the other in the other TEAM. I mean, teams (red/blue) exactly called like that in a simple DM DUEL? Man, I think that's really lame from the coders to make it like that, since it clearlly wasn't worked out, rather it was just "take this code from team matches, this one from normal DM, complile and... hurrah, we have duel!", then you ask "where's the proper rank system, and they answer: "wut?".
    - Then personally I believe they screwed Onslaught (that is now WarFare in UT3). Although I really liked the core effects and the node effects (those metal things covering them up and they destroying them up when your were attacking them, really, really nice), as well the fact you have to build the Leviathan in certain maps rather than conquer a node to have it, the rest of the gameplay became seriouslly complex and boring relative to the original ONS from UT2004.
    And while you could have a decent ONS match with some players, with WAR you have really to have as many players you can to play it, but maybe that was Epic's point in doing that way.
    - The rest of the gametypes have just the same rules they had in the previous games, just with the current game HUD updated, so the "rules > gameplay" factor doesn't change, only the visuals, feel and speed of the game in general is what leads to different gameplay styles in each game of the series. And as for me UT1 beats every one, since you never got the same fullfilling feeling when making an head shot in UT2004 or UT3, it was never the same thing (so another missing gameplay key in UT3).

    Considering the lack of settings you can apply on the game, something that only happens with low level games and some console games, I think they were thinking on making a console/PC hybrid game. They added the text messages because they simply had no choice. Where they had a choice, they just took out what was "unnecessary", like many settings that could lead to a better performance in certain systems. They just wanted you to have the max hardware possible to play the game, player hardware settings that they don't have to worry about in consoles.

    About that I can't say much, but a game is about fun. Personally I have much more fun defeating human players than godlike bots to get better. Also, I only get better by playing against players, because bots will never have the human factor players have, which I can take advantage at as a player as well. So beating godlike bots just improve your aim and dodging, but in games like CTF, a player with almost perfect aim and dodge can't beat 2 players from the opposite team with a good team work (and I saw this many times in CTF), something that he can with bots (since they don't have the human factor and ideas to actually come up with strategies).

    Perhaps, but although there's is custom content made, actually making it in this engine is painfull and way more complicated to do, and I wouln't be surprised if this sudden new content would stop for a bit once the contest ends.

    Before I tried the game, I heard many negative stuff about the game, but I gave it a try, and guess what: I didn't like it either and I saw many flaws.
    From PC FPS player point of iew, the game lacks settings, speed and gameplay factor, and visually it went way overboard for an FPS game.
    From a mapper point of view, their editor simply sucks (while in the last versions of the editor you had the textures, actors, meshes divided, you have now a soup of them, and to see one type, you have to uncheck the rest of the stuff to see, then the "cooking" system and such, make your map testing even more painfull, while in the last versions of UT, if you wanted your work organized, it would just take a simple ini tweak and a new folder).
    From a coding point of view: I didn't even dare to try, since if mapping which was the simpler thing to do is such a pain, then I imagine the scripting.
    I quit my little experiments in the same day I started them, so for me this game really failed.

    But opinions are always opinions, and I prefer UT2004 and UT1 over this game, and with my opinion are many other players and modders which tried this game correctly in the best way possible, and you can't do anything about it, althought Epic could and failed on that request.
     
  4. UBerserker

    UBerserker old EPIC GAMES

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    1)Graphics are good, and so is the style. I'm really tired of looking at uber-colourful stuff, but on the other hand the bloom still annoys the hell out of me.
    Many retail and even custom maps are overdone though, it's so hard recognizing a bot. But in the case of other maps, such as any HOLP ones, then everything is brilliant, kicking UT2sux4 and UT asses so damn hard in that aspect.

    2)All I can say is that the UI is slow as crap. That's my only, BIG complain about it.

    3)Gametypes in UT3 are enough for me, although I still can't stand Warfare. I don't find it fun. I hated it so much in UT2k4; now in UT3 there are Orbs that make things a bit quicker and less boring (by experience), but it is still not enough. All in all, I wanted the famous Conquest gametype.
    Domination is here through a custom mod, luckily, even if I'm not really a fan of it. I don't care about Bombing Run and never will, while I'm so happy that Assault isn't there since it's one of the worst things I have ever played.
    I only play DM and CTF nowadays.

    4)Consolization is just a crappy excuse to accuse a PC game of being poor.

    5)Bots are always bots. You become a better player only by fighting against human opponents, not against aimbots.

