Some more sniper rifles & assault rifles

[Dr.Dase]

IMO we don't need any more H&K weapons, sure i like H&K, but there are other weapons in widespread use. FN FAL and FN FNC are VERY common, at least the FN FAL, it's been exported to more than 90 countries world wide. I'd really like to see more, "commoner" weapons, not just commando and spec ops guns, like the M4 and the G36c, not many armies use them at all....i still like them, and agree they should be put into the game, but i'd like to see some more common, standard issue, lowdown and dirty weapons, that aren't state-of-the-art, modern, compact, composite material and generally expensive and good. (i like 'em old

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

Dase (about why people like the M4): A 14.5 inch barrel is definately not too short to be useful- it may not provide the same punch as the 20 inch M16 barrel, but the M4 is still considered to have a max effective range of 600 meters and is slated to replace the M16 completely. The M4 is a very versatile and lightweight weapon (even lighter than many MP5s when unloaded), and deserves to be the object of so many affections.

I personally don't like bullpups, because you can't switch from right-handed to left (or vise versa) quickly (without getting hit in the face by brass), which is usefull in CQB when sidestepping around corners. If you turn a corner to the right with the gun at your right shoulder, an enemy standing there will have a line of fire to you long before you have a shot. If the gun is at your left shoulder, your gun's barrel pointing right at him will be one of the first things the enemy sees.

_______________________
In Orwell's hell, a terror era comin through,
but this little brother, is watching you too.

 

[Dr.Dase]

Good point, but i wouldnä't use a combat rifle in CQB anyway, an SMG is easier to handle, but it's not always you have that choice.

 

[Angel Of Death]

I would rather see weapons that are of better design rather than just because they are widely used (FN FAL, AK-47, Glocks). Just because they are widely used doesn't mean that they are the best. It could mean they are cheap, they WERE the best, or many other reasons.

I have nothing against the old weapons because some of them, IMO, are better than any new ones (M1A1 Thompson as compared to the UMP... I've never seen a more pathetic .45 SMG than the UMP).

Best of the Best

 

[oblin]

AK 47 vs AK100+

AK47 has a way better desing than AK100+, partly becuase of the wood finish, instead of solid metal. I'm gonna start a poll about this.

btw, i dot realy cosider FA-MAS a usefull rifle

 

[Dr.Dase]

The FA MAS is a remarkable weapon, simply because it was one of the first bullpup rifles to be designed and actually issued to troops. Plus, it's damn beautiful

The AK10x series is not solid metal , they use a LOT of plastic parts, to reduce weight. Wood is heavier, the AK47 is pretty hefty, but the AK10x series is lightweight.

 

[ShakKen]

Dr.Dase: Bueno!

/Hugs Dr.Dase

oblin: Don't consider the FAMAS a useful rifle?!?! K*nyo!

/Smacks oblin

 

[Ghost_Bear]

G3,FAMAS, Steyr Aug,...

I would really like to see the G3 cuz it has anawesome punch and on full auto it sprays badder than even a MAC10 or UZI,loads of fun IMHO.

The M4 suckz bad compared to the bullpub rifles you are not reading Janes do you? Longer barrel = more precision and more controlability, but handling as easy as an smg. If youwant an old style rifle take a G36 (K,C,LSV with CMAG) It´s way better than cheap built M4s and features a Red Dot/3.5 Optical combination which would be very interesting to see in Inf (the animation/handling).

WhenI remember right the FAMAS has a very high ROF(but i could be wrong didn´t looked after this rifle much,yet), if it´s right than it would be anawesome CQB weapon but the clip is gone yeryyyy fast.

AK47 is also nice cuz it features a "not so good" accuracy with a very low recoil cuz of the mentioned 7.62*39 + the very heavy (compared to other rifels ) woodenparts. The AK74 (5.45* IMHO 39, but I´am not sure right now)also has a superb recoil compensation,but for other reasons (look at whatit employs at the end of the barrel).

I would love to see the Steyr AUG with an option to equip other barrels infield ( it´s very easy with this weapon,even a "Gefreiter" could manage this lol).I think barrels of choice would be LMG/Normal/SniperMatchGrade. Hmm lookslike a super weapon so forget it but the animation would be cute for sure.

BTW thanks for german flecktarn very much.

Yours sincerely,

Ghost Bear

Looking forwardtosee H&K LMG11, H&K MSG90 (w/s)and the partly H&K OICW (the 5.56 is actually a G36, nice or not?)