    6)The community is making great and respectable custom packages. Especially in this month, so much stuff has been released and I don't have the time to check them all. ****.

    Verdict/Opinion: UT3 with HOLP > anything UT1.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  5. Feralidragon

    Feralidragon UT n00b coder

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    Btw Fuzz, remember you can't convert anyone to your religion, so you should really quit making such statements like: "if you don't like UT3 something is wrong with you or your hardware".
    I have hardware good enough to play this game, yet I simply don't like 90% of the game.

    By posting a poll like that and with such statements you showed us that you don't know the definition of "opinions". One thing is openning a poll to say the good things about UT3 to try to convince people to try the game, another is saying "UT3 is the Unreal Jesus and the people that don't like it are demons. You all should bow to it or die!". :lol:

    For someone that said this:
    You're trying to do exactly the opposite of 'no-provocation' and 'no-flaming' lol :lol:
     
  6. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    Wait, what?

    UT3 has far more options for advanced video settings now than UT2004 ever had, besides you could still tweak inis.
    But I don't like too many options.

    And I don't have problems with the editor, it doesn't confuse me at all, the only thing that is maybe a problem adjusting to is kismet, I mean what's wrong in still having the simple event tag system, plus other stuff.
     
  7. UBerserker

    UBerserker old EPIC GAMES

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    I agree, the editor is one of the best parts of the whole UT3 D:
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  8. Feralidragon

    Feralidragon UT n00b coder

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    Ok, maybe I missed something there, but from what I remember, relative to UEngine2 some settings I would like to tweak weren't simply there (some basic ones relative texture detail, also some levels were just 1 to 3, and it was better 5 levels). Also, I meant from a regular player view, so inis aren't exactly what a player would tweak.

    From what I remember when I played with the Ued (for several days I must say), all the resources were in a giant soup, so I wanted a texture, so I had to uncheck static meshes, terrain objects, sounds, etc, just to get textures only.
    Also they advertised some objects regarding physics, but when I tried them only half of them worked.
    Of course, for me not everything in there is bad, I really liked the additive mode (really usefull regarding terrains based maps and such), but the cooking, the playtest (which for some reason, when you made it from Ued you got always max settings apllied), all the mess when you want something from another map or from a package, damn. I mean, I don't make maps for UT2004 because I don't have enough skill to, but even not knowing fully the editor I can select 'this', open 'that', etc (and still it's not the best Ued because it crashes for some stupid reasons), and edit and create some simple maps when I want to do some experiments and some fun-for-me maps.
    When I tried to do the same in UT3 editor, it's simply a mess, although I could create a really fun simple map with vehicles and entire buildings that I could destroy with, I took too damn much time to build it, not because I was looking for stuff (which hapenned when I first openned of course, but after that), but because of the mess the Ued is. Also, I am not the kind of person that open an editor and quit by not knowing or with just a few stuff, I really quited making there my fun maps due the lack of support and flexibility of this editor, support and flexibility the previous editors always had.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  9. Lostsoul

    Lostsoul boobs

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    Saying this in regards to anything makes you ignorant and uneducated. Saying it in regards to UT3 may possibly make you borderline stupid.

    I liked the UT3 game play, but it was boring compared to the other games in the series and compared to other games that came out at the same time. Other than the game play, it pretty much sucked from the get go. Some people like me, feel that a game should be released good, not as a beta and then updated. The damage was done, I don't care that it may be better now. Stop being a zealot trying to convert people, you fail and will only irritate others.
     
  10. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    Feralidragon, did you apply latest UT3 patches? It introduced more options, not justthe basic sliders for detail.
     
  11. UBerserker

    UBerserker old EPIC GAMES

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    He applied it.
    Still, convincing/forcing someone who just doesn't like UT3 (and with any game, generally) to play it will result always in utter fail. You could do this to me with UT2k4 and I will retailate with a nuke, for example.
     
  12. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    The event/tag system is a bit unwieldy when it comes to purely conceptual constructs like a Dispatcher (UT) or ScriptedTrigger (UT200x). I agree that Kismet takes some getting used to, but I like it. It's much more flexible than the old map scripting tools, yet it is a lot easier to use than ScriptedTriggers. Some algorithmic knowledge will help understanding how exactly Kismet works, but even without that it's easy to learn.
     
  13. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but they could have left event and tag for somehting simpler in, although I never really had problem of undersatnding dispatchers, scripted trigger I don't know of, Ihave not mapped or attempted to map for UT2004.
     