GSG9 owns you [ IQ of an average german citizen: 100 ; non-classical secondary school: 104 ; classical secondary school: 111 ; average GSG9 Member: 112 ]

 

[Angel Of Death]

FA-MAS

High ROF, tons of attachments, what more could you want in an assault rifle?

Seriously, I hate the Steyr AUG. It really isn't that good of a rifle (BTW, I'm pretty sure that bullpups aren't very accurate). The FA-MAS is a much better rifle and is a lot prettier than the AUG . People only like the Steyr AUG cause they saw it in RS and CS. But then again, RS had the SA80 and CS had the MAC-10. What does that tell you about their knowledge of good firearms?(I don't mind the SA80, but it doesn't even work!).

To close I'd just like to say that the FA-MAS rules.

BTW... Nice work on the M16 in 2.85!

Best of the Best

 

[ShakKen]

In all fairness, the AUG and the SA-80 are decent rifles. Yes I said SA-80 since they've all been corrected at Nottingham.

The FAMAS F1 is the first true bullpup AR to enter service, and as such, GIAT has had quite a bit more time to improve the weapon. The base design was already superior to all it's British and Austrian counterparts. After seeing combat in Chad, Lebanon, Bosnia and the Gulf War, it's proven itself with an excellent track record for useability and reliability.

As it stands now, the FAMAS G2 has been tried, proved and improved quite nicely. Apart from the slightly soggy trigger on the early rifles, complaints about this rifle are few and far between. An excellent design that has the edge over the competition.

Heck, it was the only bullpup that was in the running for the NATO STANAG weapon.

 

[Col.Sanders]

Sorry, Shakken:

The G3 is not an assault rifle, it's an automatic rifle, in the same class as the old BAR and the M-14.

For a weapon to be an assault rifle it must:
1) be a rifle (rifled barrel, shoulder-fired)
2) be select-fire (semi- and full-auto)
3) fire a cartridge between the .30-06/.308/7.62x54R and a pistol round in power and size
4) use a large (20 or more) capacity detachable magazine.

The First Assault rifle was the StG-43/44's in WW2, the Sturmgewers. It had all these traits. Then came the AK-47, almost a direct knock-off. (don't care if it was in parallel development, the StG was used first). These were first-generation assault rifles, using full-diameter bullets (7.62mm, 7.92mm) and shorter cartridge cases (39mm, 33mm). Smaller cartridges gave less velocity, not needed for short-range firefights, and also reduced recoil so full-auto fire was controllable.
Second gen is the M-16 and other non-bullpup 5.56mm and 5.45mm rifles. Lighter bullets have flatter trajectory than 7.62's, and can demonstrate better wounding capacity and armor penetration.
Third gen is the AUG and FAMAS-- bullpups, finally doing something usefull with the wasted space behind the pistol grip.
All three generations adhere to the pattern laid out by the Stg-43/44.

BTW: the CETME 7.62x51mm rifle is an Assault Rifle, but it's nearly identical derivative G3 is not. Extra points for the first person to tell me why.

Back on topic, I agree with the suggestions above: the PSG-1 should be more powerful, and maybe we could get a 7.62mm non-sniper rifle. Possible solution: make PSG-1 into MSG-90, and make scope a selectable option.

[This message was edited by Col.Sanders on Mar 14, 2001 at 12:47.]

 

[Nikonov]

Bullpups RULE!!!!

No seriously even the Russians developed Bullpup Assault rifles! Find at "www.securityarms.com" America even made a bullpup M14. In all the countries i know of that have experimental/production bullpups are Israel,America,Austria,Australia(both Austria and Australia use the Stery Aug),Russia and i bet you 10k there are more out there!

cant see online servers HELP!

 

[The_Fur]

Since when do smaller bullets have a flatter trajectory? the reason most modern day rifles use smaller bullets is the lower reoil and the ability to carry more ammo. The reason snipers use mainly larger caliber rifles is the flatter trajectory and longer range of the larger bullets.

The expetion to this rule is the 4.7mm caseless ammo found in the G11, it has a flat trajectory to about 300m which is supposedly comparable to the .300 winchester.

 

[ShakKen]

Col.Sanders: For your information, the classification of 'rifle' has little to do with the fact that the barrel is rifled. Take for example the Steyr IWS2000 Anti Material Rifle. It's a smoothbore.

Nor does magazine capacity. The Belgian M49 Assault rifle for example has a 10 round magazine capacity.

The G3 meets all the critereon for being an assault rifle. It's a derivitive of the CETME C3 which was a development from the StG 45.

FYI, the CETME itself has the classification of 'battle rifle' im some parts of the world.

Like as not, assault rifle IS an appropriate term to refer to the G3.

 

[Col.Sanders]

It does not matter what "some parts of the world" call anything. The USA refers to semi-automatic-only copies of military weapons as "assault rifles" in their federal laws. That does not make them assault rifles.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
[*]An assault rifle---forget the AP Style Book definition, its dead wrong---is a reduced power rifle caliber, selective- fire, reasonably compact weapon smaller in size than a full- caliber rifle, capable of a reasonable degree of accuracy out to 400 yards. Generally, an assault rifle accepts a magazine of a least 20 rounds. One can construe certain full caliber rifles to meet this specification, but submachine guns can only loosely border on any definition of the true assault rifle.
http://www.totse.com/en/politics/right_to_keep_and_bear_arms/arifle2.html

[*]Thus, as the United States Defense Department's Defense Intelligence Agency book Small Arms Identification and Operation Guide explains, "assault rifles" are "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."
http://www.shadeslanding.com/firearms/assault.weapon.html#IC
[/quote]

Go out and search for "definition of assault rifle" on google. These are the first few I found.
http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+assault+rifle

There are even discussions of how the G3 and M1 carbine relate to this definition. It's not my definition, it's the DODUSA's.

The CETME-B *is* an assault rifle because it was intended to use a version of the 7.62x51mm NATO round which was dimensionally identical, but lower-powered. The lighter round was for general use, and in emergencies, the full-power NATO which was used in their machineguns would fit, fire, and function.
7.62x51mm CETME. 112 grain bullet at 2,450 to 2,500 fps (42,000 psi)
7.62x51mm NATO. 147 grain bullet at 2,700 to 2,800 fps (50,000 psi)
The G3 was orginially a licsensed copy of the CETME-C, which was only supposed to fire 7.62 NATO.

My definition as to magazine capacity was badly worded. I should have said "generally" has 20+ rounds, because of the nature of detachable mags, one of any capacity can be made and inserted. I concede that point, but note the original MP 43/44 had a 30-round mag, the AK-47 a 30, and the M-16 20 and 30. However, the detachable part is immutable.

Secondly, over short distances, smaller bullets at lighter weights have flatter trajectories. Compare a .44 magnum and a 5.56mm: they have the same kinetic energy at the muzzle, but the 5.56mm is flat enough to hit men at 300m by holding a few inches high. The .44 bleeds energy too fast. The 5.56mm has a better trajectory than the 7.62x39mm

[This message was edited by Col.Sanders on Mar 15, 2001 at 15:10.]

 

[Tac]

I would like to see the GALIL in this game. Its a monster of a gun.

A G2 would be good too.

Any plans to add an M1 Garand rifle or Mauser WW2 weapons? a WW2 mod would be real cool.

"Peace, Faith, Virtue"

 

[Nikonov]

WW2 mod

Dont they have one out? I think it was called 1944 or something. People Say it has texture problems! (I bet it does I mean almost every mod on WW2 didnt work cuz of textures!)

 

[Angel Of Death]

Day Of Defeat for Half-Life is a good WW2 mod.

Best of the Best

 

[ShakKen]

Col.Sanders: That's all fine and well but still a moot point.

Basing classification of weapon on cartridge power is the craziest thing I've heard thus far. So I suppose if I loaded up a G3 with subsonic rounds only then it would be considered an assault rifle? Utterly upsurd.

So I suppose that IMI has been wasting time building their 7.62 series of Galil AR and ARM. My my, what does 'AR' stand for anyway? Lol!

As I said before, like as not, assault rifle is still a perfectly useable and nonetheless correct term to refer to the G3.

 

[The_Fur]

somebody explain to me how dod is good. It's a pos realism mod, the guns are fake the Gewehre42 is a semi automatic rifle but it fires almost as slow as the springfield, it still features the same old quake still BS, only with more strafing to make up for bunnyhopping, it has CROSSHARIRS, NO recoil. Same old TFC/FA randomness to the bullets etc etc etc. For the complete report on the fakeness of dod check out <A HREF="http://www.rlgaming.com/rev_dod.htm" TARGET=_blank>my review

Reviewer, Contributing Columnist Real Life Gaming</A>