  14. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    My only problem with Kismet, is knowing what each thing actually does, and in some cases, if it's actually implemented. It's not always obvious.
     
  15. Wormbo

    Wormbo Administrator Staff Member

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    Understanding dispatchers isn't hard, but figuring out what actually triggers a specific actor can be a lot of work if triggering doesn't happen though the actor's Event name. That task is definitely easier in Kismet because you simply have to look up the related actions in the Kismet sequence and can easily folow the lines back to the event nodes.
     
  16. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, actually when I worked with the marine beam waves for one mappack for Unreal (rys), using the Upak stuff (well, more like extracted and altered stuff), that was even more complicated than the dispatchers itself etc.
    On Kismet you don't have to search tons of stuff, it is all in that small editor seen, so it is in one place and you don't have to check multiple actors seperately.
     
  17. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    Why would anyone want to start such a moronic thread? This must be the 500th thread about this topic. Do we really need any more UT3 good/bad threads?


    It's OK but not that amazing. It's only good for DM and CTF, which means that other important game types have effectively been left out. Mods have been released, but what good are they if no one plays them online?

    This part has to be a joke.

    The mods are nice, but worthless since they don't get played online and the game hasn't attracted and retained the player counts needed to make those mods viable online.

    False. The User Interface was heavily consolized and you cannot use keybind taunts and communication. Also, the game lacks build-in IRC access (perhaps because consoles can't use IRC). Also, vehicles lack first person view which is similar to how most FPS games on consoles are really third person.

    The amount of custom content pales in comparison to what UT99 and UT 2004 had. Also, the file structure for the game is just awful and it makes modding and the production of custom maps unnecessarily burdensome.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  18. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    Which is why you can find 5000 players online 24/7 for UT3 and more players than for UT99 and UT2004, right? In fact, UT3 has far more players online 2 years after it's release than UT99 and UT2004 had two years after their releases, right?

    The player counts don't lie... There's a reason why UT3 was completely pwned by UT99 and UT 2004's player counts.
     
  19. UBerserker

    UBerserker old EPIC GAMES

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    Sure, after three years from its release it's normal that it has less custom content than a TEN years old game.
    Plus, I find many UT3 custom stuff to be much better in quality (HOLP, CBPs, The Ball, Prometheus, etc). Always better than quantity. Also, it requires more time to model a character or build a map, in UE3.

    Agreed on this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  20. Fuzz

    Fuzz Enigma

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    I have been reinstalling my OS today.

    Honestly, I don't feel like coming back to this forum anymore mainly because it's unproductive since most of the members here are former members of Epic forums and they are forced to go here instead because they were banned and no longer welcome over there.

    There is a huge difference between playing the game on a modern computer and a computer that merely meet the minimum system requirements. I have a computer right beside me, it meets the bare minimum on almost every point. Of course it runs UT3 after loading it several minutes and then it pauses a lot to load small things all the time while playing. There is nothing wrong with the game, it's a miracle that it works on such an out-dated computer.

    Now I load UT3 in a couple of seconds, swoop thought the menus and jump on to any server almost instantly. Smooth 60fps all the time, everything looks just perfect with max details and all.

    If this thread sucks, then it's all because of you posting in it. That is sincerely an idiot's remark. The loser's way of failing by simply reading without being able to make something out of it for themselves let alone for anyone else.

    You don't have to participate in every poll about UT3, especially if you don't even like the game. If you have another opinion you have the entire thread to express yourself. The option to vote would always be there, but now some schadenfreude in the moderator group invites people to say that this poll sucks instead of following the constructive scheme.

    The third option in the poll is the equivalent of "I fail!" and there you all have it.

    This is not just another UT3 critic's thread, this is the thread that will turn everything around. This is supposed to be better than the Epic method of dealing with the situation. They simply say that there are no critics and UT3 is great, end of discussion.

    It doesn't matter how many people dislike UT3 for the wrong reasons.

    It doesn't matter if the servers are empty because not enough people have good enough hardware to play the game comfortably.

    You are not listening because you are too busy agreeing with other morons.

    Why the outrage? A game must be in a particular way. A game series must evolve. Epic will move to consoles because people want better and better graphics even thou they can't afford the hardware to support it. UE3 was ahead of it's time when it came out unless you had console system.

    The average PC still can't match a current generation console and you never hear the end of PS3 cooking requests.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009

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